Mid-Range Game 13: Treachery on the Terris Peaks

[Mark IV]

Well, personally, I don't think the Traitors would go for a pewter kill, unless it is late game. This would be because of the potential to be revealed. Losing an eliminator for one villager isn't worth it for the eliminators.

So, everyone, I agree with phatt. Don't store charges for pewter unless you are evil. If you are evil, then feel free to store and use them. Preferably in the early game.

I'm not sure what inputs you want just yet. Perhaps later tomorrow, we'll have more info to talk on.

So, right now though, PK, I hope that vote comes off later, unless you have info you're not telling us. If you do have info, please do share it.

Currently, I have no major suspicions other that the whole PK/Lopen thing.

(It feels strange to be one of the only two cleared players... O.o)

Again, if you have info or want something anonymously announced, PM me or Rae.

EDIT: there are also disadvantages to killing us companions. Cleverly put in by the GMs, the Traitors have to outnumber only the loyal Terrisfolk. This means that if they waste a cycle or two killing me and rae, then the loyal people get a head start of two cycles on the evil people. Think about that, Enemies of Alendi!

Edited April 19, 2016 by Mark IV

[STINK]

As if I'd give Rae or you information

[Mark IV]

I mean, it's your choice. Sorta.

[phattemer]

Death to the infidel!

[Arrae]

EDIT: there are also disadvantages to killing us companions. Cleverly put in by the GMs, the Traitors have to outnumber only the loyal Terrisfolk. This means that if they waste a cycle or two killing me and rae, then the loyal people get a head start of two cycles on the evil people. Think about that, Enemies of Alendi!

 

Well, RP-wise Asmode's a Terriswoman, but I second that point.

 

Bugsy, I saw you viewing this thread yesterday. Have anything to say?

[Paranoid King]

Currently, I have no major suspicions other that the whole PK/Lopen thing.

We need votes in the first round, and nobody is really suspicious in the beginning. This leads to votes with weak reasoning, just so we can get some discussion.

In the write-up, it is stated that Lopen is the nephew of the expedition sign-up person, so it would make a better story if he was evil, because nobody expected it.

So really, I'm voting on Lopen because if he's evil, it'll be more dramatic than if anyone else is evil.

[Bugsy]

Well, RP-wise Asmode's a Terriswoman, but I second that point.

 

Bugsy, I saw you viewing this thread yesterday. Have anything to say?

 

Not really, which is why I didn't post last night 

I figured that at this point, baseless accusations hurt more than help the village, and that it'd be more logical to just wait and see if anyone seemed to be trying to deflect attention.

 

Right now, I'm kinda torn between PK and Lopen. I'm going to abstain from voting until things develop a bit more, but if nothing else happens I might just flip a coin between the two of them to get things done.

[phattemer]

I'M GOING TO VOTE THIS CYCLE BECAUSE IT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR US TO DO SO EARLY ON. BY THIS WE CAN DETECT VOTING PATTERNS AND FIND ELIMINATORS. WHILE WE SHOULD LYNCH SOMEONE, I'D PREFER IF WE HAD A REAL REASON INSTEAD OF JUST TO CAUSE DRAMA. SO I'LL VOTE FOR PARANOID KING, SINCE THAT VOTE SEEMED LIKE AN EXCUSE TO JUST LEAVE IT AND PARTICIPATE IN A LYNCH WITHOUT SAYING MUCH ABOUT IT.

Oops, accidental caps. :/

Yes, I left it there. It amused me.

We've still got a full day left  in the cycle, so let's get more discussion going! Who else has commentary on my suggestions for powers? Or has some other ideas themself?

[Arrae]

Not really, which is why I didn't post last night 

I figured that at this point, baseless accusations hurt more than help the village, and that it'd be more logical to just wait and see if anyone seemed to be trying to deflect attention.

 

Right now, I'm kinda torn between PK and Lopen. I'm going to abstain from voting until things develop a bit more, but if nothing else happens I might just flip a coin between the two of them to get things done.

