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Reading Excuses 4/4/2016 ecohansen A Meal (slight s, v) 6109 words


ecohansen

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Hello all.

 

So the story's obviously a mess.  I can't get the two most pivotal sections to work. It feels like the natural length the story wants to fill is 8,000-10,000 words: too long for a short story, too short for a novella.  (Q1) Should I expand it to a novella, or shrink it to a proper short story?

 

I'd originally planned it as a short story for Metaphorosis, a venue that gives brownie points for vegan fiction.  I'm not even a vegetarian anymore, but for the story I channeled my inner angsty teenager, who was a vegan for a couple years.  Hopefully none of my future submissions to this group will be similarly whiny and argumentative.

 

If I do wind up submitting to Metaphorosis, the entire story will have to be under 6000 words.  (Q2) Where should I cut?  "The Village of Rice" seems like an obvious candidate, but the scene does several things that I'd need to shift over to other scenes if I cut it, and I like the way the scene develops its world.

 

Q3.  What on earth should I do with Twiyoy?  I feel like I really failed in writing her character.  She comes across as an offensive compilation of negative female stereotypes.  I started the story off with an epigraph from an essay on feminine/ist fiction.  I, a male, appropriated the quotation to instead be a commentary on vegan/utopian fiction.  When I then fill the story with stereotyped characters like Twiyoy, I feel like I'm setting myself up for a lynch mob.  How can I make Twiyoy better?

 

Q4.Does the story as a whole come across as too much of a sequence of vignettes instead of a real story?

Q5.Is having section names within a short story too kitschy of a gimmick?  Do the actual section names I chose work well?

Q6.  I tried to write a story about characters with philosophical disagreements.  I feel like I spent too much time describing the philosophies themselves instead of the characters, but I also feel like, in trying to prevent that problem, I didn't explain the philosophies clearly enough for the differences between them to matter.  Did I at least halfway succeed in threading the needle?  If I failed, should I devote my energy to clarifying the differences between the characters' philosophies, or should I devote my energy to cutting out philosophical prattle wherever possible?

Q7. I tried to do little tricks with intentional repetition.  Did they work, or did it just sound like I was stuttering and too lazy to use synonyms?

Q8.  In general, what do you think about intentionally ambiguous endings?  Are they a good way to keep your readers thinking about your world even after the story is over?  Or are they just irritating, pretentious, overused, and a sign that the author doesn't have the courage to settle on one ending or the other?  And in this instance, did I do a decent jo with the ambiguity?

Q9.  And of course, I'd appreciate advice and council on what I should do with those two lightly-sketched-out sections.

 

The story has plenty of other problems, and I'd appreciate advice on any and all of them.

 

Best, and thanks again,

ecohansen

Edited by ecohansen
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OK, impressions as I read first, then will answer your questions.

 

As I Read
 

Hairy...hairy imagery. Strong. Effective. Enkidu?

 

"...a timid creature that dined only on fungi." I realize you are short on word space, but as someone who works with fungi, now I want to know what kind???

 

On page two, your description of the soil microbes changes tense. Pick a tense and stick with it.

 

Stachys plant? My mind goes straight to Stachybotrus, which is of course, not a plant.

 

Write out numbers, and watch the comma splicing.

 

In the final line of the first 'chapter', I really like the 'Jacob intended to earn himself a soul'. That is gripping. The two that follow are less so. Could that information be seeded somewhere else, earlier?

 

And now into the second fungal description, I think I love you.

 

The second 'chapter' is less compelling that the first, but I like the imagery more.

 

This paragraph: ~Gwilyob strode to the front. His grandfatherly and flower-bedecked face assumed a mask of deep seriousness. “In renewing the land,” he said, “sometimes we harm a few creatures to create a better future for the many. That is sad but excusable. But when we harvest, we take. In harvesting, no harm is excusable. How can we know that in harvesting, you neither harmed nor coerced any creature with a brain?” ~

 

So that paragraph raises some questions for me, but maybe beyond the scope of your manuscript. If the people are so intent on not hurting microbes, how do they deal with the mycorrhizal fungi on the roots of the plants they eat? Are fungi classified as not having a brain (when in fact, science has shown they are highly intelligent)? Or did I miss something, and they aren't concerned about microbes, and literally just with things with visible brains?

