3/28/16 - krystalynn03 - Roamwald: C4-6 (4950)

[krystalynn03]

Roamwald, Summary C1-3
 

An unnamed presence, apparently not human, observes the town from the forested mountain-side. He worries over the strange weather, the river, and his own safety in coming this close to the Humans. He recalls happier times in his own life and retreats.
 

Jennie Fullers is worried about her family. They are getting low on food, and life is tense. She milks the family goat only to discover her uncle in the barn. He is damaged from prolonged exposure to the cold. After being sent to bed, she eavesdrops on a conversation between her uncle and her father as her uncle describes having seen a Snatcher in the forest.
 

Notes
 

• Jenni has been changed to Jennie.
• Jon has been changed to Leon.
• Larkspur has been changed to Jessamine. (Larkspurs do grow in the Appalachia now, but I don't know when they were introduced...)
   

Furthermore, I had better clear up some imagery and setting. I knew what I had in there was weak, but the myriad of responses I got last week showed me just how weak it was. I am working on fixing this, but I didn't want to go adding big descriptions into these next chapters to fix a problem that should have been fixed in the last chapters. So I'll fix it for the short-term in email for you guys, but fix it for the long-term for the reader in C1-3.
 

Setting: The valley of Haventon is not in the dry southwest. The characters speak with a western accent, but their forebears actually moved back east to these mountains for reasons revealed in this update. This is not America or an alternate version of it. The feel of it is just American. If I were setting it somewhere real, it would be in a something like a cove forest or northern hardwood forest of the Appalachia, but please don't think I'm trying to emulate Appalachian culture or exact Appalachian geography. I'm not. That said, my apologies for not doing a better job on that C1-3!
 

Thanks everyone who read and everyone who commented last week. It really got me thinking in new ways with thoughts from fresh eyes. I'm using your comments to make the narrative better (especially that setting, yeesh.)
 

For This Update:

• I'd especially like some feedback on Jennie's relatives. I've always thought they felt transparent as characters. I don't want to overdevelop them because they're not critical to the plot or later books, but I do sometimes feel like they're a little thin interest-wise.
• How does pacing feel?
• Anything out place? (My alpha reader made an unintended connection to pop culture on a detail and I may need to change it if others do the same...)
• Interest level at end? Still going or put down?

Thanks!

 

 

[Mandamon]

Notes:

pg 2: "uncle slouched by fireplace"

--by the

 

pg 3: "She felt more nervous for some reason, but then realized she felt colder, not more nervous."

--awkward sentence.

 

Page 5-7.  This section is still triggering my "There's a snake in my boot!" reflex just a bit.  The melodrama of "dagnabbit, that varmit dog's gone and vamoosed with the goat!" is a little over the top for me.  I'm exaggerating, of course--just showing what jumps out to me while reading.

 

pg 8: "wasn't long, but it wasn't short."

--so it was...medium?

 

pg 9: "grandmother came to here"

--came here

 

pg 9: "White's property line"

--I was wondering who else lived around here.  Good to see some other people.

 

pg 10: Hanna = Mama?

There are a lot of names floating around on this page and the next.  I'm guessing Helene is a cousin, then?

 

pg 11: "That's why I said don't get caught."

--Lol

 

-------

 

Most of the dialogue is fine.  There are a few sections early on that get a little too dialectical for me.

 

You briefly mention that most people live down near the river, but Jennie and family live up near the woods.  Is there a reason they built a house up there, rather than building one near Granny Jane?  It would seem that would be the safer choice, especially since they seem to be poorer from it.  Pacing-wise, not a whole lot happens in these chapters, but it does develop the characters more.

 

We get to meet the rest of the family, and it's a good rendition of a large southern family.  I can identify with having cousins hanging around and so many uncles and aunts you don't know who belongs to who.  There were a lot of names, so hard to keep track of in that manner.  I don't think they need to be developed more than they have unless they become important to the plot.

 

Out of place: I don't believe Helene's version of the snatchers, though I suppose there's probably some truth in there somewhere.  Still not sure why you would need a cannon to defend against them.  Unless you had a bunch of them, it's not going to be much use.  They can get one shot off, and then take quite a while to reload.

 

Still interested, still want to read more!

[Kammererite]

I enjoyed the pacing and style of this submission. it kept my attention and was an easy read. 

 

River: i would build a house by the river for the follong reasons: Fish, Fresh water, if my land is in the flood plain then good  soil regeneration

 

Woods: I would build close to the woods mainly if i depended on the woods for my living such as a lumberjack. based on the distances you stated, A hunter and/or Trapper may locate near the woods but i find it more likely they would travel the short distance from town as it doesnt seam to be very far away. 

 

I think safety is in the town. 

 

Wood size: When this valley was settled i think it most likely that the woods would have extended all the way to the river. 

