masaru

Mistborn: House War board game officially announced

51 posts in this topic

I think you guys are discounting the amount of Noble Politicking that happens in the first book. One of Vin's primary missions is to infiltrate the Noble society and gain information while helping to incite a house war. Pulling a heist is the central theme, sure, but Noble dickery is a major theme, and one worth exploring, I think.

 

Now for me to get distracted: it might have been interesting if House Renoux were one of the playable houses, with some slightly different mechanics or win conditions... Hm, maybe that wouldn't work, since the other players would know their agenda. A randomized hidden agenda system? That would add a layer of complexity which might turn some people off, but might be a good optional/house/expansion rule.

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i really like the art, but i am not interested in the game per se. I am a very straightforward guy, same goes for my friends and tabletop gamers companions, a game of intrigue would be totally wasted on us. plus, transoceanic shipping fees are no joke.

So, I wonder if is there a way I could see the art without buying the game?

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I mean... it's hard to argue with the big man himself on how the novel is classified. Maybe he's approaching it more from a characterization aspect, where they're building a team of specialists to accomplish a specific goal. But the team's goal is never to steal the atium:

 

 

 

 

Their stated goal was to overthrow the Empire. They could loot the remains of it once they did so to get atium, but they were not pulling a 'heist' to get the atium.

 

But, anyways, this is all going to say, what kind of a board game would be the best reflection of the feel of the novels? Competing thieving gangs wouldn't be any closer to the actual story than playing as the Noble Houses on the other side of the conflict. So, what would it be, then? A cooperative game, like Pandemic? Definitely no traitor mechanic - that doesn't happen until Book 2, and he winds not being that great of a traitor anyways. In the books, no one is working at cross-purposes, but they do have their own separate goals and objectives. Worker placement sounds like it might work... you have assign crew members to certain tasks, and they pull in resources (intel, troops, equipment, etc). Ooh, maybe like Betrayal at the House on the Hill, there's a secret objective that no one knows until the final turns of the game (we're actually starting a new religion to overthrow TLR), so you need to preserve enough flexibility. But it's very tricky to balance player-vs-the-game situations (Fantasy Flight had some serious delays with their Star Wars TCG, since they couldn't balance it), so that might have driven the game designers to find an appropriate venue for the players to work against each other - the Noble Houses.

 

I'm getting distracted. What were we talking about? Whether or not this is a faithful adaptation of Mistborn? I don't think it's necessary for the game to replicate the exact experience of the book. Just like books need to be adapted to fit in films, with characters cut and plotlines streamlined, the book needs to be adapted to fit into a board game, as well, and I feel that playing the 'other side' is a perfectly valid way to fit the world of Mistborn into a board game environment.

I will only make this post, and then I will stop because I do not want to continue to distract from the main point of the post (sorry about that by the way!). I take those quotes to say "we are going to pull a con on the final empire (like oceans eleven), to get the lord ruler out of the way (like how they got the owner of the hotel out of the way). Then once the rebellion works, we grab half the atium, the biggest score in our lives (like the vault in the gambling hotel in oceans eleven). Just because there are a whole bunch of additional steps to get there, they are still ultimately robbing the lord ruler. Pulling a con to get it, is no different than actually physically stealing it. But this is more semantics, and the reason I wrote what I did is I can be picky with terms and such. I am personally on the fence regarding the game. It is an interesting concept, but at the same time I also wish it was more crew related. Ironically enough the reason I will not be backing it but probably buying it one day has nothing to do with this at all. I will not back it, because I did not like how Crafty Games handled their dice kickstarter at all. So I do not have much faith in them for this kickstart. If this kickstart gets off the ground, I will be purchasing the game when it hits stores more for the collector's sense than actually playing it. That's why I have been silent for most of this thread.  

 

I think you guys are discounting the amount of Noble Politicking that happens in the first book. One of Vin's primary missions is to infiltrate the Noble society and gain information while helping to incite a house war. Pulling a heist is the central theme, sure, but Noble dickery is a major theme, and one worth exploring, I think.

 

Now for me to get distracted: it might have been interesting if House Renoux were one of the playable houses, with some slightly different mechanics or win conditions... Hm, maybe that wouldn't work, since the other players would know their agenda. A randomized hidden agenda system? That would add a layer of complexity which might turn some people off, but might be a good optional/house/expansion rule.