 

I'm pretty sure this PK - Lopen thing is more RP based than anything else.

Gwt nlej ud tiy fwr rgua oyr tiye dlc diis ub l oiar

Bugsy. 

[phattemer]

Thanks for that, Rae. I've got some time on my hands and wasn't sure what I was going to do.

[Straw]

My dice think that Lopen is evil!

[TheMightyLopen]

Wow, 2 votes before I even post...

 

Anyways, my name, Talion, is from a LoTR game called The Shadow of Mordor, so I think it's very fitting that I'm the GM's nephew! 

 

Only one thing I want to comment on right now, and that is that I don't think no one should use Pewter. It's just like a village kill role and we don't tell them to never kill anyone. Why only let the eliminators use it? I don't tend to be trigger happy like some players...but it can be a useful tool.

[Arrae]

You're welcome, Phatt.

 

 

 

Iron: Storing iron isn't as useful now that it does take an action. It is, however, the only useful storing ability. Tapping iron is probably only going to be done by the traitors. It could be useful to isolate suspicious people if we think there's only one or two traitors left, but that probably won't happen.

The rules say that storing iron is a passive ability that doesn't require an action.

 

 

 

Steel: The only use I can see for storing steel is if someone really needs to be untargetable. It's not worth the 40% chance of death, though. Tapping steel however, is extremely useful. Not only does it have the effects of storing iron, but also you can't be lynched unless it's with 3 votes.

Emphasis mine. The lynch isn't guaranteed to be lethal unless there's more than 2 votes, so we need to have more votes to make sure it counts.

 

 

Zinc: Storing: I'm obviously not! 50 words is a lot less than it sounds, but it could be worth it if you're not going to contribute much anyway.

Tapping: You can get a second action next turn. Very cool. This probably goes best with steel, since you could store and then tap, and gain all the benefits without needing a charge beforehand, and- if you can pull it off- zinc itself.

If you're storing zinc and need to get your message across, no grammar like this save words.

[phattemer]

Yes, but not every single person is a village kill role. If only the eliminators use it, then anyone who learns who attacked them knows it's a traitor.

Also, the village kill is the lynch. I don't think we should have random people trying to kill if they don't have good enough reasons to convince others.

[Arrae]

Yes, but not every single person is a village kill role. If only the eliminators use it, then anyone who learns who attacked them knows it's a traitor.

Also, the village kill is the lynch. I don't think we should have random people trying to kill if they don't have good enough reasons to convince others.

 

Seconded. In LG15b, I was a vigilante, and I killed exactly one eliminator out of seven or eight victims. Lynching is better because it's a way to provoke opinions and reactions and very, very public. Don't become the eliminator team's second kill!

 

Of course, if you're certain, go for it.

[Mailliw73]

one thing I want to comment on right now, and that is that I don't think no one should use Pewter. It's just like a village kill role and we don't tell them to never kill anyone. Why only let the eliminators use it? I don't tend to be trigger happy like some players...but it can be a useful tool.

Actually, people do advocate that for village kills. I don't recommend it though. I prefer them to act on suspicions, but to be judicious with it. (MR12 was supposed to be a lot bloodier with you and stink as kill roles. )

[TheMightyLopen]

Actually, people do advocate that for village kills. I don't recommend it though. I prefer them to act on suspicions, but to be judicious with it. (MR12 was supposed to be a lot bloodier with you and stink as kill roles. )

 

Well, I've advocated that village kill roles not kill right away, because there's not much to go on, and so you'd probably just do more harm than good. But once it's a Cycle or 2 or 3 into the game, than if they have a good suspicion, go for it. They have the role for that very purpose and to never use it and to ask that they never use it wouldn't be fun. I'm usually more of a  cowardcareful player, so when I got the kill role in MR12, I didn't let anyone know about it until late game and used it to kill the last player we needed to kill, rather than risk killing one of my teammates.