 

General thoughts post reading

I like the writing style and found it a very easy read. I'm still murky on some things, but the second 'chapter' hooked me hard, and I enjoyed reading it. I was a little concerned that, noting that it had to be 'vegan' that it would be preachy, but I didn't get that vibe at all. I found it very natural themed, with strong science that I loved.


Your questions

Q1: I think shortening would tighten the whole thing up and make it a powerhouse. Lengthening would likely make it meander more, which it already does in places.

 

Q2: Ooh, this one is hard. By the banks of the river doesn't really tie in that I can see. The mother falls flat and I don't think you lose anything by cutting her.

 

Q3: Twiyoy - I didn't find her offensive (and trust me, I get worked up over women's issues), but I did find her vague and lacking any sort of personality. I'd suggest just cutting her. The narrative doesn't pass Bechdel anyway, so unless you can figure out a way to work in some better dialogue with her and another female not about the protagonist, I don't think the mother is worth the words.

 

Q4: At first it was choppy, but as I got into it a flow developed and I loved it. Then the end sort of dissolved a little. I think cleaning the beginning few would do a lot to help the flow.

 

Q5: I like the idea of section names! Some of them I didn't care for, but that's a minor fix. I thought they helped the narrative.

 

Q6: I didn't see philosophical disagreements so much as one man's journey in a post-apocalyptic sort of land. If its disagreements you're after, edits are needed. However I think the tension held, regardless.

 

Q7: The repetition knocked me from the narrative each time. Not a fan, but it wasn't a huge deal.

 

Q8: Endings for...each section? Or ending of the narrative overall? Please clarify question.

 

Q9: Flesh them out! I want to read them!!!

 

 

 

Thank you for an interesting read! I work in forests and with fungi so I was super interested in the backgrounds and lifeforms you presented!

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Kaisa,

 

Thanks so much for the comments.  I'd almost finished convincing myself that I should rip everything up and turn it into a novella, so I was very glad to hear someone say I should stick to my initial plan, kill some darlings, and keep it a short story.

 

What forests do you work in?  With what fungi?  Is morel season coming soon in your neck of the woods? Fungi are my very favorite group of organisms, and I feel like I gave them short shrift here.Will you by any chance be attending any NAMA forays this year?  Or, being a professional, are you more the Mycologica Society of America type?

 

Q8 was about the ending overall, and I guess also the ending of the Katy subplot. The ending was supposed to ambiguously imply either that he was bringing Terrell out of the Hall, or that he himself was going in.

 

As far as which fungi the nematode ate, most nematode fungivores are fairly generalist--i suppose since this one was in the soil proper rather than in the duff it would have been more likely to dine on mycchorizal fungi than on saprobic, but that's as specific as I can get. 

 

The Stachys plants were mints in the genus Stachys.  Several of the species have the common name "Bettony" or "Rattlesnake Root"

, but the species that are native to the appalachians are less well-known.  All of them have small edible tubers.

 

As for passing Bechdel, what about Liza Mae's initiation?  It's a ceremonial conversation that takes place mostly between Twiyoy and Liza Mae, and is solely concerned with Liza Mae's accomplishments.

 

The people aren't intent on not hurting microbes: the smallest thing Joebob deals with are nematodes--mesofauna rather than microfauna. The society follows the strict vegan injunction of not harming things with neurons (Actually, when I was a vegan, I ate jellyfish since they have neural networks instead of brains--but I was pretty atypical).  I know that by many metrics a slimemold can out-think a planarian, but having neurons is a useful cutoff.  And yes, I definitely should have written "neurons" instead of "a brain".

 

And ooo...I wish I had been clever enough to think of the Enkidu comparison.  I might need to steal it.

Edited by ecohansen
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Hi Ecohansen and welcome!

 

Overall, I liked your story enough to read from beginning to end, and as a reader, if I don't like a thing, I won't read it, so consider it a compliment that you kept me as a reader all the way to the end.

 

I'm cool with the roughness of a lot of it, and I won't fuss at you over little things like tense typos or odd wording. I trust your overall style enough to suspect you can fix those well enough on your own after revisions are done and you're ready to line edit.

