The Shards are gay: wierd vibes

[Pathfinder]

Heterosexual relationships vs homosexual relationships are no different than same race relationships vs interracial relationships. To the people involved, it is just a relationship. No unique title required. It is when a family is disapproving that it becomes "different". It is when a politician passes a law that it becomes "different". It is when a religion says it is a sin that it becomes "different". I understand you are in no way, shape, or form stating you think it is different Argent, just I feel by focusing on it being so difficult because it is "different" prevents a lot of authors from touching the subject, for fear of portraying it badly, so it continues to be viewed as "different". Personally I am a straight heterosexual white male that is currently engaged to a straight heterosexual Hispanic female. Just because of these facts, does not mean I cannot see and understand that a relationship is a relationship regardless who is involved (assuming of course those involved are consenting adults of course). Hopefully I conveyed myself properly and did not come off confrontational. 

[Argent]

Yeah, it's fine, man. I understand that people treat homosexuality as something special because people believe it to be something special, not because it inherently is. It's easier for us to talk about this, than for Brandon to write a character - he, or any other author, would need to have a far better understanding about whether, how, and why his character is different, and ultimately the two of us don't have this kind of intimate knowledge. A good example is writing short and tall characters - neither is significantly different from your average character, but every person who is noticeably taller or shorter than those around them is just more aware of their own height. They don't think about it all the time, but they notice it more often. If you are of somewhat average height, you wouldn't notice whether a character is making note of other people's heights a little more often than usual; for somebody on either side of the average, it's one of those small things that make the character relatable. 

 

It's this kind of stuff that makes a character believable, not the big things. Which is why I am sure there are aspects, maybe small ones, to the people in a homosexual relationship that would push from being believable to you and me, and being believable to someone with the necessary personal experience to pass judgment. 

[KidWayne]

Heterosexual relationships vs homosexual relationships are no different than same race relationships vs interracial relationships. To the people involved, it is just a relationship. No unique title required...

Man, I'm a little nervous about rejoining this conversation, but I feel like I have something substantive to add. Your first sentence there kind of helps illustrate a link between these two types of relationships that is relevant to the conversation about the necessity of experience. That link is culture.

Here in the United States, it's not uncommon for broad racial groups to identify with a single culture or a relatively small set of cultures. Each of these culture groups may have a large number of subcultures, but there isn't a lot of variation in the broader culture groups. For this reason, it's common for interracial couples to experience a little bit more culture shock when their backgrounds clash than couples who come from the same race.

The race element here is a shortcut. The exact same thing could happen when a Buddhist marries an Orthodox Jew, or when a world-travelling bloke from the UK gets involved with a never-been-off-the-ranch type of girl from Texas. A lot of these clashes don't happen in the context of a dating relationship, but when you start bringing your sweetheart home to mom and dad or when you begin to start a family a lot of couples discover that they (or their families) have unspoken expectations that may be mutually exclusive of their partner's preferences. It's not the skin-tone; it's the culture.

I'd argue that each letter in the LGBT acronym represents a different sub-culture in a larger homosexual culture group. Furthermore, I'd argue that straight men are less likely to take an interest in the proclivities and inclinations of gay men than vice versa - simply because straight men enjoy the privilege of heteronormativity. Most straight men don't have to learn how to fit in with gay men, but almost all gay men have to learn how to fit into a heteronormative society.

So, when an author needs either experience or interest to guide him in penning a novel, a typical straight male author will be hard pressed to convincingly write a story about a gay character.

[Pathfinder]

We have resulted in a loop. It goes right back to Kingsdaughter613 and my posts. It is an issue if it is important to the story to be an issue. Would it be viewed as so difficult to write a LGBT character if the world that character is in was accepting of that? No worry about how their parents see them? No worry about a law forbidding how you feel? No worry about a religion damning you? The race is not a short cut. It was viewed as abhorrent in its time (and somewhat still to this day), but when a couple......actually no. Not going to repeat myself. I stated how I felt in the previous posts. Rather not beat a dead horse. I respect everyone's thoughts, and I hope you all respect my own. 

[the winter system]

Look, as a biromantic gay girl who has never been in a relationship with someone of the game gender, I would prefer him making a main character bi or gay and researching LGBT relationships before hand than only putting them in minor roles. The whole 'they exist, but we'll only give you a few of them and hide them in minor roles' is sort of rude. I want him to try. 

Also, a note, can you call it a same gender relationship? Us bi people are in same gender relationships too. 

[Kingsdaughter613]

Hetero, I believe, means different, while homosexual is the same. Homosexual relationship means same sex relationship. So I'm not sure what you want?

The sexuality of the people involved has nothing to do with the meaning. I could be a lesbian in heterosexual relationship. Do I need a special term for that?

Brandon has said that he does not feel he is capable of writing such a character well just yet. He worked for years on writing women before he was published. I'd prefer he wait until he is comfortable with how such characters turn out on paper. You start with minor and work to major.

There's also the political issues. If I was an author I would refrain from writing an LGBQ character until it was no longer such a political topic. You can easily run into heavy fire from both sides. Why open yourself to attack?