 

Phatt does bring up a good point though, that players can learn who attacked them with Pewter, so I can understand advocating that no village players use Pewter(at least for now).

[Arrae]

Asmode sat on the grassy ground and closed her eyes. Mishek was off speaking to the rabble, so she finally had some time to fill up her metalminds. She poured her speed of thought, her strength, her sight, and her health into her metalminds, slipping into a peaceful trance. This was the closest she'd get to peace in the next few weeks, and she relished the silence.

"QUIET!" Someone screamed. Even in this state of near deafness, the sound was as loud as if someone was speaking next to Asmode. She struggled to comprehend the sound and frowned in concentration.

 

"On second thought, any questions shall be entertained privately," the same voice said. Who could be so loud? Asmode recognized that voice. It was Mishek. Mishek was talking to people.

"Oh! And those of you who wish to stop us may leave right now," Mishek said. He was too loud. Asmode was annoyed. "Once we really start this journey, you will not be spared. This is your last chance to turn back."

 

Then there was blessed silence. Why wasn't Mishek speaking?

 

Asmode stopped filling up her metalminds and her mind threw off the mental mist that was clogging her thoughts. Now that she had something stored in her metalminds, she hopefully wouldn't have to repeat what she just did. Storing too much of an attribute was dangerous, and storing too much of multiple attributes was even more dangerous, but she didn't have a choice if she was to be on the stupid night watch.

 

Mishek must have finished dealing with the rest of the packmen, which Asmode was glad of. She might be one of the official Companions of this trip, but that didn't mean she had to enjoy the presence of other people. She stood up and walked back to camp.

 

---

 

Trelagist, I want to make sure you're here. Don't worry, this vote is going off of you as soon as you make a post.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Arraenae

[Trelagist]

I'm pretty sure I'll have time later today, unannounced exams suck

[DeathClutch19]

I think if you have suspicions then by all means use Pewter, but only if you can defend yourself if you happen to be wrong

Yes, I am Advocating the use of Pewter it is a very good tool for the village.

[Master Elodin]

So, Rae, is your RP truthful? e.g. you have a charge of zinc, etc.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Master Elodin

[luckat]

Okay, now that I think I have a decent grasp of the rules, I’ll try to put down some of my thoughts. This first bit is about each of the powers, kind of building on what Phatt said earlier.

Tapping Iron could be useful for the village because it would allow someone to split us into two groups, so if the eliminators make a kill they narrow themselves down more. I’m not sure if it would be worth it though since it would take so many cycles to store enough for a landslide--cycles that could be spent using other powers since storing Iron is now active, although also cycles where you are protected from a fall or landslide. Thoughts?

Storing steel doesn’t have a drawback as long as you aren’t up for a two-vote lynch ( as long as plenty of people vote). Tapping steel really isn’t much better than storing Iron, so unless you are really worried about getting left behind later on, you might as well store Iron instead.

Using Pewter has been discussed a bit. I think villagers shouldn’t attack with Pewter unless they have very strong suspicions, and it isn’t best to use early on when the chances of hitting a villager are too high. I also want to remind people that in this game there is an opportunity cost to using Pewter instead of other powers, and a single charge of Pewter only injures. It would take a second charge or two people using Pewter to actually kill someone (something eliminators are better-equipped to do).

Tin is very useful because it is the only protective ability. True, it only self-targets. But if the eliminators hit a few people while they are tapping Tin, we’ll have more time to catch them. Risking dying instead of getting injured when storing isn’t that big a deal unless people are using Pewter.

I’m wondering if it would be a good idea for some people to tap Brass earlier than the third cycle. It might be good for us to not all be powerless the same cycle. Then again, since turns when you fall don’t count for the one in three turns where you need to tap Brass (this is something I clarified with the GM), some people might naturally get on a different cycle from falls.

Zinc is interesting in that you are basically sacrificing two actions (one for storing, one for tapping) for an extra one in the future. It might be worth it for the flexibility to use multiple actions when needed or the ability to use more than one power at once if there are any useful combinations. However, I don’t think it is that useful, especially when considering that you have to give up most communication for a cycle to store it.

