Long Game 19: Twinborn City

[Amanuensis]

No PMs for me either. I have some other comments I want to make but I'll save them for after I take my shower.

 

EDIT: Alright, so about those comments.

 

@GMs: If a Spiked, a villager and I are the only ones in a room and the Spiked puts in the command "[2] Attack a villager who is NOT Aman" would that guarantee they kill the other villager? Or will you not accept orders like that?

 

@All: I think it's essential that we try to evenly split players up across the rooms. The less people we have in a single room the easier it will be catch Spiked when we make a kill. Obviously this isn't like MR12 where we all get told whose in a room with us, but with a roving Tineye we should be able to eventually catch players in lies. To supplement this I think we need to make public what room we intend to go to / or are in at the start of every turn. Sure, it allows the Spiked to know where we are (making it easier for them to select their targets) but it also gives us information that can dramatically help us narrow down their identities.

 

If it turns out the Spiked can ruin my Tineye confirmation plan than I suggest we go with the one plan Lopen suggested in MR12 where we base the location players go to on their assigned player list number. Reason I'm okay with it this game as opposed to MR12 is there is nothing special about each individual room, except for the item searching which as far as we are aware are all currently the same. Also because we do not get told by the GMs every turn whose in a location with us the Spiked can easily lie about it to avoid suspicion. That being said, it will also look very suspicious if, let's say, Meta, Gamma, Wilson and myself are all meant to go to B3 and Meta then dies in that room, so Gamma claims that he decided to go to C2 instead, leaving Wilson and I as the only suspects. While it's possible a villager would do that, I can't understand a reason why they would, besides maybe to narrow down the true suspect. At the same time it'd be more likely that a Spiked would just say that to not get lynched. But yeah. Thoughts?

Edited March 30, 2016 by Amanuensis

[STINK]

I don't have a PM, due to ya know, being asleep when it was posted  

[Haelbarde]

@Ada:

From memory, in LG 11, most people stayed in B2, so when Twei collapsed the ceiling, something like two dozen players died. Spreading out may be a good idea...

[Kynedath]

I don't have a PM, due to ya know, being asleep when it was posted

Same here.

[STINK]

Also, do you know what else is happening Uptown?

 

Funk

[Kynedath]

Ohhhh, you little bugger! How DARE you! I  will have your head on a pike for this!

[phattemer]

@GMs: If a Spiked, a villager and I are the only ones in a room and the Spiked puts in the command "[2] Attack a villager who is NOT Aman" would that guarantee they kill the other villager? Or will you not accept orders like that?

Yeah, you can't do that.

A few reminders from LG11 that did not make it into the rules.

Pair of Spikes is an awesome item.

You may have a contingency for actions that require a target in case your target is not in the same area. This does not work if the action would fail for any other reason.

[Amanuensis]

Yeah, you can't do that.

 

Okay, perfect. So if there's someone Allomantic Tin, come with me to B3. Everyone else stay out. Once you trust me we can start talking about setting up a system to keep you protected as you roam from room to room to see whose where and catch them in any lies when it comes to making kills.

[Arrae]

Kae

 

The streets were emptier than usual, the natural result of a homicide at a party. Kae hadn't been there -- his feruchemy wasn't the type that could be shown off -- but Verre had been there. That, more than anything else, scared him.

 

And he wasn't the only one. Someone had called an emergency meeting in the center of the city to discuss how to catch the killer, and Kae, unemployed as he was, had nothing better to do than to listen to it.

 

Most people seemed at a loss at what to do. The only plans seemed to involve tineyes or windwhispers spying on people to see if any of them committed more murders or conspired with other people who were (presumably) murderers.

 

"I have feruchemical duraluminum!" Siaron announced. "A tineye should come with me to confirm that I was not the murderer."

 

Kae hesitated. This plan seemed no better than Kwon's plan with the spying. "Just because you have feruchemical duraluminum doesn't mean you can't be a killer," he said. "Your plan will only tell us if you have feruchemical duraluminum. In fact, that would be a perfect thing for a murderer to have."

 

A few people looked Kae's way, and he paused. "For Kwon's plan, what if the windwhispers don't have any stores left in their metalminds? They'd have to store some senses first and then use those stored senses for Kwon's plan to work. Will there be enough time to do that?"

 

---

 

Okay, perfect. So if there's someone Allomantic Tin, come with me to B3. Everyone else stay out. Once you trust me we can start talking about setting up a system to keep you protected as you roam from room to room to see whose where and catch them in any lies when it comes to making kills.

Wrong quote, but I referenced the right one in the RP above and I have no time to change this one. Just because you haven't lied about your feruchemy doesn't mean you can't be an eliminator.