 

I am still in the continue reading camp, but i am getting close to my decision point on a book (~50 pages).  The story is engaging me right now with the  person vs nature story about the family trying to survive but the hints of the snatcher promise more and i look forward to seeing it.

Cheers

[Asmodemon]

Lots of introductions in these chapters of the extended family, as well as some background information on the setting and characters, but not much else. From the first chapter I know there is something non-human out there, but it was more afraid of being caught than threatening. So other than a mountain cat preying on a goat and the harshness of the winter, not much is going on yet. I’d like to see that changed soon.

 

Jennie: Not sold on the perspective of the ten year old yet.

 

Bandit: From the way the father talks about the dog I figured this was a feral dog, but it’s actually his brother’s dog. Not liking how cavalier the father is in wanting to kill his brother’s dog. And why wouldn’t Leon’s dog hang around their house if they are family? Come to think of it, where does Leon live?

 

Snake: I’m picturing a mountain region in the full throws of winter, with snow everywhere. During winter the snakes should all be brumating (burrowed underground while slowing down their metabolism). While they will come out of their hideouts on warmer winter days, they wouldn’t while the ground is covered in snow. So I find it hard to believe the father woke up a snake that should be burrowed underground.

[kais]

Glad you submitted again!

 

 

The obligatory 'as I go' comments:

 

- 'Her hunter-trapper uncle' - wasn't this already established? Feels like info dump.

 

- I don't care for Jennie's 'sorry-not-sorry' comment to her uncle. She comes off as flippant, and I haven't gotten that from her character before

 

- Leon's comment about Laviana and not being good enough makes me dislike the uncle more. 

 

- 'More woman talk' (womEn talk?): nope. Definitely don't like him now.

 

- "She felt more nervous for some reason, but then realized she felt colder, not more nervous." This sentence is awkward.

 

- A number of the sentences start with prepositions. It's generally accepted that you can write like that informally, and speak like that to some degree, but it is generally frowned on in formal writing.

 

- I understand why you have the father come to investigate, but I would have enjoyed it more if Jennie investigated the missing goat on her own. More risk.

 

- "You're just a little girl". I'm set to punch Leon any time here.

 

- '...the ride to granny Jane's house wasn't long, but it wasn't short'. OK, so how long was it? This tells me nothing. You also use the word 'long' three times in three sentences.

 

- '...but if they could, the menfolk would protect us.' This seems strange coming from the mother. I think a mother to a child would be more likely to suggest that SHE would protect the child. I could see then the child asking who would protect the mother, and then it would make sense for the mother to suggest the menfolk.

 

- ....they're going to fight a snatcher with a cannon? That's a big, ungainly weapon for something moving and alive.

 

- page 13: the all around sexism in this scene is confusing to me. If you are trying to date the work to a time when society was more patriarchal, it doesn't work. In these homesteads, women worked just as hard as the men and while men were likely socially valued more, girls, even little ones, would have had to work just as hard as anyone else. Each time one of these scenes comes up, it grates rather than immerses me in the world. I don't feel sympathy for Jennie, I wonder if either A) the author is gearing up for some social statement or the inclusion at this level was not intentional

 

- I'm wondering a lot about family dynamics. What kind of rift could happen where they would greet each other so warmly, but not share food with starving children?

 

- With the level of hunger you introduced in the first chunk, I'm surprised Jennie doesn't steal a bit of milk or snack on some of the feed herself.

 

 

Your Questions

Relatives: I don't understand the family dynamic. They greet each other warmly, and the grandmother clearly loves her grandkids. Yet, that family is well to do while the other is starving. Why? How could a loving grandmother not see that the children are starving? If the world is set up as patriarchal as indicated, wouldn't the grandmother at least want to see the grandson fed? 

I don't find the relatives transparent, but I do find them confusing.

 

Pacing: I didn't have any issues with the pacing

 

Out of place: The sexism feels overdone. I have more specific comments above. The cannon also seems like a poor weapon choice, unless Snatchers don't like loud noises.

 

Interest level: Per above, I'm very off put by sexism without purpose. I can't tell if it is vital to your narrative or not, and it isn't driving Jennie to be brave, or break rules, etc, so it drives me away from the narrative instead of into it. I would put the book down at this stage. There isn't enough interest for me in the Snatchers or Jennie to hold my interest.

 

[krystalynn03]

Kaisa,

 

I notice you've got some very strong gut reactions to some things and I find very interesting. I didn't really expect you to read this update at all, much less comment on it, since I mentioned this wasn't a sister story and that the narrative wasn't going in a direction that seemed to match your interests.

 

All the same, thanks for the time you took to read and comment. I respect your strong feelings, and I'd like to answer a question you posed, but I really don't mean it as either an apology or as an encouragement to keep reading something that's not interesting to you. I think if this book held the kinds of things you like, you would have found them already.