 

Anyway, some things that stuck out to me without going through and picking bit by bit:

 

--The spheroids at the beginning were hard for me to imagine, not that I don't know what a sphere shape would look like, but it just seems so dogmatically sci-fi-ish that it's not an image here or there for me

 

--The descriptions of the main character are vague enough at the beginning that I wasn't sure if I was reading abouta  human or animal or alien. This doesn't have to be a bad thing, except that I don't think it's an intended effect. I think in the effort to get things going with the plot that you didn't really set up the setting as clearly as I needed to activate the right set of background knowledge and imagery as a reader to fill in.

 

--The name Joebob, the Appalachia, and the Mississippi all stuck out to me. I figured out, eventually, that you it's a post-apocalyptic future, but with a mix of somewhat traditional names and then fantasy invented names, I felt jarred. I suspected when Joebob was pushed into one word that you might have evolved/devolved English, but then you kept correct spellings of other place names, and I felt disappointed that I hadn't predicted a pattern. You don't need to explain your naming conventions in text, but I do want a sense of some kind of internal rules at play.

 

--The idea of making a Meal as a spiritual and societal act of worship was pretty brilliant; it was a novel enough idea that I was along for the ride as soon as I read that bit.

 

--Wish the part where Terrell surrenders himself was developed; it made me miss the punch at the ending, as I had to ctrl+f to go back and find out what had happened with him

 

--The description of the adverse effects of the hall is brilliant

 

--The bit with the persepctive shift between the scorpion and Joebob confused me. I liked the premise, but because of the shift, when the pincer came through, with Joebob's dialogue shortly before, I thought he was directly at fault

 

--I don't think your interpretation of society's reaction to that kind of gluttony is a natural progression based on historical tendencies across world cultures, but I'm more than willing to gloss over that for the sake of the story

 

Should I expand it to a novella, or shrink it to a proper short story?

 

I think this is suited for short story best. You could some of things I don't like (sci-fi jargon) and prune it down to focus on development of characters, their ideals and the world

 

Q2) Where should I cut?

 

I'd say slim down some of the science jargon. Ask yourself what of it is really creating meaningful impact or interesting imagery for the reader and pare down everything else.

 

Q3.  What on earth should I do with Twiyoy?

 

Unless I missed something huge while reading, I didn't see anything wrong with Twiyoy. People bring their own baggage and world views to how they read characters, and you can't control that. Furthermore, there's more than 6 billion people on the planet today, and you can only control the actions of one, yourself. That means odds are that any single person is surrounded by other people making choices they might or might not agree with. If Twiyoy makes choices that some people don't like, well, that's an accurate representation of the world how it is!

 

Q4.Does the story as a whole come across as too much of a sequence of vignettes instead of a real story?

 

They twine together just fine.

 

Q5.Is having section names within a short story too kitschy of a gimmick?  Do the actual section names I chose work well?

 

I didn't find them gimicky, but I also didn't find them useful or interesting enough that I recall any of them without going back and looking.

 

Q6.  I tried to write a story about characters with philosophical disagreements.

 

I expected a lot more variety and argument that you delivered after prereading these questions before getting through the text itself. I think the whole lends itself a philosophical air, which is fine with me, and I don't think any one part was overdone.

 

Q7. I tried to do little tricks with intentional repetition.

 

Beg pardon? Not sure I saw what you're referring to.

 

Q8.  In general, what do you think about intentionally ambiguous endings?

 

Ambiguous is fine, but you got to set the reader up with enough information that they can draw an interesting conclusion. I don't think that's your biggest problem with ending at the moment, though.

 

Q9.  And of course, I'd appreciate advice and council on what I should do with those two lightly-sketched-out sections.

 

Write them?

 

Thanks for submitting!

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What forests do you work in?  With what fungi?  Is morel season coming soon in your neck of the woods? Fungi are my very favorite group of organisms, and I feel like I gave them short shrift here.Will you by any chance be attending any NAMA forays this year?  Or, being a professional, are you more the Mycologica Society of America type?