 

Yeah, last time there were some crazy time-manipulation shenanigans the first night. Clanky is trying to avoid that.

 

@Rae: Let's say you aren't in any PMs, and I'm a Windwhisper. I try to listen in on your PM and doc conversation. You aren't in any PMs, so unless you're in a doc, I can't hear anything from you. If I get no response back, you're a guaranteed Twinborn. If I get a response back, you're a Spiked, a kandra, or a liar. I wouldn't recommend that last.

 

@GMs: Can someone store feruchemical tin in their first action period and use their stores in their second action period of the same night?

[Amanuensis]

Two things: First, Identity = Aluminum, Connection = Durulumin. Second, you're right that telling the truth about my Feruchemical ability doesn't mean I'm not an eliminator, but when I tap the metalmind it will reveal my alignment to the Tin Eye. That's the point of me conceiving this plan.

[Master Elodin]

Two things: First, Identity = Aluminum, Connection = Durulumin. Second, you're right that telling the truth about my Feruchemical ability doesn't mean I'm not an eliminator, but when I tap the metalmind it will reveal my alignment to the Tin Eye. That's the point of me conceiving this plan.

If the Tin guy dies, so do you.

[Elbereth]

 

@GMs: Can someone store feruchemical tin in their first action period and use their stores in their second action period of the same night?

Yes.

[Amanuensis]

If the Tin guy dies, so do you.

 

Well, obviously. Which should be point enough to prove that I'm innocent. Why conceive a plan like this as an eliminator? Would only get me killed in a few cycles.

[yafeshan]

I guess similar things happened in other games. Someone lure an innocent soul to certain location and kill, and tineye can be a quite good target if you are eliminator. Also confirming your metal here will not convince most people since such things require some sort of proof before trusting. You can still tap identity without relocating to another room and tineye can identify you, since you announced it here.

[Master Elodin]

Well, obviously. Which should be point enough to prove that I'm innocent. Why conceive a plan like this as an eliminator? Would only get me killed in a few cycles.

You might conceive such a plan since it seems like something no eliminator would do. Then you could get your eliminator buddies to reject the plan so that you didn't need to be confirmed but people trusted you more as you offered to do this.

[Wonko the Sane]

 To supplement this I think we need to make public what room we intend to go to / or are in at the start of every turn.

 

I disagree emphatically. Such a plan could benefit only the Spiked. You pinpointed the issue when you mentioned that we don't get informed of who's in the room with us. That makes this a completely different situation than MR12. There is absolutely no incentive for the Spiked not to lie about their location. We aren't even guaranteed to have a tineye, and if we do, it'll be a long time before they're able to catch anyone in a lie.

 

Remember also that unlike in MR12, you can be in as many as four different rooms in a single cycle. The three-period format makes this game very unique. It's almost like we get three nights between every day.

 

I agree that we should spread out, but revealing our locations is a bad idea -- one that the Spiked suggested last time, I might add.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Wonko the Sane

[Amanuensis]

I disagree emphatically. Such a plan could benefit only the Spiked. You pinpointed the issue when you mentioned that we don't get informed of who's in the room with us. That makes this a completely different situation than MR12. There is absolutely no incentive for the Spiked not to lie about their location. We aren't even guaranteed to have a tineye, and if we do, it'll be a long time before they're able to catch anyone in a lie.

Remember also that unlike in MR12, you can be in as many as four different rooms in a single cycle. The three-period format makes this game very unique. It's almost like we get three nights between every day.

I agree that we should spread out, but revealing our locations is a bad idea -- one that the Spiked suggested last time, I might add.

What happened to public knowledge always benefiting the village more? And in my opinion village protective roles will be infinitely more effective if they know who is going where as well. If we know where high priority players are we are more likely going to block a Spiked kill than otherwise. To me this sounds more like you're afraid of you or your teammates being found out.

I guess similar things happened in other games. Someone lure an innocent soul to certain location and kill, and tineye can be a quite good target if you are eliminator. Also confirming your metal here will not convince most people since such things require some sort of proof before trusting. You can still tap identity without relocating to another room and tineye can identify you, since you announced it here.

Problem with staying in the starting room is that the Spiked are most likely going to attack someone there than any where else, therefore I would rather not put myself at risk. That being said, I have a second strategy regarding my allomantic ability I've thought of that could benefit the village a lot more, which I'm also okay with revealing, which basically amounts to me using my metal for all of my night actions until I'm a Savant. Thoughts? Edited March 30, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Wonko the Sane]

What happened to public knowledge always benefiting the village more? And in my opinion village protective roles will be infinitely more effective if they know who is going where as well. If we know where high priority players are we are more likely going to block a Spiked kill than otherwise. To me this sounds more like you're afraid of you or your teammates being found out.