 

You mentioned that you felt no sympathy for Jennie. Do I understand this to be because she isn't breaking rules? Or because she's not rebelling against the system? There's textual evidence that negates those conclusions at the very end of chapter 4.

 

as she brought in the half load of firewood in to the kitchen pile, she decided she would prove her uncle wrong about her being useless, even if the idea of what she had in mind spooked her.

 

Jennie's internal struggle in the book through is that no one is taking her seriously. Not even her cousin, who's also female and young. Granted, Helene's a mean-spirited child, but even so, the repeating problem is there. Jennie needs a good reason to do something somewhat foolish in the beginning of chapter 8, and all this leads up to that.

 

You don't like Leon? Good. You're not supposed to. He's the worst character in the book, and he's going to cause the whole town some problems later on, and if I don't set up his shortcomings sufficiently now, his actions later won't be believable.

 

That aside, I respect your choice to hate him, but the fact that you felt is so strongly is interesting and it tells me a lot.

 

The other critique stuff is useful, and I'll put it to good use. There is definitely a logical hole with the Teals that I haven't really addressed, and I really have to. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

Thanks again.

[kais]

I can certainly stop reading if you'd like. I find beta reactions to narratives they don't like often more helpful than from those that do like it, but I understand that view might not be held widely.

 

It's not that I don't have sympathy for Jennie. I do. I don't, however, find that the sexism drives more sympathy for Jennie. She gets upset about her uncle calling her useless, but other characters have done the same thing and she isn't equally motivated. Is it because she doesn't like her uncle (/doesn't trust her uncle)? The sexism is a strong stick to wield, so when it keeps popping up it makes me wonder if it is a plot device of some form. When/if Jennie goes after the Snatcher, it would be more satisfying to me if she was uniformly rebelling against all her naysayers, not just her uncle. Build the frustration each time it happens. Have Jennie react to it and internalize it each time. That would make it compelling and really set a strong stage for her going off and doing whatever it is you are building towards.

[krystalynn03]

Mandamon

 

Thanks for all the little edit catches!

 

5-7: the goat—I understand your concerns about the tone, and I’ll think on whether I can scale something specifically back, but seriously, the goat’s got to go or the plot won’t push forward. Leon and Will have to have an argument bad enough that Leon disappears for days, and the goat’s got to be gone or Jennie won’t have motive to do what she does in chapter 8. If there’s something specific on those pages that jumped at you, I can consider it more carefully, but otherwise, I’ll just have to consider slimming that section as a whole if it’s too bothersome. I mean, I guess I could construct another reason for the goat being gone, but nature is a very real threat, the real threat in this book, which the characters overlook later, so what might not be working for you in the short term might work in the long term. I’m not sure. But I will keep your thoughts in mind in revisions.

 

Location of the house: Jennie’s mother answered this question: and Grandpa Fullers thought being close to the cover of thick woods was safer.

 

Helene: I’m glad you don’t believe her. There’s something of truth in some of what she says, but really, she’s just being mean. The cannon is a leftover from the war of recognition eighty years ago. Would it be the best weapon? Nope. Does it feel better to have something? Yup. Was it all they could get their hands on when deciding to retreat from society completely? Yep. Is it enough to make the youngest generation of people growing up completely out of society think they’re prepared? Seem so.

 

Thanks again so much! I'm glad you read and commented!

[krystalynn03]

Well, like I said, I found your reaction very interesting, although the use of the word hate is pretty alarming, depending on how commonly one uses that word.

 

Anyway, your comment here about Jennie's variety or lack of variety of reactions makes a lot more sense than just seeing your gut reactions to characters you don't like. I do think what you're suggesting would help build the narrative in the right direction and it would probably draw these scenes to a more poignant end. That's a brilliant idea and I hadn't thought of it because I hadn't thought of Leon as sexist. I still don't. Sexism is a very modern way of thought. Jennie isn't limited because she's female; she's limited because she's young and nobody's listening to her. Leading an ox like she mentioned was really more of a boy's job. This suggests she's out in the fields with her father learning from him, not just sitting by the fire with mom patching up socks.

 

I do find the variety of reactions the more valuable thing ever. If you're comfortable with reading and commenting, go for it. I certainly don't want you to feel put off. I just wanted to extend that 'out' as it were because I didn't want you to put your time into something that elicits a 'hate' feeling. Leon's not changing. We won't see him for four or five chapters, but he'll still be stubborn and foolish as ever, regardless of modern sensibilities.

 

Thank you for being open and frank.

[krystalynn03]

Kammerite

 

Thanks again for reading and commenting!

 

Question: Did you catch why Jennie’s grandfather built near the Wildwood? If not, that’s two people who didn’t catch it, which means I’ve done some unclear, bad writing and need to fix it.