Personally, I'd prefer waiting for it to be done right. So far most authors have disappointed me in that regard. I like how Brandon has written his LGBQ characters so far, and don't mind their lesser role. Ranette is wonderful and feels real. Would I like to see more of her? Yes, but not because of her sexuality. It's because she's a great character with a great personality and background.

And I did not drop the T by accident. Transsexuality is a very complicated matter and writing one would require both tact and a LOT of research. There are a lot of psychological and neurological components to it that are not present in homosexuals. (I've honestly never been able to understand why the T is there. Some trans people are LGBQ, but it is really not the same thing.)

Edited May 19, 2016 by Kingsdaughter613

[the winter system]

Hetero, I believe, means different, while homosexual is the same. Homosexual relationship means same sex relationship. So I'm not sure what you want?

I get that it's supposed to be the same gender meaning, but many people don't see it that way.  Besides, bi people have been erased a LOT. I would prefer a simple 'same gender' relationship. 

The sexuality of the people involved has nothing to do with the meaning. I could be a lesbian in heterosexual relationship. Do I need a special term for that?

Brandon has said that he does not feel he is capable of writing such a character well just yet. He worked for years on writing women before he was published. I'd prefer he wait until he is comfortable with how such characters turn out on paper. You start with minor and work to major.

There's also the political issues. If I was an author I would refrain from writing an LGBQ character until it was no longer such a political topic. You can easily run into heavy fire from both sides. Why open yourself to attack?

Maybe because there is practically no queer visibility in the media and you shouldn't run into attack from the LGBT community if you're doing it right? Maybe write about it as no big deal because it is political. The personal is political. That applies to writing. I've never seen someone who shares my sexuality in the media. Really, it's easy, if you care. 

Personally, I'd prefer waiting for it to be done right. So far most authors have disappointed me in that regard. I like how Brandon has written his LGBQ characters so far, and don't mind their lesser role. Ranette is wonderful and feels real. Would I like to see more of her? Yes, but not because of her sexuality. It's because she's a great character with a great personality and background.

And I did not drop the T by accident. Transsexuals are a very complicated matter and writing one would require both tact and a LOT of research. There are a lot of psychological and neurological components to it that are not present in homosexuals. (I've honestly never been able to understand why the T is there. Some trans are LGBQ, but it is really not the same thing.)

Please stop calling trans people transsexuals. Call them transgender or transsexual people. Same with gay people instead of homosexuals. It's actually a slur, though I don't think you knew that. Also, trans people really don't have enough awareness. I get that it's not really the same thing, but they do need somewhere and there isn't currently enough awareness about them to have them drop the T. If you are trans, feel free to, but since you're not, just leave it there. Or talk to a transgender person about it. And please say 'bi and gay.' Bi folks exist and we're even less common than mono folks. This isn't an attack on you, I just don't think you're aware of some of the stuff you're saying. 

[Kingsdaughter613]

That was supposed to say transsexuality. My stupid computer 'fixed' the word. I'll go fix it. (Spellcheck..grrr...) My point wasn't that they don't count, but that gender identity and sexual preference are two separate things and writing a character who is trans is very different than one who is bisexual or homosexual. (HOW is that a slur? It's simply a more clinical term and is basically a description. Just like heterosexual.) Transsexuality is irrelevant in this conversation so I'm not including the T. I also feel that conflating the two is damaging to both groups. The issues faced are so different but by merging them the public gains a false impression that they are related or the same when there is really no connection beyond merged advocacy groups. So if I am referring to the homosexual and bisexual communities I do not include the T. If I am including the transsexual community as well I include the T. I don't know how well that came across and typos did NOT help.

(Note: do not try typing when two year old is wrecking house... Sigh... What did I expect from the kid who named his Stitch doll Ati?!)

To address your other point:

It's great your willing to take that risk. Not everyone is willing or capable of doing so. I would be afraid to. You wouldn't. That doesn't make me horrible or you a great, it just makes us different and that's wonderful. But you can't demand someone else take the risk. That isn't fair to them.

And doing it right is, apparently, hard, to go by all the awful ones I've read. Brandon has said he wants do it right and will not make a major character homosexual until he is certain he has it right. I'm perfectly happy to wait. A better question is why we don't have a homosexual writer writing a homosexual character. I'm pretty sure they'd do it well. A bisexual writer could write us a well done bi character. It's easiest to write what you know.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Kingsdaughter613

[the winter system]

I guess. I'm pretty sure I think you spelled it "homosexuals," though. Here's a good article on why it's harmful: http://www.glaad.org/reference/offensive

I guess it's a personal difference. 

[DeadFencer]

I get the feeling Wayne is pansexual. He did seem to be attracted to MeLaan in her male form, after all.

[the winter system]

I get the feeling Wayne is pansexual. He did seem to be attracted to MeLaan in her male form, after all.

Wayne is Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who... mindblown. (Look him up)

[Kingsdaughter613]

I think Wayne is attracted to personalities, as opposed to physical attributes. So for him physical attraction would be secondary to the personality. Some people are like that (like me) where the gender (and other attributes) of the person is a distant second to who they are.

[DeadFencer]

Is that not basically pansexuality.

[Kingsdaughter613]

Not exactly. It depends on how you are using the term, as it can mean several different things.