 

You're right, of course, but by doing this, we open ourselves to heavy misinformation and manipulation. If we could guarantee that the Village has a tineye, I might be more amenable to your plan.

 

With the free group PMs in this game (after a couple of cycles of Operation Windwhisper), forming trust circles is incredibly easy, which means that it's a lot easier to share information with only those you trust. If it was between sharing information and keeping it to yourself, I would pick sharing. But it's not; there are far better avenues for information distribution in this game.

 

It's possible my perspective is skewed. The first time I played this game, I was a kandra, which meant I had something to hide, publicly, and the only safe way for me to communicate freely was by PM group. That's the origin of Team Twindra. If the rest of you agree that revealing our locations is a good idea, I'll comply -- but I think it's a mistake.

[yafeshan]

revealing positions sounds nice but there is also possibility for spiked to have bronze / enhanced bronze and pinpoint twinborns to charge spikes, That can lead to a op spiked group

[Amanuensis]

The way I see it is villagers should have no reason to lie. If they're honest about where they go and we all work together, we should be able to predict the actions of the Spiked and manage our resources in counter. But as always this is a team game and everything I bring up should be discussed by the masses and debated upon in order for us to decide what's the best course of action, and in my opinion seeing everyone's stances on strategies is just as telling, if not more than, lynches are.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Arrae]

Kae

 

"Two things", Siaron said. "First, I have aluminum, not duraluminum. Second, when I tap my metalmind it'll show that I don't have the same identity as the killer. That's the point of me conceiving this plan."

 

"Sorry about that," Kae said. "I misheard. Why don't you do it out here where everybody can witness it instead of a single tineye? It's possible that it was a tineye who murdered Swift -- but if they didn't, revealing themselves for them to tell everybody else that you aren't the killer could put them at risk. If I've remembered my textbooks right, you could spend a third of the night here in this square filling your metalmind, then spend another third showing how your identity doesn't match the killer's identity. And after that you'd have another third of the night to do whatever you want."

 

Kae had once taken a few classes on law, back when he'd wanted to be a solicitor. There had been a few classes dealing with murders and how the constables handled them. One unit had talked about cases of mass murders, like the legend of Tyrian Falls from the days before the Catecendre. And if he remembered right...

 

"It's important for us to know who we can trust," Kae said. "If the murderer is smart, he'll know that and might target you. You're probably a jucier target than some of the rest of us here, especially if you do your tapping duraluminum plan. But there's also the plan with the windwhispers. Everyone who's decided not to talk to anybody, including me, is also at risk."

 

Kae sighed. He wasn't that good with hypotheticals, so he might have missed something. Or ruined some unknown part of Siaron's plan. But Siaron's plan seemed so inefficient...

 

EDIT: changed some phrasing.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Arraenae

[Amanuensis]

I'm going to go ahead and leave my feruchemic ability alone for now and focus on becoming a Savant instead. That being said, I have zero intention to leave the starting zone. If you have Allomantic Tin, feel free to proceed with whatever plans you had before I asked you to follow me into isolation. Though once I'm a Savant I would appreciate it if we acted upon this plan, just in case people have a reason to suspect me, in order to cast any doubts about my alignment out of people's minds. Maybe by then someone else will have confirmed my alignment already. Either way, I would like to here people's thoughts on whether or not we should be secretive about our locations or not.

[Arrae]

"I don't have an opinion of whether or not we should be secretive about our locations or not," Kae said. "It could help us find the killer if there are future murders, but it's almost completely self-reported. I'd prefer for us to give our locations, but in Verre's words, it's because I'm a truthful idiot who isn't happy unless the whole world knows my opinion."

[Mailliw73]

Mailliw and DeathClutch, do you have a PM with each other? Or with different players? If it's with other players, then could you tell us so we know that they're unable to be scanned?

 

If you have more than just one PM, could you reveal who all you started a PM with, or who you're in a PM with?

Since we live next to each other, we almost always have a PM so that we can talk. And I've been planning to make PMs with others, but I can refrain for now, if you all want me to. It's just him for now.

 

The way I see it is villagers should have no reason to lie. 

Ha. Ha ha. Hahahahaha. 

"The best liars are those who tell the truth most of the time."

Edited March 30, 2016 by Mailliw73

[Wonko the Sane]

You can PM anyone who has already announced that they are in a PM without damaging the scan. So far, that's you, DC, me, and Lopen.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Wonko the Sane