 

Q8 was about the ending overall, and I guess also the ending of the Katy subplot. The ending was supposed to ambiguously imply either that he was bringing Terrell out of the Hall, or that he himself was going in.

 

As for passing Bechdel, what about Liza Mae's initiation?  It's a ceremonial conversation that takes place mostly between Twiyoy and Liza Mae, and is solely concerned with Liza Mae's accomplishments.

 

The people aren't intent on not hurting microbes: the smallest thing Joebob deals with are nematodes--mesofauna rather than microfauna. The society follows the strict vegan injunction of not harming things with neurons (Actually, when I was a vegan, I ate jellyfish since they have neural networks instead of brains--but I was pretty atypical).  I know that by many metrics a slimemold can out-think a planarian, but having neurons is a useful cutoff.  And yes, I definitely should have written "neurons" instead of "a brain".

 

And ooo...I wish I had been clever enough to think of the Enkidu comparison.  I might need to steal it.

 

Enkidu FTW! Especially if there's someone going around sleeping with the ladies on their wedding night. That's just not cool.

Right now I work primarily in the Amazon rainforest which, should you get far enough into my manuscript, will come through loudly. I don't work with edibles, so know nothing about morels. I'm more of a lover of the non-fruiting fungi, therefore I don't do forays. I did do an article for FUNGI magazine this last year, and was supposed to be a speaker and demonstrator at one of the big fungi events in CO (I think, blanking on the name totally right now), but ended up time conflicts and couldn't make it.

The ending left me a little confused, so a little tightening might be advisable. I'm all for ambiguous endings, but this one skewed a bit closer to confusing.

And you are correct - I forgot about the ceremony! Bechdel passed! Carry on, sir!

 

Thank you for the clarification on what counts as brained and not brained. Veganism confuses me. Clearly, as my comments show.

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Krystalynn.

 

Thanks you! corrections noted and being addressed presently.

 

It looks like I'll definitely have to work on clarifying scene 1.  Before Joebob takes off the control helmet, he perceives himself as the soil microbot he is driving: many-legged and hairy-armed to move through the soil environment.  After he takes off the helmet, he perceives himself as he is: a normal human.

 

The naming conventions would have been clarified in a section I cut, but I think I'll have to work it back in.  People are born with names that would belong to farmers and woodsmen in a particular place.  In Appalachia, that means hillbilly names like Joebob.  In the Rice Village, there is the added convention that they have two given names (joebob, june anne, etc).  When someone is initiated into Rice Totem, they give up their childhood name and adopt a name from one of the tribes currently living in Melanesia (Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, and the Solomon Islands).  They do this because they borrowed their ideology from those tribes:  There are several Papuan and Solomon tribes that believe that only humans and rice plants have souls, and rice plants have a higher and purer soul than people do.  But Ahh...I didn't have room to put all that in the text, so I  might have to simplify the naming convention.

 

Thanks again!

 

Kaisa,

Let me take this opportunity to say that I'm insane with jealousy.  I knew some people who worked with the fungi of the Guiana Shield.  Am I right that there aren't many plants with ECM partners in the Amazon outside of the Guiana Shield?

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So I read this rather quickly, but I realize I rarely read in this genre - the closest that I have read being Cloud Atlas, likely.

 

General impression -

 

I thought the writing had real presence and though I feel like if I was going through with a fine tooth comb - I'd probably cut nibbles to ramp it up more, the general feel of it had real voice.

 

Yeah, then we get to the dialogue with Twiyoy. First off, lose all of the exclamations - instead of enthusiastic or simply ebullient, they make her read shrill (even if that's not how you hear her in your head - readers easily become unfair to older maternal characters). Then watch her dialogue tags: She huffs. She sniffs. She hisses with an intake of breath. Makes her read like an old fishwife. I think you actually mean her to come off as sarcastic at times but because of the rest of it, it's a bit confusing as to what her affect and general demeanor are. But working with that sarcasm, maybe try and make her a little more teasing and mischievous. Let her fuss with his hair and smack his back a touch too hard as she laughs dryly at her own joke. 

 

 (Q1) I'm leaning short story?

 (Q2) Yeah, you need to go through and cut 10% and just tighten.

 

Q3.  See my comment above.

