3/21/16 -krystalynn03- Roamwald C1-3 (3747)

[krystalynn03]

Sorry I didn't post the topic thread sooner. I wasn't sure if I needed an 'ok' to submit first. Thanks.

[Shadowfax]

Sorry I didn't post the topic thread sooner. I wasn't sure if I needed an 'ok' to submit first. Thanks.

 

I believe usually you need the go-ahead from Silk. I think I assumed you had one in a PM since you submitted xD But, we only had 3 other submitters this week, so there probably won't be any complaints.

 

I ended up falling asleep and taking a nap, so I'm just now going to do my re-read w/ commentary and then I'll post it. I read it the first time, as a single read-through and now I'll go ahead and pick out the bits that stand out in one way or another.

[krystalynn03]

Ah, I wasn't sure since I didn't hear back on the thread yet. I didn't think it would send out until it was okayed and forwarded. Hopefully I haven't committed a terrible faux pas...

[Shadowfax]

“but as he was working higher up the mountain in the cover of night”  The fireflies in the next half of sentence tell us it’s night time, and so this is a little unnecessary. Cutting this would also make this section a little less wordy.

 

Also, “little fireflies of light” sounds awkward. A possible suggestion, drop the “of light” here and add the words “lights” after flickering. There are of course other ways, this is just a suggestion.

 

“The closest he could come to the town itself without being seen was not very close. He stood at the edge of the forest hidden amongst the trees. Luckily, he didn’t have to get too close to town to see any houses” There is a lot of the word “close” in here. It’s a large sentence, and a bit unwieldy. I had to read it a few times to really picture it properly. Is the character trying to get close or trying to not get too close? It isn’t very clear.

 

“Jenni Fullers”… So the naming. Is this an alternate type Earth? The descriptions, setting, and language suggest a pioneering era of humanity, possibly late 1870s-1890s. “Jenni” was not a name then. Jennifer didn’t become a well used girls name until the 1920s and even then it didn’t rise in popularity until the 1980s. This clashes with the more traditional names of May and Hanna. Jon is a derivative of Jonathan with is a long derivation of the name Nathan. Nathan and Hanna are both names from the Christian Bible (as is Daniel –baby Dan-). May is a name used from a Roman calendar and the month was named after a Roman goddess. Will is a form of William which is Germanic in origin. So you essentially have a family built of names from many different origins, which my brain rebels against in a pioneer type setting in a fantasy novel. The reason so many fantasy novelist create their own names and systems is to keep this from happening. However, if this IS simply Earth, but a bit different, then Hannah and May are fine, Jon is a bit of a stretch as that form of the name wasn’t used widely during that era and Jenni… just no. Especially not with an “i” which is a seriously modern adaptation.

 

Sorry about the name lecture! But, naming is incredibly important to overall feeling and setting in books. Naming conventions are part of the worldbuilding and are part of what help readers submerse ourselves into a book. I was literally jarred every time I read Jenni’s name at how out of place it was. If this isn’t a version of Earth, then I’m even less likely to accept the names, as those names have very specific origins. Most people know these origins, as the names are very common.

 

That being said, the language itself was done well, as was the dialogue. That’s one of the reasons some of the names just didn’t work for me. You are doing a good job of placing us in a certain time. But all the elements really should consistently work on keeping readers submerged into that time.

 

Larkspur… the name of the goat. I understand naming the goat after a flower. The larkspur plant is native to Western Europe, the Mediterranean region and Asia. So in your version of this Earth-planet, are we in a Western Europe type zone? The language lends itself more towards American frontier.

 

“Their valley was surrounded by mountains on every side” The setting was absolutely believable until you wrote this. I was raised and grew up in a valley surrounded on all sides by mountains (we were at about 6500 ft above sea level). Those areas are not rich farmlands, they are deserts. We got snow only occasionally, and it was never more than an inch or two even after the worst storm. We didn’t have forests on the inside of the mountain ranges. Where I grew up, it basically looked like the old west. We had dirt, sagebrush, Joshua trees, and tumbleweeds and if we spent a lot of money on water, some yards had grass. We could wear shorts in December and we had droughts in summer, but all our food came from the other side of the mountains. If you want to keep your setting, I suggest opening up the valley and taking part of the mountains away. This will let the rains and snow come, which will help develop farmland. May want to do some research to find out which direction the weather would come from so you know which mountains to deal with. All that said, I wish my mountain valley had been rich farmland and trees, maybe I wouldn’t have hated it so much

 

“When she was younger, they had had a horse, too” It would make more sense if they’d had a second ox, as oxen are generally bought, trained, and used in pairs and are much more valuable on a farm for tilling and such than a horse would be. But, this is very minor and just my opinion. I do like that they had to trade it off for medicine though. Seems very era-specific and is a good detail.

 

“Jenni knew him.” This sentence is unnecessary here, as she immediately uses his name in the next sentence.

 

Chilblains… Nowhere near as severe as frostbite and in the weather they’re having, frostbite seems more likely. That said, it’s an interesting twist on the normal “oh it’s freezing, give them frostbite” cliché. That said chilblains usually occurs in non-freezing weather. Also, butter? Is this a country remedy popular in your world (and if so, please tell us this). As generally, you want to keep affected skin dry, avoid rapid changes in temperature and, in the pioneering type time era we seem to be in, iodine would be a more common treatment. If the use of butter is only to make the small amount of goat milk gathered up seem even smaller… it’s a bit of a stretch. It will take hours to make butter and by then, his skin will be warmed, dried and on its way to feeling better. It takes 1 to 2 weeks to be completely over chilblains but keeping the skin dry, moderately warm and away from temperature changes will pretty much do it fine. If you want a food-using remedy, there’s one from the medieval time period using eggs, fennel root and wine.