Bronze is the only power that can be used for information gathering. I think it would be very useful for checking whether people are doing what they say they are if we want to coordinate anything. Storing it does cost the ability to vote for the turn, which isn’t a great thing to lose, especially later on. That does provide a nice check that someone who says they are storing bronze is doing what they say they are, but it could also make it easier for the eliminators to find out who has the most information. I think it would be great if some people primarily used bronze as long as it’s not everyone.

It might be good for everyone to store a charge or two of Gold early on so they can heal themselves if they become injured. However, since the only ways to get injured are to be attacked with Pewter (which can be doubled up to cause a kill instead) or to tap Iron, it might not be super helpful.

Regarding falls, it turns out the roleblock now happens the cycle after you fall (this is another clarification I got). With this, I don’t actually think announcing falls to the thread is a good idea. That just tells the eliminators who can’t use an action, which means there is no way for them to be protected since the only protection is self-protection with Tin. It might be good to spread the information somewhere, like to the Companions or someone you trust, but it isn’t something everyone needs to know.

The Companions could be very useful for coordinating actions and sharing information if they are willing. However, the more we depend on them, the more likely it is for the eliminators to decide killing them is worth it. I mean, they probably won’t kill them since it is a waste of time to kill people they don’t need to for their win condition, but we shouldn’t make a strategy that depends too much on the Companions remaining alive. I do think everyone should at least have a PM with each of the Companions to lay the groundwork for potential coordination. If we do it right, the Companions could keep track of actions and catch people in lies or find the possible places the eliminator kill could be coming from. Potential ideas for coordination is something I think we should discuss in the thread.


My main takeaways at this point are that Tin and Bronze are probably the most useful powers for the village, and we should discuss how we plan to use the Companions’ confirmed position.

[twelfthrootoftwo]

Clarifications:

 

Lynch Mechanics

Being left behind with a two-vote lynch removes that player from the win conditions. That means the village wins if the last eliminator is left behind, even if they would have caught up the next turn, and vice versa.

 

Ties are resolved with a coin flip.

 

Alignment will be revealed upon death. Stored charges will not be revealed.

 

The writeup will distinguish between kills, lynches and freezing. Pewter and eliminator kills look the same. Failed attacks are revealed (but not the targets), but injuries are not shown. Landslides are shown, but there is no distinction between natural and iron landslides.

 

If votes are lost through storing bronze, the number of votes will change but the listed player names will not.

 

Companions can be lynched, traitor killed, and generally targeted with any action.

 

Metals

Storing iron is not a passive ability. The limit to stored iron charges has been removed.

 

When tapping iron, you have a 50% chance of being injured in the process, independent of how many charges you're tapping. This has nothing to do with falls (that was just a bit of flavour text).

 

If left behind via the lynch while storing steel, you spend one turn stuck behind. At the end of the following turn you get the 60% chance to catch up. The effect is that you are stuck behind for two days instead of one.

 

To successfully store a zinc charge, you are limited to 50 words that cycle. If you exceed 50 words (give or take a few), you do not store a charge and you do not take any action that turn. The GM PM does not count towards this limit; all other PMs, traitor doc, and thread do count.

 

If you tap zinc, but fall on your next turn (when you would normally have two actions), the extra action is carried over to the turn you recover.

 

If you have two actions due to zinc, you can store and tap the same metal in those two actions. For example, storing and tapping iron would let you cause a landslide without being caught in it.

 

Storing gold twice in one turn (after using zinc) is fatal.

 

If you have 3 charges of zinc, you can stack them (tapping two charges in your two actions from the first charge). This gives four actions on the following turn.

 

Bronze will detect a player who is storing or tapping a self-targeting metal (eg Tin). Bronze can target the user and will not detect the user's action. If the target player is caught in a landslide that turn, you will only see the landslide.