 

Q4.Does the story as a whole come across as too much of a sequence of vignettes instead of a real story?

It thematically ties together. Lots of short story collections do that. You might play with some additional small connections.

 

Q5.Is having section names within a short story too kitschy of a gimmick?  Do the actual section names I chose work well?

 

I didn't really notice them. As a reader I treat them as the curtain framing the stage play.

 

Q6. I'd need to see the final piece, but I think a middle road is the right approach.

 

Q7. I tried to do little tricks with intentional repetition.  Did they work, or did it just sound like I was stuttering and too lazy to use synonyms?

 

I didn't really notice? Maybe that's a good thing.

 

Q8.  Honestly, I read the part about the meal - and I said to myself, "I think he means fulfillment." In the symbolic, larger sense

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Kaisa,

Let me take this opportunity to say that I'm insane with jealousy.  I knew some people who worked with the fungi of the Guiana Shield.  Am I right that there aren't many plants with ECM partners in the Amazon outside of the Guiana Shield?

I don't know. I don't work with ECM. I work with a very understudied group of soft rot fungi that secret extracellular pigments.

Basically I tour around the Amazon with a machete hacking open dead wood and looking for color.

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Thanks, Spieles!

 

Kaisa--

Sweet.  Up here the only common pigmented white-rotter is blue stain--I've always wanted to make t-bridge ware out of it.  I spent a year in British Columbia, and obviously became very familiar with the blue rot associated with the dendroctonus beetles that killed off all the lodgepole pines in the region.  What group specifically are you working with?  I'm wure I'll have to google it, but pigmented fungi are always fun.

Edited by ecohansen
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Slowly working my way up through all the submissions I missed last week. 

 

- I like the Ursula Le Guin quote at the beginning.

 

- Not sure I like the name Joebob, but it could just be subjective.

 

- I like the action and the description of the first few pages.

 

- I definitely like the world being set up here, and I'm interested to know more about earning a soul and "making a Meal".

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Deep apologies for cross-posting and double-posting--new information and all, y'know.  So I submitted the (substantially revised) story on Thursday night and heard back today: yay fast response times!  I wasn't in the 2% that is accepted outright, but I was in the 5% that gets a rewrite request.  I'd love any comments anyone might have on my rewrite proposal before I submit it in the wee hours Tuesday morning.  Specifically, I'd love to hear if you think I'm proposing revising it in the ways you'd want to see it revised.  Here's what the editor said:

 

 

 

Dear Christopher,

Thank you for sending us "A Meal". I enjoyed the story, but the piece is not for us as is. If you are willing to revise it, I'm happy to reconsider it.

If you want to discuss the story and potential changes, please feel free to send me an e-mail. Please also tell me what you think the story's about, or what emotions you're trying to evoke. The revision should be submitted by e-mail to this address. There's no guarantee I'll accept a rewrite, but if I feel the story is making progress, I'm willing to work through several revisions.
________
- We made our decision by the: end
- Prose: 3
- Thing you might consider:
I like the concept and some of the tone. However, a revision would require a substantial amount of work. The setting is unclear and the world isn't well established. The explanation of totems, for example, comes in very late, as does much of the backstory. The prose is sometimes blunt and 'telling'. The structure is probably not helping; you may want to consider a more traditional model.

Sincerely,
Morris Allen
Metaphorosis

 

Here's my idea for the rewrite.

Dear Mr. Morris Allen,

Hello.

 

Thank you very much for allowing me to submit a revision. I would love to take you up on that kind offer.

 

You asked what the story was about, and what effect I hoped to have on readers: I wanted to write a story where, 30 minutes after finishing, readers would still be asking themselves questions about right action and the nature of the good society in a post-scarcity world. Right now our society and our stories are overly concerned with fear (fighting the bad guy) and scarcity (winning and distributing Macguffins). I wanted to write a story where the main antagonists were the wrongs of the past and the impossibility of doing good without simultaneously doing bad. Specifically, I wanted to illustrate this through Joebob's difficulty in creating a single ethical meal, and the negative consequences of Terrell's actions: he tries to study groves, and winds up threatening them with an abundance of Totemists; he dissolves the Totem to protect the groves, and winds up hurting both himself and Totemists like Katy. Ambiguous and negative endings were intended to keep the reader asking the story's questions.

