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How are all these Worldhoppers Getting Around?

Magestar

By Magestar
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Magestar

Magestar

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Right now, as far as I have found, we know that there are several world-hoppers. So I was wondering how they get around.  I have not found anywhere on the forums where this topic is discussed, so I decided it would be best if I made one.  

 

    As I see it, there are about four ways that World-Hoppers could be getting around.  The first would be some manner of FTL.  I have seen this theory put out there, however I have yet to see any world with a way of making that happen.  Also, Hoid’s travel seems to be instantaneous. 

    The second would be some sort of world-gate.  This theory implies that each world has a way of getting to it, from every other world.  I do not know how likely this is.  In WoR there are Oathgates, which allow anyone on Roshar to get to Urithiru.  I see no reason why these could not reach across solar systems, if powered by enough Stormlight.  However, how one would even find the planets to put them on is beyond me.

    And the third theory that I have is that the teleportation is connected to shards.  On every world that there is a shard, there is a means of getting there.  Maybe the shards have enough power to move people? Can you hijack a shards power enough to do this?  This theory has more questions then answers. 

    My final theory is that it is all wrapped around Hoid. This means we are back to square one.  Hoid is still doing stuff we have no idea how he is doing, and other people are just riding his coattails.

 

    I would love to hear any theories I have missed, as well as any ideas on the theories I have put forth.  This is my first topic, so feel free to correct my mistakes, and shatter my fragile ego.

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Jondesu

Jondesu

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Have you read Mistborn: Secret History? Spoilers in case you haven't:

The one way we know for sure they do it is via Shardpools, which let you move between the Physical and Cognitive Realms. We watch Hoid do that with the Well of Ascension, which is Preservation's Shardpool. We also know he did that on Roshar because of Rock's story, which means there's a Shardpool in the oceans on the Horneater Peaks.

jW

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Rasarr

Rasarr

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Sadly, I have not.  I read the spoiler anyway.  You say these things exist on those two worlds. Do they exist on any others?  Also, does anyone know if there are any other ways to get around I missed?

 

The Shardpools exist on every world there is (or was: see the Hoed pool in Elantris) a Shard on, so all major Shardworlds should be accessible to worldhoppers. Regarding minor Shardworlds, like Threnody or First of the Sun, I'm not certain - I'm guessing they have their own perpendicularities (Hoid's term for place you can hop into to switch between Realms) where their "native" magic pools.

 

Or they use some leftover Elsecalling fabrials from the first Knights Radiant.

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KidWayne

KidWayne

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World-hoppers are basically travelling through Shadesmar (a.k.a. the Cognitive Realm). Each major "Shardworld" has one or more ways of entering Shadesmar through either magic or a "shardpool" which is a location in the Physical Realm where a shard's investiture collects.

Someone who knows what they are doing can use a shardpool (a.k.a. perpendicularity) to physically enter the Cognitive Realm. Since empty space that is devoid of thinking creatures is compressed in the Cognitive Realm, a world-hopper physically travelling through the Cognitive Realm can travel across solar systems in a matter of days (or maybe weeks, we don't have solid answers on the speed at which one can traverse distances in Shadesmar yet).

We have seen shardpools in the Stormlight Archive (Roshar), Mistborn (Scadrial), and Elantris (Sel). We haven't seen them on Threnody (which supposedly has no shard), Nalthis, or Taldain; although, they presumably exist on Nalthis and Taldain since these planets/"Shardworlds" are believed to be home to living shards.

Addendum: I got beat to the punch twice before I finished my post. I guess that's what I get for being too picky/slow. Apologies for being redundant.

Edited by KidWayne
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Magestar

Magestar

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This was apparently not as big a question as I had thought...  <_<   

 

Does this mean that Hoid got to Scadrial through the pits of hathsin?  He could not have done it through the Well of Ascension, because in the context of the book, he was looking for that. (Also, if he was traveling through the Cognitive realm, how could he NOT find the well of ascension?)

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Jondesu

Jondesu

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This was apparently not as big a question as I had thought... <_<

Does this mean that Hoid got to Scadrial through the pits of hathsin? He could not have done it through the Well of Ascension, because in the context of the book, he was looking for that. (Also, if he was traveling through the Cognitive realm, how could he NOT find the well of ascension?)

He's used both. He used the Pits until Kelsier destroyed them, then he used the Well. He knew where it was, he wasn't looking for it, according to Secret History. That was a change Brandon had to make.

jW

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Shardbearer

Shardbearer

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Secret History:

 

Actually, Kelsier destroyed the Pits, including the perpendicularity that existed there. When Brandon wrote Secret History, he realized that he couldn't have Hoid looking for the Well, since he would have had to use the Well to get to Scadrial.