 

“Jenni lifted the churn from its corner” Uhm, no. This girl is a half-starved 10 year old. She’s not lifting a churn that’s large enough to set in the corner of a room on the floor. Unless she has some magical power or strength or something, but we’ve had no indication that magic exists in this world.

 

“The skin of his nose and cheeks shone bright yellowish-red” Chilblains actually leaves the skin a darker red to blue color.

 

The “no one believes the drunk guy” cliché… This would have more impact if we had a better reason why Will doesn’t trust Jon.

 

​----

 

All that having been said… The Snatcher idea is interesting, and obviously is affecting Jenni and I’m curious how that plays out. I have a good feel of the time era, with the few inconsistencies I mentioned above.

 

The descriptions are adequate. The chapters are short, and if you decided to add to them, I’d suggest adding a few more details of the world in general to give us a better feel of the rugged lifestyle, the fashion, or even general appearances of the characters. Hair color? Skin tone? Clothing style? It will help sell the characters, mood and setting even further.

I could really enjoy this book. The story is good so far, but the world needs work to make it believable.

 

For the specific questions in your mail:

• Does the foreshadowing in chapter one work for you? I didn’t catch on to any :/
• Does the perspective change work for you from C1 to C2? (We don't see that character again for multiple chapters, but he does come back--it's not a one time thing--there are two protagonists, not one) As an avid reader of fantasy I am used to different chapters in different PoVs. This isn’t an issue.
• How does the pacing feel? The pacing is good. There is a constant movement forward with the action and plot.
• Did the chapter breaks feel well-spaced to you? The chapters are short, which is fine if you intend to keep that up throughout the book.
• Would you put the book down or keep going? I’m interested enough in the Snatcher to read a little more and see what the payoff is for that plotline.
• Does anything feel illogical to you? (see above notes)
• Does the language sufficiently convey the time period I'm trying to suggest? (Tell me what era you think it's imitating?) (again, answered above)

 

Thank you for your submission and for trusting us with it. I look forward to reading more!

[kais]

Initial impressions as I read:

- science aside: many people consider cedar smells to be very irritating (with good reason, the aromatic extractives are hella toxic). 'Cheery' would not be a word I would go to for cedar.

 

- on page five, mention of the baby still screaming and screaming. How long have they been having low food? Most infants will cease crying out of hunger if the period has gone long enough. Just something to think about. It could be more devastating for the reader to read about a quiet baby staring blankly at nothing than a screaming one.

 

- The passive voice and extended sentences keep pushing me out of the narrative. Many of your descriptive sentences have a few too many clauses to make them easy reads.

 

 

To answer your questions:
Does the foreshadowing in chapter one work: To an extent. I find it unmemorable and had to go back and reread it to answer the question. It gives some context to chapter two, but takes away from the tension chapter two should cause, since we already have empathy for the whatever. That makes the mystery and terror we should feel when we empathize with the girl less.

 

Does the perspective change work: Yes. I had no trouble with it.

 

Pacing: Works right now.

 

Chapter break spacing: Seems logical.

 

Put book down or keep going: The sister interaction is the part that has my interest. I'd be more interested if chapter one hadn't given me empathy for the scary thing. Because of chapter one, I feel like I already know where the story is going. I might give it another chapter to see if the relationships between the protag and her sister evolves, or if another secondary character comes in the engage me. It wouldn't be enough for me to buy it from a bookstore.

 

Illogical: Sentence structure. It was hard to stay in the narrative

 

Language: It sounds like uneducated farm people, but I don't get a decent sense of time. Moreso I get a sense of economic status and rural living.

[krystalynn03]

Thank you both for replying with so many thoughts and suggestions. I'm chewing on your critiques like to reply more in depth, but we've got parent night where I work tonight, and I might not have time to get back to you till tomorrow, so I want to say a quick thanks now before heading off to work.

[Mandamon]

Welcome to Reading Excuses!  Glad to have you on board.

On posting, usually if the spaces aren't full there's no problem.  Silk tends to be in and out, depending on her schedule, so as long as the critiquers agree, we don't have any problems with posting before confirmation.

 

 

Looks like Shadowfax and kaisa have most things tied up.  I didn't notice nearly as many logical issues (And Shadowfax--I need to get your take on names in the next thing I submit!)

 

 

On to your questions:

 

Does the foreshadowing in chapter one work for you?

--If you mean warnings about the weather not being right and the Snatcher being not as mean as reputed, then yes.

 

Does the perspective change work for you from C1 to C2? (We don't see that character again for multiple chapters, but he does come back--it's not a one time thing--there are two protagonists, not one)

--Didn't bother me so far.  The first chapter felt sort of like a prologue, but I was aware the character would most likely pop up again soon.

 

How does the pacing feel? 

--Didn't bother me.  There's rising tension through all three chapters, and I assume it will release when Jenni meets him.

 

Did the chapter breaks feel well-spaced to you? 

--Didn't have a problem with them.

 

Would you put the book down or keep going?

--Definitely keep going at this point.  You've got a good hook with the first chapter, and Jenni, though not a striking character, is relateable.  

 

Does anything feel illogical to you?

--Not yet.  Didn't see any plot holes.  As kaisa said, some of the sentence structure was a little awkward, especially near the beginning (I also noticed the fireflies and multiple "clear"s that Shadowfax did).

 

Does the language sufficiently convey the time period I'm trying to suggest? (Tell me what era you think it's imitating?)

--The dialect is sort of "little house on the prairie" and makes me definitely put this in a YA category.  it also frustrates me a little to read it, what with all the slang and "mountainfolk" terminology.  Seems kind of cliched, though it works by itself.  Sounds like late 1800s/early 1900s.

 

Anything else?

pg 4: trees shaking wrongly - the phrasing here sounds like Jenni is shaking wrongly, not the trees.

[rdpulfer]

Welcome to the group!

 

- I liked that you indirectly describe the character in the first chapter. He's not human. He leaves deep tracks in the snow, so he's probably something big. 

