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Did Kaladin kill Helaran's spren?


eveorjoy

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If it was kaladin why would she say 'men' ? And notice that she said men not a man,which indicates she might even have bonded with multiple knights (at differnt times off course) Why does kaladin sounds so surprised if it was him? No I'm pretty sure the way she said it indicated that it must have been a long time ago.

Not necessarily, but it is open to interpretation. I don't believe Heleran is the only one she helped Kaladin kill before he was enslaved or even after that, but before she became fully aware. It's not clearly stated so she could just be referring to her time with Kaladin.

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Not necessarily, but it is open to interpretation. I don't believe Heleran is the only one she helped Kaladin kill before he was enslaved or even after that, but before she became fully aware. It's not clearly stated so she could just be referring to her time with Kaladin.

Yeah,that's entirely possible,I just feel that most of the fandom (including me) interpret that as having happened long ago and so I tend to agree with it more,BTW you're the first person I have seen who interpreted this passage as you did.

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Yeah,that's entirely possible,I just feel that most of the fandom (including me) interpret that as having happened long ago and so I tend to agree with it more,BTW you're the first person I have seen who interpreted this passage as you did.

Well, as Shallan said, yay for originality.

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We saw Syl as living Shardblade, or Pattern...also without Stormlight they have a very different "style" (and glowing) than a Deadblade, Kal at first look seems to see this difference without problems.

 

Well someone may recheck on the Kal's flashback (or Shallan) if the Shardblade had a gemstone...this will be enough

 

It had a gemstone and it has been asked to Brandon quite a while ago. I don't recall the exact answer but it went along the lines of "This is a good observation" or something similar.

 

In other words, Helaran blade had a gem at the pommel thus making him a normal Shardbearer and not a Radiant.

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Thanks for pointing this out :-)

 

She recognized it because Helaran threatened their father with it. 

 

When Dalinar stopped the chasmfiend's claw he glowed

 

edit: quote for reference:

 

Way of Kings page 209

Dalinar held back the claw and matched its strength, a figure in dark, silvery metal that almost seemed to glow. The beast trumpeted above, and Dalinar bellowed back a powerful, defiant yell. 

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Ah, even more explicit, a few pages behind Pathfinders quote:

 

This wasn’t the first time Adolin had seen such extraordinary actions from his father, but they had seemed particularly dramatic. Standing beneath the massive chasmfiend, holding it back from killing his nephew, Plate glowing. That image was fixed in Adolin’s memory.
Edited by Atastor
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Y'all seem to assume that it was Helaran that Kaladin actually killed that day (we didn't see the guy's face, nor have we had actual confirmation, only extrapolations simply because the guy was red-haired and Veden) ;)

You know i did not even consider Helaran might have loaned his Shardblade out to another Skybreaker Vaden..

Stranger things have happened in the Cosmere for sure haha

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You know i did not even consider Helaran might have loaned his Shardblade out to another Skybreaker Vaden..

Stranger things have happened in the Cosmere for sure haha

 

But the blade didn't vanish from either Amaram's or Kaladin's hand at any point... You'd think Heleran would've summoned it back as soon as he realized the borrowing person isn't among the living anymore. 

 

While I do agree that the person Kaladin has killed may not be Heleran, I think we should use Occam's Razor here. Red-haired Sharbearer with the same sword Shallan remembers Heleran having? It could be another Veden, but I think it's far more likely it's actually Heleran. Not to mention that it gives more possibilities, narrative-wise, if Shallan finds out Kaladin was the one to kill her brother.

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Wasn't Amaram's blade different from either the one Kaladin won or Helaran's? I don't remember which one (Probably both!)... Amaram could have easily switched with a friend to cover his tracks though...

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Amaram's Blade is the one Kaladin fought as he recognize it. Im guessing Shallan will throw a fit when she finds out about Kaladin and Helaran.

 

 

But the blade didn't vanish from either Amaram's or Kaladin's hand at any point... You'd think Heleran would've summoned it back as soon as he realized the borrowing person isn't among the living anymore. 

 

While I do agree that the person Kaladin has killed may not be Heleran, I think we should use Occam's Razor here. Red-haired Sharbearer with the same sword Shallan remembers Heleran having? It could be another Veden, but I think it's far more likely it's actually Heleran. Not to mention that it gives more possibilities, narrative-wise, if Shallan finds out Kaladin was the one to kill her brother.

I know it's most likely Helaran but as a 17th Sharder (AKA conspiracist) i was just surprised the thought never occurred to me, unless he gave him the Shardblade after achieving the Nahel Bond and it turns out we have been masterfully trolled...? :|

 


But no it's probably Helaran. :lol:  :D  :P  :P 

Edited by WEZ313
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But the blade didn't vanish from either Amaram's or Kaladin's hand at any point... You'd think Heleran would've summoned it back as soon as he realized the borrowing person isn't among the living anymore. 