 

Tapping two charges of pewter at once is a kill action. If the target is tapping tin, the kill is downgraded to an injury. (The Traitor kill, on the other hand, is averted entirely.) Tapping more charges of pewter can pierce tin protection. However, each additional charge of pewter icnreases the chance of the target discovering the attacker's identity if they survive - two charges is 80%.

 

Tapping gold has no effect on incoming attacks. It will only affect injuries you sustain on previous turns.

 

You can tap multiple charges of iron, tin and pewter simultaneously. All other metals can only tap one charge per action period.

 

Players have tapped brass 'last' turn, so you don't need to worry about freezing to death unless you haven't tapped a charge by the beginning of cycle 4.

 

Falls and Landslides

Landslides do not count as being left behind (ie you can store pewter and not die if a landslide occurs).

 

In a landslide, a group PM with all people involved will be opened. This is the only possible group PM, and can involve both Companions if they are both caught in the landslide.

 

Landslide victims cannot communicate with the rest of the group. This includes via PMs or the traitor doc.

 

Players caught in landslides are immune to new landslides, whether natural or from tapping iron.

 

There is a 20% chance each turn for a natural landslide to occur. Players caught in landslides are chosen from those who are eligible to be caught (as opposed to choosing from everyone and then excluding ineligible players, eg people tapping steel). Dead/left behind players are not eligible.

 

It is not possible to fall and be caught in a landslide on the same turn.

 

There can only be one landslide a turn. If a player taps iron to cause a landslide, there will not be a natural landslide that turn.

 

Companions can fall, and will not be able to PM for the next cycle. (They are the only players who lose PMs from falls.)

 

You can't fall two turns in a row - the chance of an extra turn roleblocked replaces the fall chance. If you get the two turn roleblock, you can still fall the following cycle.

 

Falls act as a roleblock for the next cycle. You will be informed at the start of the cycle if you have fallen. If you are also roleblocked the next turn, you find out at the start of that turn.

 

Turns spent roleblocked due to falling do not count towards the brass tapping window. For instance, if you fall immediately before you need to tap brass, and lose out on the roll and spend two turns roleblocked, you're fine as long as you tap brass on the first turn after recovering.

 

Other

Any attempt to transfer information word-for-word via PMs is not permitted. That includes copy-paste, inversions, interpolations, and encoded messages.

Edited April 21, 2016 by twelfthrootoftwo

[Elbereth]

A couple more clarifications and updates, since there weren't enough already...

Bronze will detect both storing and tapping, but it will not be able to distinguish between them.

Tin, basically, blocks one attack. Each pewter charge counts as a separate attack. Thus it blocks an eliminator kill, but only downgrades a pewter kill.

Also, you can tap tin multiple times in a single round if you want.

There is also a mistake in the order of actions. It should look like this:

• Iron, Steel, Pewter (store), Bronze (store)
• Lynch
• Tin, Brass, Zinc, Gold
• Eliminator kill, Pewter (tap)
• Bronze (tap)
• Fall, Landslide

Thus Bronze detects all actions used on a player that turn, and is not blocked by landslides.

[DeathClutch19]

Killua stood quietly, observing his surroundings. Killua trusted no one and was on guard, clearly there was a problem with traitors in this group and if he found one, he would quickly and quietly dispatch of him. Suddenly he heard a loud voice scream "QUIET!!". Mishek was speaking. He didn't bother to listen he didn't have time to listen to some amateur try to scare off the traitors with his threats. As if that was going to work, the traitors would die for their cause and therefore the only way to stop them was to silence them, permanently. 

 

"This is going to be a long journey, and I have not spoken to a single person" he said to himself then let out a sigh of disappointment. Maybe I should go meditate, Killua thought as he laid down on the ground. Instead he decided to take a look around and investigate. Slowly walking by his fellow travelers, analyzing each and every one of them. Killua had decided, should he see suspicion he would take matters into his own hands. He also kept in the back of his mind the need of a friend, someone he could talk to and share information with. Working alone is alright but having someone else is always better.