 

For the first revision, I'd like to try substantially tightening the existing story. If that doesn't work, then I will remold it into a more traditional structure on the second edit—I've spent the day trying to work out a traditional plot that hits the plot-points I feel are necessary for the story, and I've not been able to manage it yet. Specifically, I'd like to cut out a third of the words, reducing the word-count to about 5,000. I will cut out Twiyoy and most of the minor characters, leaving a plot more tightly focused on Joebob, Terrell, and Katy. I will cut at least one of the soil fauna interludes in its entirety. I will move most of the world-explanations to the beginning, and will attempt to work them in more naturally.

 

Two questions that would help guide my revisions:
1: Should I keep at least a few aspects of the world (e.g., the nature of the Hall) as late reveals to draw the reader forward with mystery? Or should I move absolutely everything to the front, so the stakes are known at the start and the choices are meaningful when they happen?

 

2: Was my problem with 'telling' only related to dry facts, or did it extend to moral/emotional judgments? Should I devote all my energy to cutting/sprucing up dry bits, or should I also put substantial work into cutting/toning down florid purple emotional bits?

 

Thank you very much for everything,

Chris Hansen

 

I know I'm asking you to comment on a proposed rewrite of a draft you've not seen, but I'd deeply appreciate any wisdom you cared to offer.

Edited by ecohansen
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Hey Eco,

 

I think the overall revision email is a bit long, perhaps. The editor who wrote you was super succinct, and in just one read of your response, you've put in so much information about what/how you think to change that I can't recall all the information without going back and looking at it again. I'd say the response itself is too wordy, regardless of content. It's super exciting that the editor offered to 'work through several revisions' with you.

 

The advice he offers at the end is really fair and aligns to what I struggled with while reading your work. The basic concept is evocative, which you mentioned was a goal for you, but it just needs a lot of condensing and  cleanup, which you mention you want to do.

 

I'm not entirely sure what changes would make the story more 'traditional' in its structure, but I'd really have to go back and look at the story again in broad sweeps to see what the structure overall is right now. The bit about Terrell (a city famous for loony bins in my neck of the woods) was lost on me entirely with the chunks that weren't actually written out yet, and if the text was that fresh when you submitted it (not even a week old), I think some time working it over will get it to where you and this editor seem to want to take it. I really liked the concept of the story, regardless of unwritten bits, bulky paragraphs, and vague or misleading descriptions, and want to see it grow into a final polished structure.

 

I agree that some of the minor characters could be cut to slim down the narrative, but only careful consideration and will tell you when/where/how much, and I don't have close enough knowledge of your story to think about what the right/wrong places for that might be.

 

Good luck!

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Thank you very much, Kristalynn. It's definitely not a good sign when my answer to "what is the story about" is a massive vague paragraph.  I'll let the proposal sit for the night and the story sit for a couple of days, and then take the trash compactor to both of them and see what comes out.

Edited by ecohansen
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Um, wow. Awesome language on your R&R. That sounds very promising!

 

Your first paragraph still reads a little vague. I'd suggest cutting it down to two or three sentences, and make those sentences pack a punch. 

 

Suggest removing that you are going to 'tighten' the story. The editor wants a major rewrite, so that already implies more than tightening. You want to come across as ready to do the hard work right off the bat. The rest of that paragraph works, at least for me, as you've committed to major cuts and moving world building to the start.

 

Your first question is awesome, and I think will give you meaningful feedback from the editor. The second could be clarified, as it reads as if you are unsure about where you 'told' instead of 'showed'.

 

I hope this helps, and good luck!

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Comments as I read. I haven't addressed your questions directly, I always read the story before looking at the thread. I just don't have time to go back to them - sorry.

Two Months Ago

Firstly, the story is very well written, i can totally understand why you would get this close to it publishing. You have a flowing style, with grammar and word choice that even I (Ace Verbtura, Pedant Detective) can hardly find anything to comment on - although I did wonder in the opening why the captalised Beast that one time.

I must say, Joebob took his helmet off at just the right time. I was just beginning not to care about this pursuit that I had no frame of reference for.