Again, sorry to nitpick, but the infiltration is with the aim to pull a con. Just because an aspect of the con includes politicking does not mean that is what the book is about. But I probably should not even commented on your post, because at this point I am beating a dead horse, you did admit the heist is a central theme, and I was not stating what I did to say that it wasn't worth exploring just because it is an aspect. I am kind of on the fence. So basically this part of my post was utterly pointless lol. Sorry!  :wacko:

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Yeah, the Allomancy dice haven't inspired much confidence in me, either. The noticeable differences between the 10 regular dice and the bonus Aluminum die and the off-center symbols on some dice are a little concerning, but the big one in my mind is how they intentionally hid the black mark at the injection point in all their promotional pictures and in the product packaging. Since the Allomancy Dice are all about the looks (if you just need functional dice, a pack of 36 dice costs half as much), I found it really jarring that they've tried to gloss over a noticeable blemish like that. (Figuratively gloss over, of course.)

 

I didn't see the Allomancy Dice Kickstarter until after it had already closed (missed it by that much), and I haven't actually supported anything on Kickstarter before, but is it normal to not list price amounts for stretch goals beyond the first one? I would expect that those would be tied to economy-of-scale concerns, and once they cross the threshold of making enough copies they'd be able to afford nicer production options. And the stretch goals would be set by how many games they would need to produce, so they should already know what they need to reach. But by not listing them, it seems like they could 'move the goalposts' if the project is getting a good turnout, and they're using stretch goals exclusively as a method to generate interest. (Which is their prerogative, of course. But the lack of visibility is still a turn-off to me.)

 

Maybe I'm reading some bad motivations into Crafty Games' actions because of the Mistborn RPG, too. The core book and the Alloy of Law book are okay, but I feel like I wasted my money on the Terris and Skaa books, which are mostly fluffy setting books that don't provide much meat to the game system. (Next Alloy book will have Bands of Mourning stuff in it, which should really give some really cool mechanics.) But I'm just about where you are, Pathfinder; since I'm big into board games, I'm gonna give this to them as my last shot. If it turns out poorly, I may have to refrain from giving any more of my business to them (maybe not even purchasing retail copies). It's about time they knock one out of the park (Brandon wrote, what, 13 books before he got published?), so I hope this game is good and I'm worrying over nothing. But if they produce another issue-plagued product, then I'd hope Team Sanderson would investigate another company. (Maybe let them keep Mistborn, but give someone else Stormlight.)

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Yeah, the Allomancy dice haven't inspired much confidence in me, either. The noticeable differences between the 10 regular dice and the bonus Aluminum die and the off-center symbols on some dice are a little concerning, but the big one in my mind is how they intentionally hid the black mark at the injection point in all their promotional pictures and in the product packaging. Since the Allomancy Dice are all about the looks (if you just need functional dice, a pack of 36 dice costs half as much), I found it really jarring that they've tried to gloss over a noticeable blemish like that. (Figuratively gloss over, of course.)

 

I didn't see the Allomancy Dice Kickstarter until after it had already closed (missed it by that much), and I haven't actually supported anything on Kickstarter before, but is it normal to not list price amounts for stretch goals beyond the first one? I would expect that those would be tied to economy-of-scale concerns, and once they cross the threshold of making enough copies they'd be able to afford nicer production options. And the stretch goals would be set by how many games they would need to produce, so they should already know what they need to reach. But by not listing them, it seems like they could 'move the goalposts' if the project is getting a good turnout, and they're using stretch goals exclusively as a method to generate interest. (Which is their prerogative, of course. But the lack of visibility is still a turn-off to me.)

 

Maybe I'm reading some bad motivations into Crafty Games' actions because of the Mistborn RPG, too. The core book and the Alloy of Law book are okay, but I feel like I wasted my money on the Terris and Skaa books, which are mostly fluffy setting books that don't provide much meat to the game system. (Next Alloy book will have Bands of Mourning stuff in it, which should really give some really cool mechanics.) But I'm just about where you are, Pathfinder; since I'm big into board games, I'm gonna give this to them as my last shot. If it turns out poorly, I may have to refrain from giving any more of my business to them (maybe not even purchasing retail copies). It's about time they knock one out of the park (Brandon wrote, what, 13 books before he got published?), so I hope this game is good and I'm worrying over nothing. But if they produce another issue-plagued product, then I'd hope Team Sanderson would investigate another company. (Maybe let them keep Mistborn, but give someone else Stormlight.)

Ooooooo yeah. I am completely with you with that. And then on top of that when people pointed it out and asked politely, they were ignored. I had to do a follow up comment and complain on their facebook, before they "explained" what happened. They claimed that once the kickstart was backed, they weren't checking. They didn't think there was going to be any follow up questions. That is plain and simple horrible customer service. One backer said that that is just the nature of kickstarter, but the whole point of the website is you are investing in a product you believe in. The individuals you are investing in do have a duty to keep their investors informed in a timely manner. So that utterly disappointed me. 