 

- Setting kinda confuses me. I'm guessing this is semi-traditional, rural fantasy, but a name like Jenni Fullers sounds surprisingly modern. A farmhouse works okay in both settings.

 

- The setting is better explained in the second chapter, but I'd like to get a sense of the general setting in the first one.

 

- I like Jenni's "conversation" with the cows.

 

- I really like the pacing, as we go from getting the milk straight into Uncle Jon's story. 

 

- I'm really curious what a Snatcher is. I'd definitely like to read more. 

[Robinski]

Welcome to Reading Excuses, as Douglas Addams would say, we are mostly harmless...

 

I'm enjoying your story. I like the simplicity of the setting so far. You convey the harsh conditions of life well, and the characters are sketched out quickly and well, so we have enough detail to place them and have some feeling for them from the start. Jenni’s form of speech works well for me, not overdone, I think, but strengthening my immersion in the setting.

 

The pace is good, things are happening, reactions feel right.  The watching presence is intriguing and I want to learn what’s going on. I find myself reading through very easily, good strong prose, direct, not laden with description, but I think that’s fine, because I have a good image of a cabin and I can work with that.

 

Looking forward to another submission next week. I'm interested to know if you’ve finished this project, or how much you have to submit. I would very much like to read deeper into the story.

 

The snatcher is not define of course. The name is suitably scary, and yet it was the one note in Chapter 3 that made me stop. I think I put it with child-snatcher and an image of a bad person, but not a large monster. I think snatcher sounds smaller, less dramatic somehow than a huge beast that rips up trees.

 

Good job!

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Chapter 1

 

“The closest he could come to the town itself without being seen was not very close.” – Awkward wording.

 

I like the description, you paint a good picture and I can visualise the setting, but I would have liked to know the world was white with snow much earlier on, as it’s a major factor in perceiving the setting, and I had to change my perception (of a spring-like setting) halfway down the page.

 

And now I learn that there is a storm, which changes my perception again. I think these things would be better up front to establish straight away that there’s a winter storm going on.

 

Chapter 2

 

I like the swarm of cats, but you differentiate them from her friends, the animals. Cats are animals too! And are they not her friends?

 

Wait, wait – the baby’s called Dan and the Ox is called Wells?! There must be a hen called Mary and a bull called Howard around here somewhere

 

Chapter 3

 

I don’t know if I was caught up in reading, or if there was nothing to comment on, or both! There was a nice tension through this chapter. The short format works really well to propel the story forward and because of the child’s viewpoint there’s not need to detailed analysis and pondering. Very well done.

[Mr. Wednesday]

The other commenters pretty much have it covered, but I'd like to just agree with Kaisa that the Chapter 1 (which actually feels more like a prologue than a first chapter) actually takes away from the impact of the Snatcher being introduced. The conversation that Jenni overhears about the Snatcher is very well done and builds nicely to the last line of the chapter, but the tension is undercut by the fact that we already have a picture of the Snatcher as a sympathetic character. Maybe in the grand scheme of things it'll work for your story to sacrifice tension for the sake of introducing him in the prologue, but after the first reading I have to say that in my opinion it would be much more effective if you switched to the Snatcher's POV in the woods after the scene with uncle Jon. In that case we would have an idea of who he is, so it would be less disorienting, and he would be far more compelling because we already know that he is feared and (presumably) misunderstood. 

[krystalynn03]

“but as he was working higher up the mountain in the cover of night”  The fireflies in the next half of sentence tell us it’s night time, and so this is a little unnecessary. Cutting this would also make this section a little less wordy.

 

Also, “little fireflies of light” sounds awkward. A possible suggestion, drop the “of light” here and add the words “lights” after flickering. There are of course other ways, this is just a suggestion.

 

“The closest he could come to the town itself without being seen was not very close. He stood at the edge of the forest hidden amongst the trees. Luckily, he didn’t have to get too close to town to see any houses” There is a lot of the word “close” in here. It’s a large sentence, and a bit unwieldy. I had to read it a few times to really picture it properly. Is the character trying to get close or trying to not get too close? It isn’t very clear.

 

“Jenni Fullers”… So the naming. Is this an alternate type Earth? The descriptions, setting, and language suggest a pioneering era of humanity, possibly late 1870s-1890s. “Jenni” was not a name then. Jennifer didn’t become a well used girls name until the 1920s and even then it didn’t rise in popularity until the 1980s. This clashes with the more traditional names of May and Hanna. Jon is a derivative of Jonathan with is a long derivation of the name Nathan. Nathan and Hanna are both names from the Christian Bible (as is Daniel –baby Dan-). May is a name used from a Roman calendar and the month was named after a Roman goddess. Will is a form of William which is Germanic in origin. So you essentially have a family built of names from many different origins, which my brain rebels against in a pioneer type setting in a fantasy novel. The reason so many fantasy novelist create their own names and systems is to keep this from happening. However, if this IS simply Earth, but a bit different, then Hannah and May are fine, Jon is a bit of a stretch as that form of the name wasn’t used widely during that era and Jenni… just no. Especially not with an “i” which is a seriously modern adaptation.

 

Sorry about the name lecture! But, naming is incredibly important to overall feeling and setting in books. Naming conventions are part of the worldbuilding and are part of what help readers submerse ourselves into a book. I was literally jarred every time I read Jenni’s name at how out of place it was. If this isn’t a version of Earth, then I’m even less likely to accept the names, as those names have very specific origins. Most people know these origins, as the names are very common.

 

That being said, the language itself was done well, as was the dialogue. That’s one of the reasons some of the names just didn’t work for me. You are doing a good job of placing us in a certain time. But all the elements really should consistently work on keeping readers submerged into that time.