I don't really understand what a Fabber. How big it is what it looks like. It's not a big deal, I suppose, but enough to comment on, I guess.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'no moral existence'. The phrase seems imprecise. Did you mean no 'mortal' existence?

I feel that the last paragraph of '2 Months Ago' is the whole raison d'etre of the story. The first two phrases I'm fine with, but I felt I wanted more from the third about 'Rice', maybe what I needed though was more mystery.

Twenty Years Ago

Time jumping... okay. It's not my favourite thing, but ok. Wait, we've jumped back 20 years to listening to someone reminiscing about an earlier time? Hmm. That lacks the immediacy of being there when he discovered the lichen, but I can see why you might not go for that, having just had an active opening scene.

What is 'duff' in this context?

Ten Years Ago

The boy's speech is strong, I enjoyed the way he challenged Terrell's actions as selfish. There's a much wider moral debate there. It helped distract me from the fact that I don't really know what's going on. There seems to have been a ecological tipping point or crisis. That's not explained, but that's not the nature of the story (hard, factual explanation). What I don't get at all is the reference to getting a soul. Is this Ricer religious dogma? I guess I must read on to discover.

I don't like having to break off a story to go to the internet, which I had to do to understand the Savonarola reference.

I'm always interested in what pulls me through a story. I'm out of it at the moment to search for Savonarola, so it's as good a time as any. I don't feel any liking for either character so far, and their aims are rather obscure. There's very little blocking or setting at all, although I can picture a generic glade well enough to keep me going. The writing itself pulls me on, but I'm not sure I really care about what I should - the character's and their goals.

Five Years Ago

Why does Joebob jog everywhere, why can't he just walk like other people do?

I enjoy the way you have constructed your 'post-apocalyptic' society, the intertwining of post-technological simplicity with references to 'pre-fall' aspects. As a transport engineer, I find the use of road engineering terms as swearwords very effective.

Why is 'Grownup' capitalised? Does it hold some significance as an actual title in the story? If not, I see no reason for it. The more you capitalise, the less effective it is, to the point of distraction.

The ceremony was a bit long for me. The basis of it is interesting, but bit about not coercing any creature with a brain made me sigh. It seems over-precious to me, and lacking in certain practical considerations - just like all the best religions, then. It made me ask if these Ricers extend their philosophy to all aspects of life. Do they consider the habitat that they destroy in gathering materials for their homes? I suppose they could use windfalls, etc., up to a point. No doubt, these are the questions I should be asking at this point.

Hang on, after the righteous ceremony based around zero harm, Wia employs modern technology, the research into and production of which must have laid waste to countless habitats and sentient creatures - the Fabber! I searched online for Fabber at this point. I did not know this term at the start of the story. Is this a generational thing? I don't know.

I found it difficult to swallow that the plants growing from the Fabber would do so exactly as required by the story. How did that happen? All those amazing effects, growing to the right height, lifting a grown human into the air, how was that achieved? Am I to believe it was through science and engineering, God, magic?

Four years ago

The further explanation of the setting and context that comes from this (presently) short section is welcome.

Three years, two months

I like the premise for this section. Joebob's analysis seems overly simplistic, but grounded in the right area. I also like the appreciation they show for the fact that the overriding problem is that humanity's hardwired imperative carries the seed of its own downfall. Mankind is fundamentally unsustainable, as it is not sufficiently self-regulating to be accommodated (unrestrained) on planet Earth (IMO).

Three years ago

I don't follow why the copters are crass because the event hasn't started.

I like the rational for the mound of carbon, very good, but is the mound big enough? What sort of geographical area (volume) is this supposed to represent? It's the engineer asking, on another level, I'm happy to glide passed this, accept the concept, and not think too hard about the mechanics.

Sounds like a suitably dramatic and unexpected exit from the story for Terrell.

Two years, 11 months

I don't understand why Katy would consider how to change a natural process. Is that your intention? It seems misguided and directly contrary to the beliefs of her people. She also seems to lack and appreciation of human nature if she thinks she is unchangeable. But maybe that's just naivety.