 

While I do agree that the person Kaladin has killed may not be Heleran, I think we should use Occam's Razor here. Red-haired Sharbearer with the same sword Shallan remembers Heleran having? It could be another Veden, but I think it's far more likely it's actually Heleran. Not to mention that it gives more possibilities, narrative-wise, if Shallan finds out Kaladin was the one to kill her brother.

 

This assumes that the shardbearer Kaladin killed was the borrower and Heleran held the primary bond to the blade.  For all we know, Heleran was the borrower.  We've seen shardblades shared and borrowed on a regular basis... such as the King's blades and the late Gavilar's blade.  With Heleran being part of a secret society, who knows what exchanges take place with their blades and plates.  Heck, the "red-haired veden" could have been anybody.  On Roshar, we know red hair isn't exclusive to Shallan's family.

 

Occam's Razor does incline me to believe that it was Heleran that Kaladin killed, but I have to admit the door is still open for Brandon to say Heleran is alive.

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helaran wasn't a surge binger ..Assuming if he was a surge binder he would have to spoke upto the third ideal to gain a shard blade which make him a full Radiant (Only lightweaver have shard after speaking the first ideal,Pattern  confirmed he was the only cryptic to have bounded in centuries)  Don't think Even Kaladin could have killed a full radiant burning stromlight and Full shards with his limited ability  Taravangian wrongly assumed him as surge binger because of shallen surge binding ability and how close she was with helaran ..As far as we know there are very few surge binders might be a single knight from each order ( Patter and Syl confirmed they are the only one of their kind to bound ) also Pattern highly implied spren would die only if knight abandon their oath even syl said they could have done something about the dead spren if their bounded knight were alive ... I belive if their knight die their spren would fade back to cognitive realm ...

Ps. Syl implied stromfather survived the last recreance when knight abandoned their oath , i bliv his knight die before he abandon his oath or he didnt abandoned his oath.....

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Heleran didn't borrow the blade. Shallan saw it appear in his hand. That could only happen if he was bonded to it.

I Agree! Unless Helaran gained the Nahel Bond and gave his shardblade to another Redheaded Vaden who happened to be a Skybreaker.  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:

 

No but seriously i agree, somebody who borrowed a Shardblade could carry somebody else's but they couldn't summon it.. Their possession of it entirely depends on the owners concentration and if it slips it will return to the owner. 

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helaran wasn't a surge binger ..Assuming if he was a surge binder he would have to spoke upto the third ideal to gain a shard blade which make him a full Radiant (Only lightweaver have shard after speaking the first ideal,Pattern  confirmed he was the only cryptic to have bounded in centuries)  Don't think Even Kaladin could have killed a full radiant burning stromlight and Full shards with his limited ability  Taravangian wrongly assumed him as surge binger because of shallen surge binding ability and how close she was with helaran ..As far as we know there are very few surge binders might be a single knight from each order ( Patter and Syl confirmed they are the only one of their kind to bound ) also Pattern highly implied spren would die only if knight abandon their oath even syl said they could have done something about the dead spren if their bounded knight were alive ... I belive if their knight die their spren would fade back to cognitive realm ...

Ps. Syl implied stromfather survived the last recreance when knight abandoned their oath , i bliv his knight die before he abandon his oath or he didnt abandoned his oath.....

 

Eh... Shallan progressed in her Ideals as a child, she didn't have Pattern because they get the Shardblade earlier, she was able to summon him because she's already three Ideals along.

 

Ym could heal. The two Orders with Progression are Truthwatchers and Edgedancers. Renarin and Lift. So there are at least two of one of those Orders.

 

Someone has pointed out that if Helaran were foolish and didn't have any spheres on him, in an attempt to be secretive, he could have been killed by such a wound. That's preposterous, of course, as Kaladin was able to Invest enough to fully heal two broken legs in moments, and people standing two feet away from him couldn't see that he was Invested, so there's no way Helaran couldn't have Invested at least enough to survive such a stab wound and still been incognito. Not to mention the dozen other reasons the man he killed couldn't have been a Surgebinder, like the Blade that didn't dispapear and had a gemstone in its hilt.

 

I don't know why Taravangian thought Helaran could have trained his sister. I don't know if he thought Helaran was a Surgebinder, or if he just thought he was knowledgeable enough to give advice, like Teft attempted to with Kaladin. If he did think Helaran was a Surgebinder, I don't know why he would have, but it seems a stretch to assume, "Well, she's close to her brother, so I'm just going to assume he could Surgebind, too."

 

I don't know that we know for sure that the Stormfather has ever Bonded before. He seemed to find the idea... unique when it was suggested to him. Just because Dalinar did, doesn't mean someone else has, before.

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