 

Larkspur… the name of the goat. I understand naming the goat after a flower. The larkspur plant is native to Western Europe, the Mediterranean region and Asia. So in your version of this Earth-planet, are we in a Western Europe type zone? The language lends itself more towards American frontier.

 

“Their valley was surrounded by mountains on every side” The setting was absolutely believable until you wrote this. I was raised and grew up in a valley surrounded on all sides by mountains (we were at about 6500 ft above sea level). Those areas are not rich farmlands, they are deserts. We got snow only occasionally, and it was never more than an inch or two even after the worst storm. We didn’t have forests on the inside of the mountain ranges. Where I grew up, it basically looked like the old west. We had dirt, sagebrush, Joshua trees, and tumbleweeds and if we spent a lot of money on water, some yards had grass. We could wear shorts in December and we had droughts in summer, but all our food came from the other side of the mountains. If you want to keep your setting, I suggest opening up the valley and taking part of the mountains away. This will let the rains and snow come, which will help develop farmland. May want to do some research to find out which direction the weather would come from so you know which mountains to deal with. All that said, I wish my mountain valley had been rich farmland and trees, maybe I wouldn’t have hated it so much

 

“When she was younger, they had had a horse, too” It would make more sense if they’d had a second ox, as oxen are generally bought, trained, and used in pairs and are much more valuable on a farm for tilling and such than a horse would be. But, this is very minor and just my opinion. I do like that they had to trade it off for medicine though. Seems very era-specific and is a good detail.

 

“Jenni knew him.” This sentence is unnecessary here, as she immediately uses his name in the next sentence.

 

Chilblains… Nowhere near as severe as frostbite and in the weather they’re having, frostbite seems more likely. That said, it’s an interesting twist on the normal “oh it’s freezing, give them frostbite” cliché. That said chilblains usually occurs in non-freezing weather. Also, butter? Is this a country remedy popular in your world (and if so, please tell us this). As generally, you want to keep affected skin dry, avoid rapid changes in temperature and, in the pioneering type time era we seem to be in, iodine would be a more common treatment. If the use of butter is only to make the small amount of goat milk gathered up seem even smaller… it’s a bit of a stretch. It will take hours to make butter and by then, his skin will be warmed, dried and on its way to feeling better. It takes 1 to 2 weeks to be completely over chilblains but keeping the skin dry, moderately warm and away from temperature changes will pretty much do it fine. If you want a food-using remedy, there’s one from the medieval time period using eggs, fennel root and wine.

 

“Jenni lifted the churn from its corner” Uhm, no. This girl is a half-starved 10 year old. She’s not lifting a churn that’s large enough to set in the corner of a room on the floor. Unless she has some magical power or strength or something, but we’ve had no indication that magic exists in this world.

 

“The skin of his nose and cheeks shone bright yellowish-red” Chilblains actually leaves the skin a darker red to blue color.

 

The “no one believes the drunk guy” cliché… This would have more impact if we had a better reason why Will doesn’t trust Jon.

 

​----

 

All that having been said… The Snatcher idea is interesting, and obviously is affecting Jenni and I’m curious how that plays out. I have a good feel of the time era, with the few inconsistencies I mentioned above.

 

The descriptions are adequate. The chapters are short, and if you decided to add to them, I’d suggest adding a few more details of the world in general to give us a better feel of the rugged lifestyle, the fashion, or even general appearances of the characters. Hair color? Skin tone? Clothing style? It will help sell the characters, mood and setting even further.

I could really enjoy this book. The story is good so far, but the world needs work to make it believable.

 

For the specific questions in your mail:

• Does the foreshadowing in chapter one work for you? I didn’t catch on to any :/
• Does the perspective change work for you from C1 to C2? (We don't see that character again for multiple chapters, but he does come back--it's not a one time thing--there are two protagonists, not one) As an avid reader of fantasy I am used to different chapters in different PoVs. This isn’t an issue.
• How does the pacing feel? The pacing is good. There is a constant movement forward with the action and plot.
• Did the chapter breaks feel well-spaced to you? The chapters are short, which is fine if you intend to keep that up throughout the book.
• Would you put the book down or keep going? I’m interested enough in the Snatcher to read a little more and see what the payoff is for that plotline.
• Does anything feel illogical to you? (see above notes)
• Does the language sufficiently convey the time period I'm trying to suggest? (Tell me what era you think it's imitating?) (again, answered above)

 

Thank you for your submission and for trusting us with it. I look forward to reading more!

 

 

So, I totally wrote a lot of replies, then my oh-so-loving nineteen year old cat wanting snuggles and warm place to sit, oh-so-lovingly nudges my hand causing an accidental back-button push, and here we are typing this again. J

 

Shadowfax

 

Thank you for so many very specific comments. I got some perspectives from you that pushed me out of my normal lens of seeing things, which is super useful.

 

Firstly, I had tried to change Jenni’s name to Jennie some time ago, but my beta readers didn’t want me to. They were accustomed to Jenni without the ‘e’, and I didn’t fight them on it. I wanted to change it because I was afraid of the very reaction you described. I do have a reason why she spells it without an ‘e’ but it’s not worth the narrative time to describe. Rdpulfer also mentions the modern names jumped at him, but I hope to assure you both that Jennie with an –e really was a popular in the 1880’s according to US censuses. Jon used to be Jonathan, and I just have the characters always calling him by nickname. These things make sense to me, but considering they’re the first things a reader sees, then I don’t necessarily want to make that distraction. Luckily, that’s as easy a control-replace button.

 

As far as naming conventions go in general, however, I’m afraid I can’t change all their names to some fantasy language. It’s a nontraditional fantasy background, and the overarching themes of the series and beliefs of the characters are American. It isn’t America, but I want it to feel American in spirit. If I have the characters doing something as American as hitching up their wagon and setting out across a prairie, I think it’s makes less sense to have [insert Fantasy Name] do so. It would make the names look out of place. Inventing names and languages has its place in high fantasy and sci-fi, but it’s not going to work for what I’m doing in long scheme here. There are other characters of other races, but I color their names with other real languages.