 

Breaking Point: We will see the Snatcher at the end of chapter but he won’t be a focus till chapter 9, the update after next, probably, with the 5k breakdown. (rather submit under than over). I think after the Snatcher reveal, most people will either be on board (fantasy element has arrived at last) or will exit stage left.  I guess we’ll see what happens. In some ways, it makes me the most nervous because I think it’s a polarizing element, but in other ways, I think it’ll be a relief because I think some of the historical accuracy emphasis will lessen once the fantasy gets going.

[krystalynn03]

Asmodemon,

 

Hi! Nice to meet you.

 

Yeah, Will's reaction is strong, but he is very angry. Maybe I can ease the reader's mind with some better dialogue between Jennie and her mother about it. Even if he were really going to shoot the dog, he'd still be right to. Sorry if that offends any animal rights people, but it's 19th century culture, and if something's between you and your family's safety and possibility for survival, social mores are not going to come into play. Regardless, it may be a little dark for this book.

 

The dog was mentioned as Leon's back in chapter 2, and maybe that knowledge would have flowed over better if the chapters were read back to back, rather than separated by week, but maybe not. There's a reason the dog's not home half the time. It's important (not pivotal) to the plot later, and I can't tell you why yet, but if it helps, I promise the dog's not going to get shot. Will's a terrible shot anyway.

 

Thanks for commenting with useful insights, but I hope my clarification of future use of the dog helps.

[Kammererite]

 

Question: Did you catch why Jennie’s grandfather built near the Wildwood? If not, that’s two people who didn’t catch it, which means I’ve done some unclear, bad writing and need to fix it.

 

Yes i did get that he moved there for hiding in the woods, although i did not find that a very logical reason. Their is safety in numbers. Sure you can hid in the woods but so can something else. Then again as i don't know the lore on snatchers i can easily be mistaken on this point.   

[krystalynn03]

Granny Jane will give Jenni the truth about Snatchers, even though we won't see one for a 1 1/2 more chapters yet, but I thinks gives enough true info about them in the next chapter that it'll help? I guess I'll find out next week as long as you're still along for the ride and have time to let me know if that fixes it. Thanks!

[Robinski]

"dagnabbit, that varmit dog's gone and vamoosed with the goat!"

Rofl! Walter Brennan lives!!

(You young whippersnappers will have to Youtube him, but he is one of only 3 men to have won 3 acting oscars, a staple of westerns of the 40's and 50's. Daniel Day Lewis and Jack Nicholson, if you're wondering, but Katherine Hepburn has 4, of course!)

Anywho, I'm posting to say that, since I'm alphareading Roamwald, I not be posting in this thread - most likely, but I wouldn't want anyone to think I was being remiss

[krystalynn03]

I don't know who that is, but feeling like a whippersnapper (I'm not) is good!

[Mandamon]

Rofl! Walter Brennan lives!!

I didn't recognize the name, but I'm terrible with actor's names.  After looking him up though, his is sort of the picture I had in mind when writing that!  I must have seen him in something.

[Robinski]

Check out his John Wayne impersonation... from Rio Bravo (starring John Wayne, of course).

...and sorry, this is soooo of topic. I apologise, Krystalynn.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Robinski

[krystalynn03]

No apologies needed... Pop culture lessons are appropriate

[Robinski]

Lol, is it pop culture when it's 50+ years old?

#oldcodger

Edited April 4, 2016 by Robinski

[krystalynn03]

Sure. Pop culture is just popular culture, and I suppose this was popular entertainment 50 years ago.

[rdpulfer]

Apologies for the late read but I took last week off

 

- The new names and the dialects definitely give this a more American feel right off the bat, at least to distinguish it from a regular Middle Age European setting.

 

- The pacing works so far. I like the urgency once Bandit is accused of killing Jasmine.

 

- Chapter Five moves a long at a nice pace, but it does feel a little disjointed compared to the intrigue of the past few chapters.

 

- I did like Helene's description of the Snatchers, and that you are sort of mythologizing them before they appear again.

 

- Overall, I really like this story. I like the description and the set-up - I just hope there isn't too much of a wait until something else happens. 

[krystalynn03]

Hey, good to hear from you. Glad you made time to read.

 

Chapter 5; Originally, 5 was one with 6, but I thought it oddly long compared to the others. So far, it's the only chapter with a setting change. Is that what feels disjointed?

 

I would like to do the next update in another 3 chapter segment, but I futzed with it all week trying to get it under 5k, and I just can't. It's about 500 words over, and I don't want to just do chapter 7/8 because chapter 9 is when 'the Snatcher' shows up and actually does stuff, and I didn't want to drag out the set up for another week...so I didn't submit this week because I couldn't decide what to do...

[rdpulfer]

That could be the issue. I think the pacing slows down so dramatically compared to previous chapters, it feels a bit noticeable. It's still very breezy though, so it's not a huge issue.