 

From what I have seen, typically a kickstarter will start without stretch goals (though some do start with them). Once an interest is gauged, they start building stretch goals to gain more pledges and interest. Basically as long as you back enough to get the product itself, you automatically get every single stretch goal. The stretch goals are just to get new people to hop in and get that number higher. The problem is, Crafty decided to cut corners and do the molds out in China. This ultimately is not a total problem, but this was not announced till after the dice was already 3 or more months late. And they only notified us after the delivery date passed, three times. Lateness is fine, it happens, and in fact happens a lot on kickstarter. but let the client base know. Don't make them poke, prod and complain before you explain. 

 

Sorry for the rant, just the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth, which is a shame. Who knows, maybe they learned their lesson from the last kickstart and will do better. I certainly hope so  :unsure:

Edited by Pathfinder
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Well, that's that - fully funded less than 5 hours after posting. (Not that there were any concerns about reaching the initial level).

Now we see how far we go along the stretch goals. If it stays at $15,000/level, then we'll need $240,000.

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1 minute ago, Pagerunner said:

Well, that's that - fully funded less than 5 hours after posting. (Not that there were any concerns about reaching the initial level).

Now we see how far we go along the stretch goals. If it stays at $15,000/level, then we'll need $240,000.

In the comment feed they do mention that not all of the stretch goals are at intervals of $15,000, some of them are smaller.

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Woohoo! Plenty of stretch goals left, though. They said in the comments that not all of the stretch goals are +$15k after the last, I'm guessing less than $240,000 to get all of them.

 

Also they added an in-depth review by an independent game reviewer (Undead Viking) about halfway down the page.

Edited by Tellingdwar
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Reached the first stretch goal. I haven't had so much fun watching a number slowly increment since Cookie Clicker!

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It beggars belief that adding another House costs $15k a pop. It's an oversized card. I backed this cause I like this kind of game, but the money they are asking for is extremely inflated, judging by other KS that are similar in size and components.

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I thought that, too, but it's not $15k in net profit, it's $15k in gross profit. Since costs aren't necessarily linear (or, even if they are, they have a y-intercept), the extra $15k isn't all going towards manufacturing the house sheets - most of it is probably going towards making the games and books that people are purchasing, and as the profits get larger, they take some of that money to make the extras.

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You can read the rules now! I wish they'd included more card examples, though.

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So Brandon spoke a little bit about the game over on the boardgames subreddit:

Quote

I'm not the board gamer in the company, unfortunately. I play Magic the Gathering, which takes basically all my disposable game time. (I've noticed that many people either tend to be like my brother, and enjoy rotating through a large stock of games, or they play something like Magic and that's basically it.)

My agent, however, loves board games, and so do several of my assistants. So they were the ones advocating for this to happen.

They played the game, and offered their input. My main role was talking about the story, making the game feel right, and that sort of thing. We saw early on that the game was going to be about politics and the houses, and I was the one who pushed them (if they were going to go this direction) to focus on the idea of a house war, rather than telling people "Play as a Mistborn!" I really like how it turned out in that regard in particular. I think it gives the right feel for what you're getting.

(As an aside, one of the games I have played was the Discworld board game, which disappointed me because it didn't FEEL like discworld. I didn't laugh enough, didn't do silly things. The game was well designed, but it promised the wrong thing to me.)

So this was my part in it. I am not enough of an expert at the genre, however, to tell you how it compares to other board games. One of my stipulations for them doing a game, in fact, was that they get someone who has a proven track record in the business to do the design--as I knew this was a product where I couldn't do quality control personally (like I did with the RPG.)

 

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Kicktraq has enough data for a projection. They're currently saying between $256K and $460K. If the stretch goals keep the patterns:

  • House Urbain 150K
  • Spot Varnishing 157.5K
  • House Buvidas 162.5K
  • More Named Personalities 170K
  • Sculpted Pawns 185K
  • Small Upgrade A 192.5K
  • Big Upgrade A 207.5K
  • Small Upgrade B 215K
  • Large Upgrade B 230K
  • Small Upgrade C 237.5K
  • Large Upgrade C 252.5K

We'll easily hit everything, and then unlock at least 6 additional items (be they more houses, upgraded components, or additional cards). I think the last count for sleeves had 11 unused ones if all the currently visible stretch goals were met.. that would mean no more than 5 additional Houses (since each would come with 2 Named Personalities). They couldn't even introduce a third Named Personality per house, since there'd be 12 Houses already unlocked.. Unless they decided to make an extra set of 50 Portrait sleeves available somehow.