 

Thank you also for the nature feedback. I live in a coastal forest, not the mountains, and there are no mountains nearby, nor do I have mountain friends to consult. Googling information and books do not fill in that kind of personal insight.

 

I’ll try to put some more specific clothing mentions back into the narrative carefully, and I think that’ll help a little bit with the level of tech. I’m not trying to get too specific with the decade of the era because it’s not historical fiction at all. It’s just fantasy with a nontraditional setting.

 

Thank you again for so many thoughts. I know that much thought took time to pick through and write up!

[krystalynn03]

Initial impressions as I read:

- science aside: many people consider cedar smells to be very irritating (with good reason, the aromatic extractives are hella toxic). 'Cheery' would not be a word I would go to for cedar.

 

- on page five, mention of the baby still screaming and screaming. How long have they been having low food? Most infants will cease crying out of hunger if the period has gone long enough. Just something to think about. It could be more devastating for the reader to read about a quiet baby staring blankly at nothing than a screaming one.

 

- The passive voice and extended sentences keep pushing me out of the narrative. Many of your descriptive sentences have a few too many clauses to make them easy reads.

 

 

To answer your questions:

Does the foreshadowing in chapter one work: To an extent. I find it unmemorable and had to go back and reread it to answer the question. It gives some context to chapter two, but takes away from the tension chapter two should cause, since we already have empathy for the whatever. That makes the mystery and terror we should feel when we empathize with the girl less.

 

Does the perspective change work: Yes. I had no trouble with it.

 

Pacing: Works right now.

 

Chapter break spacing: Seems logical.

 

Put book down or keep going: The sister interaction is the part that has my interest. I'd be more interested if chapter one hadn't given me empathy for the scary thing. Because of chapter one, I feel like I already know where the story is going. I might give it another chapter to see if the relationships between the protag and her sister evolves, or if another secondary character comes in the engage me. It wouldn't be enough for me to buy it from a bookstore.

 

Illogical: Sentence structure. It was hard to stay in the narrative

 

Language: It sounds like uneducated farm people, but I don't get a decent sense of time. Moreso I get a sense of economic status and rural living.

 

 

Kaisa

 

I will fix the cedar thing. Thanks!

 

The quiet baby Dan is an interesting thought, a spooky one. I’m not sure if it would work though. Readers are really glomming onto the family’s food problem, which is good, but I don’t want to push it too hard, because it’s not the main plot. It’s an ignition for Jenni’s actions. So, I’ll definitely think about it some more, but I’m not sure if I would be misleading the reader to make them even more afraid for the family if I do that.

 

I wondered about the C1. I’ve never had that in there before, and I put it in as an experiment. I wondered if it would have the effect you described or if would driver readers to read because of dramatic irony. You seem to feel pretty strongly about it, and fixing it as easy as hitting a delete button for me, no tears shed. Thank you. This is exactly what I needed to know.

 

As far as Jenni’s sister, this is probably the most surprising comment out of all. I’ve never considered May as important or thought that a reader would connect quite like that to her so quickly with so little dialogue or plot. If spending time with May the rest of the book is the factor for you here, then the book’s going back on the shelf because May isn’t a major player.

 

Thank you so much for your specific commentary and useful insights. Sorry it might not be the kind of book you like, though--still gives me plenty of food for thought.

[krystalynn03]

 

Welcome to Reading Excuses!  Glad to have you on board.

On posting, usually if the spaces aren't full there's no problem.  Silk tends to be in and out, depending on her schedule, so as long as the critiquers agree, we don't have any problems with posting before confirmation.

 

 

Looks like Shadowfax and kaisa have most things tied up.  I didn't notice nearly as many logical issues (And Shadowfax--I need to get your take on names in the next thing I submit!)

 

 

On to your questions:

 

Does the foreshadowing in chapter one work for you?

--If you mean warnings about the weather not being right and the Snatcher being not as mean as reputed, then yes.

 

Does the perspective change work for you from C1 to C2? (We don't see that character again for multiple chapters, but he does come back--it's not a one time thing--there are two protagonists, not one)

--Didn't bother me so far.  The first chapter felt sort of like a prologue, but I was aware the character would most likely pop up again soon.

 

How does the pacing feel? 

--Didn't bother me.  There's rising tension through all three chapters, and I assume it will release when Jenni meets him.

 

Did the chapter breaks feel well-spaced to you? 

--Didn't have a problem with them.

 

Would you put the book down or keep going?

--Definitely keep going at this point.  You've got a good hook with the first chapter, and Jenni, though not a striking character, is relateable.  

 

Does anything feel illogical to you?

--Not yet.  Didn't see any plot holes.  As kaisa said, some of the sentence structure was a little awkward, especially near the beginning (I also noticed the fireflies and multiple "clear"s that Shadowfax did).

 

Does the language sufficiently convey the time period I'm trying to suggest? (Tell me what era you think it's imitating?)

--The dialect is sort of "little house on the prairie" and makes me definitely put this in a YA category.  it also frustrates me a little to read it, what with all the slang and "mountainfolk" terminology.  Seems kind of cliched, though it works by itself.  Sounds like late 1800s/early 1900s.

 

Anything else?

pg 4: trees shaking wrongly - the phrasing here sounds like Jenni is shaking wrongly, not the trees.

 

 

 

Mandamon

 

Thank you for reading and commenting! I appreciate you mentioning that you agree with previous comments because that helps me see what really jumped out as problems in the narrative and voice.

 

If you don’t mind me bothering you with one more question, I’d like to probe one of your comments a little bit. You seemed okay with the C1, more than some other feedback I got. Did you feel like the C1 interrupted the tension or your ability to connect with the characters in a negative way?