 

So this was retconned so that the cannon now is Hoid wasn't looking for the Well, he was doing... other stuff in Terris.

 

And it would take far longer than weeks to cross between worlds on foot. Kelsier took weeks (possibly months) to get to a distant portion of Scadrial in the Cognitive Realm. At an almost constant run. In fact, from the timeline it seems he spends most of a year traveling to and back from the IRE fortress, which is still on Scadrial.

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Titan Arum

Titan Arum

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BrightVoid, we have seem them on another planet:

 

Secret History Spoiler:

They are Elantrians from Sel. We know this based upon their description and that Ire is the Aon for "Age". We have recent WoB that says they are very, very, very, very, very old. Also, the Dor is locked in the Cognitive realm and is location-dependent. The Ire have discovered away to use some type of conduit of this power and bring it Scadrial in what seem to be similar to a pipeline of some type.

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Khyrindor

Khyrindor

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A note on the Perpendicularities: I think I saw a WoB that said that they are just massive gatherings of Investiture, or places where a lot of Investiture flows through. Usually this means Shards, but it seems to suggest independence from Shards and more a dependence on Investiture. This explains why Jasnah is able to enter it as well, get enough Investiture flowing though you, and you you can act like a Perpendicularity.

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Titan Arum

Titan Arum

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Based on the WoB stating that they're really old, I'd argue that they are pre-Reod Elantrians. However, we do not have confirmation on this from Brandon directly. Additionally, the Ire use Devotion's name directly whereas nobody in Elantris ever mentions the names of the Shards. Thus, if the Ire know this, maybe we can assume they lived on Sel prior to the Splintering of Devotion and Dominion? 

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Jondesu

Jondesu

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Based on the WoB stating that they're really old, I'd argue that they are pre-Reod Elantrians. However, we do not have confirmation on this from Brandon directly. Additionally, the Ire use Devotion's name directly whereas nobody in Elantris ever mentions the names of the Shards. Thus, if the Ire know this, maybe we can assume they lived on Sel prior to the Splintering of Devotion and Dominion?


It seems likely, but do remember that Elantris is by far the oldest of the books, and the earliest chronologically that they could still meet that criteria potentially even if they are post-Reod Elantrians. I think the biggest argument for them being older than that is that we've been told anything in the Congnitive Realm on Sel could be ripped to shreds by the Dor, which makes it really hard to Worldhop from there.

jW

 

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Magestar

Magestar

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I think the biggest argument for them being older than that is that we've been told anything in the Congnitive Realm on Sel could be ripped to shreds by the Dor, which makes it really hard to Worldhop from there.

jW

 

 

Does that mean that it is also equally hard to Worldhop to there?  We have seen Hoid there, I believe.  Also, does this mean that other forms of magic would not work well there? 

 

A note on the Perpendicularities: I think I saw a WoB that said that they are just massive gatherings of Investiture, or places where a lot of Investiture flows through. Usually this means Shards, but it seems to suggest independence from Shards and more a dependence on Investiture. This explains why Jasnah is able to enter it as well, get enough Investiture flowing though you, and you you can act like a Perpendicularity.

 

 

This would still likely only work on planets with shards, as they (typically) power magic/investiture?  There are also supposedly more natural ways to power investiture, but I have not been able to find any definitive explanations on how.

Edited by Voidus
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Jondesu

Jondesu

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Does that mean that it is also equally hard to Worldhop to there? We have seen Hoid there, I believe. Also, does this mean that other forms of magic would not work well there?

Yes, that's what I've understood (traveling in the Cognitive realm is what's dangerous, not the process of entering or leaving. I suspect Hoid had either a way to protect himself or another method of worldhopping that didn't require risking that.

Since most Shardic magic comes from the Spiritual realm instead of the Cognitive, I doubt they would be affected. It's possible there would be interference with some other magic systems though.

jW

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Magestar

Magestar

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Maybe it takes more Investiture than Nightblood has.

Do we have an estimate of how much Investiture it takes to create a perpendicularity, or shardpools? I'm guessing more Investiture than 1k Breaths gives.

 

Nightblood has 1000 breaths.  I do not know if it can act as a perpindicularity, as it has not done so in any books. (Yet.)

However, in WoR, we see what is almost definitely Nighblood being handed to Szeth.  This could mean thatit was used to get to Roshar, or it could just mean that it was brought there.

   Also, as a comparitor, if it takes more than 1000 breaths to enter the Cognitive realm, and Jasnah/Shallan both did it with a very small amount of Stormlight, that means that Stormlight is vastly more powerful than Breaths. (It would also men that it is REALLY easy to make Nightbloods on Roshar? Or just explain Shardblades. I might be way off base here.)

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