More likely, I'd suspect they'd slow down the stretch goals drastically after they reached the Sculpted Pawns. Maybe throw in a copy of an expansion at a $50K increment. (They said they had ideas, but didn't want to air them out, yet.)

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Thanks for that analysis. Keep in mind, though, that Kicktraq doesn't really account for the middle-to-end slowdown of most Kickstarters. Granted there will be a big surge at the end when the 48 hour notice kicks in, but Kicktraq just extrapolates based on the current rate. 

Things I'd like to see:

- Player mats: for organizing your cards and tokens

- More Problem cards: for more replayability

- Campaign mode: A sequence of Problems that construct a narrative, tied with a new card, Events, that help take you through the story of the first book.

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1 hour ago, masaru said:

Thanks for that analysis. Keep in mind, though, that Kicktraq doesn't really account for the middle-to-end slowdown of most Kickstarters. Granted there will be a big surge at the end when the 48 hour notice kicks in, but Kicktraq just extrapolates based on the current rate. 

The Trend page extrapolates based on current rate, and that's currently above the high point of the Projections. But the Projections are a little more complicated, as explained here. They include long-term declines in rate, and a 3-day end-of-project rush. It's far from perfect (but that's why we have Walgreens), but based on what I'm seeing, I feel pretty good about our chances of seeing new stretch goals.

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Wow, that's interesting. Had no idea they included declines and the end of project gain. Very cool.

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Well I backed at the All-In level as I still don't own a copy of the Mistborn RPG. This seemed like a good way to get everything available at a discounted price and seems like the way to go. As an adult with expendable income but limited gaming circles, I just hope I can find people to play with. I also got an extra add-on of sleeves to have spares in case of tearage.

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This seems to be as good a place as any to post this. I have spoken with Crafty Games and with my friendly neighborhood game store and gotten approval from both, so here goes.

 

I had the great privilege of being one of the playtesters for this game. It's a lot of fun to play and does a great job at capturing the scheming aspect of the noble houses in Mistborn. I imagine there are a lot of you out there who would love the chance to give the game a try without needing to wait until next April, and if you live in or near Salt Lake City, UT, here's your chance:

 

This coming Saturday, July 2nd, at noon I will be demoing Mistborn: House War using my playtest copy of the game. This will be happening at Game Night Games in Salt Lake City, UT. More details can be found here: http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php…

 

I look forward to scheming with (and plotting against) some of you! We'll take pictures and post about our experience afterwards. 

 

-----

 

ALSO, for a few months now we've been successfully running a Mistborn Adventure Game campaign at the same game store. We're at a point where it would be easy to add more players (and split into multiple groups if needs be), so if anyone in the area would like to try out the RPG, here's your chance. And to make things even sweeter, I have a few sets of allomancy dice left to give to players who join our group, including the Kickstarter exclusive dice (Lerasium, Duralumin, and Electrum) to give away to players who join our group! So if you missed out on the allomancy dice kickstarter, here's a good chance to get ahold of the exclusive dice! More info here: http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php…

 

If you have any questions, I encourage you to ask them in the respective threads that I linked above, though I'll be checking here frequently, too.

Edited by Herowannabe
July 2nd, not June 2nd. This coming weekend.
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This new add-on doesn't seem like a great idea... I don't expect it will get too many takers, at $40 for new tokens (although they look like really nice tokens). Unless the game's getting a ton of use, I don't think it needs these high-quality of tokens. I'm considering getting a generic set large enough to be used with House War (Black for Ruined and Blue for Workers? Or Orange for Ruined and Black for Workers?), but that could also be used in any number of other games I have. (I've got an idea that would make Small World a lot simpler, though replacing those tokens would lose most of the art, which is one of the best parts of the game.)

But, I would like to say that I would absolutely love to see PennyGems for the KR orders. I'd buy a set of those with zero hesitation, even though I can't fathom a reason I'd have to use them.

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The add-on is a bit disappointing. It's an interesting idea, but much too expensive for what they are. A shame, too, cause a late addition add-on that everyone wants would really pump up those pledges, making the minis and further stretch goals more possible. Hoping they announce more SGs soon and that spurs some on-the-fence people into pledging.

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They've just announced a social stretch goal (2.5k backers) for a custom card creator through drive through cards.

I was hoping for blank cards as an addon but this is even better :)

Edited by Claincy
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Cool. If Inquisitor turns out as bad as I fear, I can just make my own.

It might defeat the point of Promos, though, if people can just recreate them...

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Quick Update:

35 hours to go

Custom card creator stretch goal reached. Additional problems stretch goal reached. The Siege of Luthadel stretch goal reached. :)

They've added a final little bonus stretch goal for a recruiter promo card at 265k.

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