 

As far as foreshadowing goes—nobody has mentioned what I'm referring (the Snatcher isn't the foreshadowing), which is good, because it’s meant to be a throwaway which is only obvious at the end the of the book, so thank you for looking anyway. I know that question asks the reader to go back and potentially reread to answer.

 

I would definitely appreciate a ‘heads-up’ on dialogue if it presses any of your buttons too hard. I know language can be good or bad depending on the regional context. I come from a rural southern background, so even though this isn’t quite the slang we use or my grandparents used, it’s not too far from it, either. I expect people who grew around other dialects might hear the characters’ accents harder. I want to be sensitive that, and not push it too far. Thank you for mentioning it. I have worried over it.

 

Thanks for the edit notes too!

[krystalynn03]

Welcome to the group!

 

- I liked that you indirectly describe the character in the first chapter. He's not human. He leaves deep tracks in the snow, so he's probably something big. 

 

- Setting kinda confuses me. I'm guessing this is semi-traditional, rural fantasy, but a name like Jenni Fullers sounds surprisingly modern. A farmhouse works okay in both settings.

 

- The setting is better explained in the second chapter, but I'd like to get a sense of the general setting in the first one.

 

- I like Jenni's "conversation" with the cows.

 

- I really like the pacing, as we go from getting the milk straight into Uncle Jon's story. 

 

- I'm really curious what a Snatcher is. I'd definitely like to read more. 

 

 

Rdpulfer

 

Hi there! Thanks for reading and commenting. Getting so many different perspectives and really good crit is helping me get my mind to see old material in a new way.

 

I asked Mandamon, too, but for some people the C1 perspective worked and for others it didn’t. For the people that it bothered, they explained that it messed up the tension for them in following chapters. If you have time, can you tell me why it worked for you? I don’t have to decide anytime soon whether to drop it (easy as hitting delete), but I’m trying to weigh out the effect it has on the narrative.

 

Would you feel alright with Jennie with the –e back? Would you recognize that as an 1800’s name?

 

Thank you so much for reading and giving me thoughts on what to improve!

[krystalynn03]

Welcome to Reading Excuses, as Douglas Addams would say, we are mostly harmless...

 

I'm enjoying your story. I like the simplicity of the setting so far. You convey the harsh conditions of life well, and the characters are sketched out quickly and well, so we have enough detail to place them and have some feeling for them from the start. Jenni’s form of speech works well for me, not overdone, I think, but strengthening my immersion in the setting.

 

The pace is good, things are happening, reactions feel right.  The watching presence is intriguing and I want to learn what’s going on. I find myself reading through very easily, good strong prose, direct, not laden with description, but I think that’s fine, because I have a good image of a cabin and I can work with that.

 

Looking forward to another submission next week. I'm interested to know if you’ve finished this project, or how much you have to submit. I would very much like to read deeper into the story.

 

The snatcher is not define of course. The name is suitably scary, and yet it was the one note in Chapter 3 that made me stop. I think I put it with child-snatcher and an image of a bad person, but not a large monster. I think snatcher sounds smaller, less dramatic somehow than a huge beast that rips up trees.

 

Good job!

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Chapter 1

 

“The closest he could come to the town itself without being seen was not very close.” – Awkward wording.

 

I like the description, you paint a good picture and I can visualise the setting, but I would have liked to know the world was white with snow much earlier on, as it’s a major factor in perceiving the setting, and I had to change my perception (of a spring-like setting) halfway down the page.

 

And now I learn that there is a storm, which changes my perception again. I think these things would be better up front to establish straight away that there’s a winter storm going on.

 

Chapter 2

 

I like the swarm of cats, but you differentiate them from her friends, the animals. Cats are animals too! And are they not her friends?

 

Wait, wait – the baby’s called Dan and the Ox is called Wells?! There must be a hen called Mary and a bull called Howard around here somewhere

 

Chapter 3

 

I don’t know if I was caught up in reading, or if there was nothing to comment on, or both! There was a nice tension through this chapter. The short format works really well to propel the story forward and because of the child’s viewpoint there’s not need to detailed analysis and pondering. Very well done.

 

 

Robinski

 

It’s nice to meet everyone, too!

 

Thank you for the balance of commentary on pros and cons of the narrative so far. I’m glad to know what did work for you as well as what didn’t.

 

Thanks for explaining why C1 worked for you. It had the intended effect for you (making you want to know that character more), though that didn’t work for everyone else. I’m going to have think really hard at end of all this as to whether it helps or hurts the story, because I’m seeing it going both ways for a lot of folks.

 

In previous drafts the opening chapters had a lot more description to push the setting. The characters’ clothes were more specific and their home was better described, but in this version I tried to push the narrative along as quickly as I could. I think if I put in a few phrases here or there, then it’ll hopefully convey a little more imagery without slowing down too much.

 

As far as to how ‘done’ this is, I’d say the first draft is 90% done. There’s one chapter I skipped writing, because I just didn’t want to write it, because I feel like it draws the tension down and slows the plot toward the end of the book, but I haven’t figured out a way to just get rid of it completely, and then I haven’t written the very last chapter. I’ve written the resolution, yes, but the narrative calls for a bit of denouement, I hate writing the 'happy bits' in stories...

 

Your comment on the cats made me smile. Barn cats can be pretty feral if you don’t purposefully catch and handle them. I’ll check in with my buddy who grew up on a dairy farm and see about that. I’ve never thought about Jenni cuddling the baby kittens into friendliness, but she certainly could. Seems my friend mentioned that being friends with barn cats could be kind of traumatic because they disappear so often—eaten by wild things and the like.

 

Your comment on Howard and Mary gave me a grin. I really didn’t name the animals that on purpose. I just wanted a short name for Dan, and for Wells—he’s Wells for H.G. Wells because I’m still mad at him for what he did to Caddles.

 

Thanks again so much for all the suggested fixes and areas for improvement!