Two years, one month

You use the term 'pseudoscorpion'. I took that to mean that it was one of Joebob's constructs, and therefore it's demise was surely irrelevant. He reacts, however, as if it was a real scorpion. At best, that seems unclear, at worst, it seems inconsistent with the story - surely the death of a construct is not considered on the same level as a natural creature.

The sudden demise of his meal feels rushed, then suddenly that is all wiped away and we're a year further on. More heartache, it happens so quickly I didn't have time to feel his despair and frustration. But another point of confusion, the worm died of natural causes? What's the problem?

One month ago

My reaction is the same as his mother's 'Oh, pave it.' Like her, I feel my patience running out.

Yesterday

My goodness, is he a hedonist?

30 minutes ago

Ah, no, okay. Would we learn about the nature of the Hall earlier, or is this the reveal? Anyway, I'm certainly left asking questions, considering the nature of existence. Considering the practicalities, the Hall itself can only sustain a certain number of people. Do they reproduce in there? I'm left with conflicting feelings, but retaining my belief that these systems are no more sustainable in terms of mankind's existence then the current one, but would no doubt last longer before they broke down.

Looking back, I'm not entirely sure what promises the story made to me, and therefore unsure whether it kept them. The writing was excellent; the characters, mildly annoying and frustrating; the plot, such as it was, not entirely satisfying - possibly because of the way I felt fragmented at the end.

In summary, I felt challenged - a good thing; somewhat entertained by the ideas and the writing; engaged by the setting - up to a point; but not engaged by the characters, my favourite part of most stories.

All this aside, your story is am excellent achievement. Well done. You clearly have skill as a writer, and I look forward to reading more of your stuff.

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I found the comments from Metamorphosis very interesting.

"Please also tell me what you think the story's about, or what emotions you're trying to evoke" - this is one I can certainly relate to.

Also, I think his point about considering traditional structure is interesting. I wonder if that would address the ending feeling rushed (to me).

Thank you so much for sharing the re-write comments. As someone hoping to submit when I write a short that I'm satisfied with, this is incredibly valuable.

Best of luck (and skill).

Edit: p.s. - "I wanted to write a story where the main antagonists were the wrongs of the past and the impossibility of doing good without simultaneously doing bad." As the central concept of the story, I feel that the focus is placed at a micro level, a level of doing no harm to the smallest creatures, ignoring the scale of the problem, which is global. The problem, to me, is not the impact on tiny creatures, which is a moral consideration, but the global mechanics and practicalities of running the completely unchecked biological infestation that is humanity. You're asking very interesting questions within your story but, for me personally, I'm not sure you're focusing on the right ones.

Edited by Robinski
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Robinski,

Thank you so very much for the thorough review and advice.  All of it was very helpful, and will help hugely with the revision.

Thanks also for the compliments: I spent a lot of time cutting and revising yesterday, and I'd gotten to the point where I was only seeing things that didn't work, so it was very encouraging to hear that some things did work.

 

I agree that the societal questions are much more important than the personal ones, but it's hard to write about them directly without being even preachier than I was.  I tried to write a story about smaller personal morality problems, with a world in the background that had solved many of our more pressing problems but still had a long way to go, and hope that the description would lead the readers to think about the nitty-gritty details of how a better world would actually be organized. 

 

"Pseudoscorpion" is the actual name of an group of critters that currently exist, and whose mating habits are some of my favorite things in the word.  I hadn't considered that the 'pseudo-' bit would make people think they were bots, but I definitely see the problem now.  Hmm.  Some pseudoscorpions are also called "book scorpions", but not the species I was writing about.  They also have the name "Chelonethid", but I hate to throw even more obscure greco-latin terminology into the story.  But that's probably the best option.

 

Duff is the layer of broken-down leaves that you find in between intact leaves and the mineral soil in a forest.  I see now, though, that Google only wants to talk about "designated ugly fat friends".  Huh.  I'll probably just cut.

 

Katy is not trying to change her home system, she's just miserable in it, and now she can't go to the appalachian old-growth where she'd be happier.  I'll definitely edit to avoid implications that she wants to alter the Mississippi system.

 

Your other comments gave great guidance t my scissors, and bodies will be hitting the cutting-room floor presently.

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