Why Wasn't Szeth a Skybreaker Long Ago?

[Vander]

That's what I'm saying, he didn't have a chance to form a Nahel bond until recently because he hasn't really been a murderer until recently (besides Gavilar). In the books when Szeth is emotionally distraught it is almost always because of the killings he's done, not being kicked out of Shinovar.

Not so much the "kicked out of Shinovar" part as the "Yeah you're a liar and you caused a national panic for no reason so now we're basically making you a slave that has to kill people" part.

 

Consider that it took him years to overcome his distaste of walking on stone. Szeth is a guy who quite obviously believes in his religion, and being made Truthless forced him to deny it. It may not seem like a lot, but having all you ever believed and have known taken away from you- based on something you truly believed, at that!- does seem rather traumatizing. 

[Blightsong]

Not so much the "kicked out of Shinovar" part as the "Yeah you're a liar and you caused a national panic for no reason so now we're basically making you a slave that has to kill people" part.

Consider that it took him years to overcome his distaste of walking on stone. Szeth is a guy who quite obviously believes in his religion, and being made Truthless forced him to deny it. It may not seem like a lot, but having all you ever believed and have known taken away from you- based on something you truly believed, at that!- does seem rather traumatizing.

I would agree with you, but there is not very much evidence that that 'broke' him. He seems relatively fine after Gavilar's assassination. Maybe a little depressed, but not broken.

Not until Taravangian. Not until the screams.

Just look at the other Radiants. Kaladin was suicidally depressed, Shallan has memory repression, and most likely PTSD. Dalinar lost his wife, best friend, and brother and was an alcoholic. They had actual mental issues induced by damage to their spirit web.

Szeth was relatively in anew ok mental state, until he had to brutally murder and slaughter possibly hundreds. This causedoes the screams, and as confirmed by Brandon, damaged his spirit web causing a now suitable break. After the murders he is visually shaking, bulging his eyes and generally being a maniac, and we didn't see that before.

That's why I think until recently, he hasn't been realmatically able to form a Nahel bond. There may be other other reasons, but this makes the most sense to me.

[Madninja324]

in keeping with the side debate on what makes a proper Skybreaker I'd think that the ideal of a "true" Skybreaker would be to uphold the spirit of the law while keeping to it's letter, but that if the choice must be made between the letter and the spirit a Skybreaker will always choose the letter.

I think we can all agree that Szeth hasn't had a chance to truly do either: the law of the Shin states that a Truthless MUST obey his master without hesitation or question, but if Nale's actions can be used as a judge (taken with a grain of salt as he IS insane) Skybreakers were expected to respect the laws of whatever country they are in at the time, so Szeth was put in a "no-win" situation similar to Kaladin's conflicting oaths in WoR, in order to follow the laws of his people he was forced to ignore the laws of the countries he operated in, had he been bonded to a Highspren at the time it would have died.

On the subject of the Highspren themselves having laws against bonding with Humans, this makes a lot of sense and likely explains why no proto-Sybreakers have appeared, however a representative of the Skybreakers will be needed for the Desolation at minimum, so Jasnah, as the Elsecaller and thus designated Spren ambassador, will likely need to go to a Highspren city within Shadesmar to convince whatever lawmakers exist among them to change the law in light of the True Desolation's arrival.

I doubt Szeth will become a true, Nahel-bonded, Skybreaker immediately afterward however, as Nale has been shown to bend the laws he professes to worship for his own purposes (case in point: gaining a sentence of execution against Lift for what amounts to petty theft, a crime that typically would be punishable by imprisonment or mutilation at most in similar societies to Azir) something that a Highspren wouldn't take kindly to. I also believe that due to it's personality Szeth will need to abandon Nightblood before he could become a genuine Skybreaker, as Nightblood would demand that he kill all "evil" regardless of the target's legal, or indeed moral status. In other words, before Szeth can even think about forming a Nahel bond with a Highspren he is going to need to break away from both Nale's and Nightblood's influences, choose of his own free will to put his faith in the very concept of Law and then act on that choice by adhering to both the letter and spirit of the laws of whichever country he finds himself in.

It will by necessity be a long and difficult road, but I have a mental image of a quiet and humble Szeth in colorful Shin robes again, protecting law abiding citizens of all countries and punishing lawbreakers in an appropriate manner to their crime.

Of course he could also end up as my other mental image of Szeth, wielding Nightblood and dressed in white, screaming insane hate at the knight's radiant, and in particular, Kaladin. Only time and Brandon will tell which Szeth will come to pass.

Also, slightly unrelated, but who else thinks that one of the Skybreakers' Ideals is something like "I will dispense judgement in accordance with the crime committed, no more, no less."

[thejopen27]

On 4/8/2016 at 2:15 PM, StormWrath said:

So I was wondering why szeth didn't become a skybreaker a long time ago,and I must say I'm surprised even baffled that szeth hasn't yet bonded or at least attracted a highspren,given how that guy sticks with the law to the very end,hell even the order's patron was attracted to szeth and even invited him to the order,I know some people will object that no spren will choose szeth because some of the things that he does are evil even kaladin mentioned it,but I don't think the highspren will worry about that,skybreakers are all about following the law no matter what,their second ideal is "I will put the law before all else." And to szeth he is just following the laws of the shin.

Skybreakers don't care if their actions seem evil or not right,if you break the law they will execute you without any hesitancy and with no mercy,look at how Nale for example executed ym because he unwittingly played a part in the poisoning and death of a person or how he wanted to execute lift (who's a child) for petty stealing,so I doubt skybreakers and highspren will bother much about szeth previous killings and assassinations because he was technically following the law

Why do you think he doesn't have a spren? Or is that he has already attracted a spren but that the spren hasn't revealed itself to him yet? Like how syl was following kaladin since when he was in amaram's army but never revealed herself to him until he later became a slave in the wagon,personally I do think in my opinion that even if szeth doesn't have a spren now,he'll eventually attract one now that he has been officially invited to the order.

But Skybreakers still must follow the first Ideal: Life before Death, Strength before Weakness, Journey before Destination