[krystalynn03]

The other commenters pretty much have it covered, but I'd like to just agree with Kaisa that the Chapter 1 (which actually feels more like a prologue than a first chapter) actually takes away from the impact of the Snatcher being introduced. The conversation that Jenni overhears about the Snatcher is very well done and builds nicely to the last line of the chapter, but the tension is undercut by the fact that we already have a picture of the Snatcher as a sympathetic character. Maybe in the grand scheme of things it'll work for your story to sacrifice tension for the sake of introducing him in the prologue, but after the first reading I have to say that in my opinion it would be much more effective if you switched to the Snatcher's POV in the woods after the scene with uncle Jon. In that case we would have an idea of who he is, so it would be less disorienting, and he would be far more compelling because we already know that he is feared and (presumably) misunderstood. 

 

 

That is a really interesting idea that I hadn't considered at all! Thanks for thinking up a potential win-win.

[Robinski]

As far as to how ‘done’ this is, I’d say the first draft is 90% done. There’s one chapter I skipped writing, because I just didn’t want to write it, because I feel like it draws the tension down and slows the plot toward the end of the book, but I haven’t figured out a way to just get rid of it completely, and then I haven’t written the very last chapter. I’ve written the resolution, yes, but the narrative calls for a bit of denouement, I hate writing the 'happy bits' in stories...

 

I know - what's that about. I find it hard too. Even when everything's cushtie, I want to introduce some note of tension.

 

I'm glad you have an complete and hope to get the chance to read it right through. We rarely get complete works on here due to the 5K format, but there is an Alpha Readers thread, if you search for it, where you can shout out for peeps to read the full bhuna.

[krystalynn03]

 

I know - what's that about. I find it hard too. Even when everything's cushtie, I want to introduce some note of tension.

 

I'm glad you have an complete and hope to get the chance to read it right through. We rarely get complete works on here due to the 5K format, but there is an Alpha Readers thread, if you search for it, where you can shout out for peeps to read the full bhuna.

 

 

Do you think the alpha reader thread is where I should be? Does this particular group here lend itself better toward unfinished works? I don't know how I feel about handing someone a complete manuscript to look at. That seems like an awful lot of time investment to ask of people I don't know. I mean, I know people read for fun, so given general feedback of 'I didn't like this section here' or 'the ending bothered me' might not be 'work' per se for some people, but it still seems pretty big to me.

[Robinski]

That's fair enough. You're right, it's early days, but I thought it was worth flagging up to anyone who is new round here.

 

And it's your call of course, I just like to know if there's a fair chance of getting to read further into a story, rather than the first handful of chapters then there's no more - which happens more often than not.

[krystalynn03]

I get what you mean. I haven't experienced that frustration via critique group, but reading fiction in different places around the internet, I know what you mean. You get a little invested...and then left hanging. I've had that happen with online comics, too, where the creators dropped doing a really good thing and I never got the satisfaction of an ending.

 

I have an entire manuscript's worth of story to submit, preferably in small chunks, so I can see a play by play of what's working and what's breaking down. For me, sharing out the work isn't as much about petering out on energy or dedication to this particular project. It's more about wavering ability to trust others to accept an odd juxtaposition.

 

I was part of a real life writer's group in my city, but I never submitted because I always felt what I wrote was too odd to share. (They were all romance/mystery writers--no fantasy writers in the group.) I know this is a fantasy group, and I'm trying to convince myself to share here, but I still think what I've done is a little bit of the odd man out. Roamwald is not high fantasy, or urban fantasy, or Sci-Fi, so I'm afraid that my 1800's fantasy is going to be hard for people to buy into since I'm not playing 100% by historical fiction rules or 100% by fantasy rules.

[Mandamon]

Mandamon

 

If you don’t mind me bothering you with one more question, I’d like to probe one of your comments a little bit. You seemed okay with the C1, more than some other feedback I got. Did you feel like the C1 interrupted the tension or your ability to connect with the characters in a negative way?

 

As far as foreshadowing goes—nobody has mentioned what I'm referring (the Snatcher isn't the foreshadowing), which is good, because it’s meant to be a throwaway which is only obvious at the end the of the book, so thank you for looking anyway. I know that question asks the reader to go back and potentially reread to answer.

 

I would definitely appreciate a ‘heads-up’ on dialogue if it presses any of your buttons too hard. I know language can be good or bad depending on the regional context. I come from a rural southern background, so even though this isn’t quite the slang we use or my grandparents used, it’s not too far from it, either. I expect people who grew around other dialects might hear the characters’ accents harder. I want to be sensitive that, and not push it too far. Thank you for mentioning it. I have worried over it.

I still don't have a problem with C1.  I think Mr. Wednesday's suggestions of going to the scene after meeting Uncle Jon in the barn is good, but when I first read it I sort of treated it as the "Ice monster prologue," as in Game of Thrones, where we see a little bit of the fantasy, and then drop into non-magic fantasy for a while.  It piqued my interest because you immediately make the monster sympathetic, then drop back into the standard "monsters all around" sort of story.  The contradiction made me want to keep reading and find out what the truth is.

 

I know what you mean on accents!  I'm from the south myself, and there's some accents around here I can barely understand.  I've had people ask me how I don't have a similar accent, mainly because I try to keep my speech clean.  I think what you did was accurate, but probably could be toned down a little and still get the same point across and not lose any of the setting.  Up to you, of course.  Would be good to see if anyone else has issues of if it's just me.

 

I was part of a real life writer's group in my city, but I never submitted because I always felt what I wrote was too odd to share. (They were all romance/mystery writers--no fantasy writers in the group.) I know this is a fantasy group, and I'm trying to convince myself to share here, but I still think what I've done is a little bit of the odd man out. Roamwald is not high fantasy, or urban fantasy, or Sci-Fi, so I'm afraid that my 1800's fantasy is going to be hard for people to buy into since I'm not playing 100% by historical fiction rules or 100% by fantasy rules.

