Question about Allomantic Steel (see picture)

[Bryce Carmony]

[Voidus]

Not sure what the question is?

[natc]

He posted it in the cosmere theories section too with an actual question.

Basically he's asking where the line would go on a metallic ring, since the center of mass is just empty space.

[Voidus]

Ah, in that case I don't think we actually know where steellines point. Could be the center of mass, could be the part of the surface which is closest to you. Given that the surface deforms when pushed on I'm inclined to say it has more to do with surface than it does mass.

[Bryce Carmony]

Ah, in that case I don't think we actually know where steellines point. Could be the center of mass, could be the part of the surface which is closest to you. Given that the surface deforms when pushed on I'm inclined to say it has more to do with surface than it does mass.

Ergo the question

[hoidhunter]

This is similar to something that I have often wondered...

 

Like, if someone is wearing chain mail...do you see thousands of tiny lines pointed to each link?

 

If you are standing near a giant fused piece of metal...like a vault door...what does the line look like?

[Oversleep]

I wonder how Steel Inquisitors can see anything. IIRC they can see lines pointing to normally unobservable metals, that's how they can see living beings for example. But that means that they basically see an ocean of blue lines pointing everywhere, how can they see anything?
Another question, since they see metal lines pointing to trace metals in living beings, this should mean they can Push and Pull on metals inside the body. But we never see them do it...

[Khyrindor]

I think it would depend on where you thought the line should go, and on how you viewed the object, and on how the object viewed itself.

 

Very minor BoM spoiler:

 

 

When Wax and Forch were both pushing on the bullet in the prologue, Wax thought about the bullet as three parts rather than one whole, and the line split into three, and so he fired the tip of the bullet out of its casing at Forch.

 

 

This shows that it depends on how you are thinking about an object. Now, I know that doesn't answer the question about the centre of mass and the ring, but consider the Cognitive Realm, and how objects appear there.

 

Extremely minor SH spoiler:

 

 

On Scadrial, a metal ring would appear as brightly glowing.

 

 

When you Push or Pull, you're connecting with the object's soul somehow, and you're likely just Pulling the entire object at once from one point. I think that it would stay oriented the same way unless something got in the way, or if you thought of a specific point and pushed there. 

 

On the chain mail question. You would be able to Push on each ring if you wanted to. Otherwise, the chain mail would view itself as a whole, and since you're not trying to change that, you'd Push on the whole thing.

[natc]

I wonder how Steel Inquisitors can see anything. IIRC they can see lines pointing to normally unobservable metals, that's how they can see living beings for example. But that means that they basically see an ocean of blue lines pointing everywhere, how can they see anything?

Another question, since they see metal lines pointing to trace metals in living beings, this should mean they can Push and Pull on metals inside the body. But we never see them do it...

Use thickness and length to outline everything.

I don't see how seeing would be a problem.

As far as SoS goes you can faintly detect chunks of metal in people and still be unable to push on them.

[Voidus]

I wonder how Steel Inquisitors can see anything. IIRC they can see lines pointing to normally unobservable metals, that's how they can see living beings for example. But that means that they basically see an ocean of blue lines pointing everywhere, how can they see anything?

Another question, since they see metal lines pointing to trace metals in living beings, this should mean they can Push and Pull on metals inside the body. But we never see them do it...

I imagine some of this also has to do with Hemalurgy, the spikes position warps their souls beyond just granting them iron and steel.

[xxcyv]

Thats funny, just a few hours ago I thougt about a very similar problem and now you are asking the question here ^^

 

Could be the center of mass, could be the part of the surface which is closest to you. 

 

I think both possibilities are wrong. In AoL Wax pushes against railroad tracks to travel very fast. If you only could push against the surface which is closest to you, he would have shot himself directly upwards, but he hadn't be able to move forward. Same with the center of mass. The center of a milelong metal rod would be too small for Wax to use it to travel a longer distance. Even if we assume that the center of mass of the tracks is like a straight line going through the full length of the track, how does he push against it?

 

I once came up with the idea that the lines could point at every accessable metal near you, but with infinitesimal gaps between them, so there is an almost infinitely number of lines pointing at the same piece of metal, but each one at a slightly different spot. With that you could pick a line which points at the best position and push. 

 

 

This whole "Where do the blue lines point at"-thing bothers me quite some time now ^^

[Pathfinder]

 

Thats funny, just a few hours ago I thougt about a very similar problem and now you are asking the question here ^^

 

 

I think both possibilities are wrong. In AoL Wax pushes against railroad tracks to travel very fast. If you only could push against the surface which is closest to you, he would have shot himself directly upwards, but he hadn't be able to move forward. Same with the center of mass. The center of a milelong metal rod would be too small for Wax to use it to travel a longer distance. Even if we assume that the center of mass of the tracks is like a straight line going through the full length of the track, how does he push against it?

 

I once came up with the idea that the lines could point at every accessable metal near you, but with infinitesimal gaps between them, so there is an almost infinitely number of lines pointing at the same piece of metal, but each one at a slightly different spot. With that you could pick a line which points at the best position and push. 

 

 

This whole "Where do the blue lines point at"-thing bothers me quite some time now ^^

 

That could be partly because the only two people we have seen do such a trick (Kelsier with the bar, and Wax with well.... everything), are steel savants. 

[xxcyv]

That could be partly because the only two people we have seen do such a trick (Kelsier with the bar, and Wax with well.... everything), are steel savants.

Well, that's new to me ^^" But good to know

[Voidus]

 

Thats funny, just a few hours ago I thougt about a very similar problem and now you are asking the question here ^^

 

 

I think both possibilities are wrong. In AoL Wax pushes against railroad tracks to travel very fast. If you only could push against the surface which is closest to you, he would have shot himself directly upwards, but he hadn't be able to move forward. Same with the center of mass. The center of a milelong metal rod would be too small for Wax to use it to travel a longer distance. Even if we assume that the center of mass of the tracks is like a straight line going through the full length of the track, how does he push against it?

 

I once came up with the idea that the lines could point at every accessable metal near you, but with infinitesimal gaps between them, so there is an almost infinitely number of lines pointing at the same piece of metal, but each one at a slightly different spot. With that you could pick a line which points at the best position and push. 

 

 

This whole "Where do the blue lines point at"-thing bothers me quite some time now ^^

 

Railroad tracks are segmented I believe so it would still work, and he'd still retain any other forward momentum he had.

[Oversleep]

Railroad tracks are segmented I believe so it would still work, and he'd still retain any other forward momentum he had.

Okay, this may be true.

But what wiil happen once rails become longer than the Coinshot range? For example, 100 meters and more. If blue lines point to the center of the mass, then the center could be outside the Pushing range - it would render the metal unPushable, but I find it hard to believe.

[Voidus]

Okay, this may be true.

But what wiil happen once rails become longer than the Coinshot range? For example, 100 meters and more. If blue lines point to the center of the mass, then the center could be outside the Pushing range - it would render the metal unPushable, but I find it hard to believe.

One of many reasons I'm more inclined to think it has to do with surface than mass.

[Kingsdaughter613]

With regard to how Inquisitors see: "The other was all in blue, lines everywhere. The vision of a man spiked through the eye." The quote was from the end of BoM. From the wording it seems that everything looks blue, with glowing lines. At least that's my take.

Found another quote:"He saw her normally in one world, and outlined in blue in another."

Edited March 20, 2016 by Kingsdaughter613

[Pathfinder]

Well, that's new to me ^^" But good to know

no worries, it is mentioned in the annotations for Wax and I think WoB for Kelsier.