You're certainly not the odd one out!  I've seen plenty of cool settings like this around here.  Some of Robinski's stuff is actually similar, but with a British setting.  And I like to write science fantasy space opera, so keep sharing!  I want to read more.

[Robinski]

Robinski's first law of (almost) everything - there are no rules. We had a guy from Israel on here for a few weeks who submitted poetry and a travelogue, so you're well inside that particular fringe.

Quality of the writing is my first and foremost consideration, and I think your writing is very engaging, and I hope to read more of it. Secondly, for me, is characterisation, and you have that down very nicely, I think. It's refershing to read a piece that is not about wizards fighting over the end of reality.

So many authors forget that people experience life one room at a time, not standing on a battlefield or weilding the forces of nature. No doubt many people read SFF because it takes them out of that, but the human scale of your story make it very relatable - and enjoyable.

[krystalynn03]

I still don't have a problem with C1.  I think Mr. Wednesday's suggestions of going to the scene after meeting Uncle Jon in the barn is good, but when I first read it I sort of treated it as the "Ice monster prologue," as in Game of Thrones, where we see a little bit of the fantasy, and then drop into non-magic fantasy for a while.  It piqued my interest because you immediately make the monster sympathetic, then drop back into the standard "monsters all around" sort of story.  The contradiction made me want to keep reading and find out what the truth is.

 

I know what you mean on accents!  I'm from the south myself, and there's some accents around here I can barely understand.  I've had people ask me how I don't have a similar accent, mainly because I try to keep my speech clean.  I think what you did was accurate, but probably could be toned down a little and still get the same point across and not lose any of the setting.  Up to you, of course.  Would be good to see if anyone else has issues of if it's just me.

 

You're certainly not the odd one out!  I've seen plenty of cool settings like this around here.  Some of Robinski's stuff is actually similar, but with a British setting.  And I like to write science fantasy space opera, so keep sharing!  I want to read more.

 

Thank you again for excellent feedback, Mandamon. That's exactly the effect I was shooting for when I thought to slide C1 into the narrative. There are a lot of things about the story that I want to feel really familiar, even predictable, but then there are some ways I want to twist tropes just a little to make things not quite the reader expected. I was hoping for a lot of metacognition out of advanced readers (Ah, so this is the Snatcher, and oh, isn't it ironic that the people all think he's a bad guy. New reason for reading: find out how that strange relationship is going to resolve, rather than be surprised by something that's not really a surprise anyway.) And I hope the effect on younger readers (like actual children) is that they might not make the connection at all until later in the book. Believe me, I teach mostly struggling readers and some advanced readers, and there's a very wide spectrum of what comprehension looks like.

 

Thanks also for the encouragment. I will try to be brave as far as sharing goes. I could just say what the only element of fantasy is, but I want to wait and see what effect the cannon descriptions and plot convey and how that goes over on raw readings of it with little no no pre-loading. I mean, if this book had a cover and a jacket already, you'd probably know what Roamwald is already. (Another reason I don't think C1 should be a huge problem in theory--a book cover and a jacket would spoil the tension anyway in its effort to reach the target audience)

 

I hope Robinski gets a sub in soon. I look forward to his material. Space stories are hardest for me to connect to, but if you write interesting characters I'll read your book or anyone's book, regardless of the setting. Do you plan to sub soon?

[krystalynn03]

Robinski's first law of (almost) everything - there are no rules. We had a guy from Israel on here for a few weeks who submitted poetry and a travelogue, so you're well inside that particular fringe.

Quality of the writing is my first and foremost consideration, and I think your writing is very engaging, and I hope to read more of it. Secondly, for me, is characterisation, and you have that down very nicely, I think. It's refershing to read a piece that is not about wizards fighting over the end of reality.

So many authors forget that people experience life one room at a time, not standing on a battlefield or weilding the forces of nature. No doubt many people read SFF because it takes them out of that, but the human scale of your story make it very relatable - and enjoyable.

 

Thank you again for the positive words. For me characterization is the most important, when reading or writing. I want to read about interesting people and invent them, too. Super powers or amazing skills doesn't always make a person interesting. This book has the fewest 'interesting people' because it's so contained, but the rest of the books in the series (written books, not just ideas in my head) take the characters out of this valley and into the wide world where we see many people of different races (there are two) and different classes (many) and different livelihoods (urban, rural) and even cultural shifts because of geography (north vs south).  The way real people adapt to real life circumstances and problems is what makes them interesting, I think, and so I push in a single fantasy element and then answer the question of how people would adapt and react around that, and explore the many variations thereon. I also see family as a repeating theme for me. What makes a family? How do families influence the way people act and react and who they become? What do people really need to be happy? Who gets the power and why? What do you do if you don't have a family anymore? Those are really big ideas that just influence the themes of the books, not on purpose but because they're questions I can't get away from myself. (All starting really small and simple here in Haventon...)

 

Oof, sorry. I'll stop that going on now. I need to go back to shoring up C4-5 for next week. I mean to submit, just because I want to keep the reactions fresh chapter to chapter and not asking readers to have to remember two weeks in advance, but honestly, I could spend a whole week digesting and tweaking based on the crit I've already got and then another week polishing up other stuff. I don't think that's fair to string it out too much. I think I'll get more useful feedback if I submit consistently rather than ask people to remember what I did three weeks or a month ago.

 

Thanks again!

[Mandamon]

I hope Robinski gets a sub in soon. I look forward to his material. Space stories are hardest for me to connect to, but if you write interesting characters I'll read your book or anyone's book, regardless of the setting. Do you plan to sub soon?

 

I'll have something in a while to submit, but it might be May at this point.  I've got a novel I'm editing currently, but then I'm going back to a novelette I plan on self-publishing later this year, and I'll need some feedback on that one!