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Kaladin and What Sadeas Is Not


IntentAwesome

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This is Roshar.  Why would they have the Tech to nail down the time of death anyhow?  The best they can do is probably say how many days the body has been decaying.  If Adolin  really wants to not be found, he could just throw Sadeas' body off of Urithiru, and then everyone will just wonder 'What happened to Sadeas?'.

 

I think Adolin is likely to tell Dalinar what happened, or maybe Renarin, after he starts feeling guilty.  Or maybe he will just tell Dalinar anyway.  I do not think the whole thing will go much farther than that, unless Brandon decides to make Dalinar get all 'You murdered Sadeas.  You are not worthy to do (Insert random thing)/You are not a good son/You will be Banished.' and starts seperating himself from Adolin. That would seem out of character for Dalinar though.

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59 minutes ago, Magestar said:

This is Roshar.  Why would they have the Tech to nail down the time of death anyhow?  The best they can do is probably say how many days the body has been decaying.  If Adolin  really wants to not be found, he could just throw Sadeas' body off of Urithiru, and then everyone will just wonder 'What happened to Sadeas?'.

 

I think Adolin is likely to tell Dalinar what happened, or maybe Renarin, after he starts feeling guilty.  Or maybe he will just tell Dalinar anyway.  I do not think the whole thing will go much farther than that, unless Brandon decides to make Dalinar get all 'You murdered Sadeas.  You are not worthy to do (Insert random thing)/You are not a good son/You will be Banished.' and starts seperating himself from Adolin. That would seem out of character for Dalinar though.

Just had a thought - is there any possibility that Renarin would already know that Adolin had killed Sadeas due to his Truthwatcher abilities?  I still don't really understand his abilities... so this could be totally wrong...

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5 minutes ago, Tharatariel10 said:

Just had a thought - is there any possibility that Renarin would already know that Adolin had killed Sadeas due to his Truthwatcher abilities?  I still don't really understand his abilities... so this could be totally wrong...

Your guess is as good as mine... which would be: depends on how important for greater events this is. I think Renarin's visions are something like Taravangian did in his Diagram: extrapolating the future from the present. Only in Renarin's case, it would be enhanced by a unique knowledge of what is currently going on not only in the physical realm but in the cognitive and maybe spiritual realms as well, provided by his spren. He's is not always right, as his "We are all dead" at the oathgate proves. And I think the spren only shows him what he needs to know to help saving the world... anything more would be a complete overload.

So I doubt he'll know about Adolin and Sadeas, but it's not impossible.

1 hour ago, Magestar said:

[...]

I think Adolin is likely to tell Dalinar what happened, or maybe Renarin, after he starts feeling guilty.  Or maybe he will just tell Dalinar anyway.  I do not think the whole thing will go much farther than that, unless Brandon decides to make Dalinar get all 'You murdered Sadeas.  You are not worthy to do (Insert random thing)/You are not a good son/You will be Banished.' and starts seperating himself from Adolin. That would seem out of character for Dalinar though.

I agree (and hope) that Adolin will probably tell one of them. And I certainly don't see Dalinar pushing him away as a person. However, I'm afraid those who are worried about Dalinar getting into a quandary between his love for his son and his duty to Alethkar have a disturbingly good point, so I'm not so sure about it not going much farther.

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I think the surest way for problems to arise is for a new skybreaker radiant to show up just as Sadeas's murder is revealed. Dalinar is trying to re-found the knights radiant, so it would not do to get into conflict with a new order showing up, but at the same time if anyone could figure out it is Adolin who is guilty of murder, it would be a skybreaker, and it would be a skybreaker who would seek to carry out the sentence no matter what. So it would either mean potentially fracturing the already fragile re-unification of the radiants, or let his son be locked up/executed by the very knights he is trying to bring back. 

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Sorry to big the downer here b/c it would be a cool storyline.  however, it doesnt make sense. Kaladin wasnt even in the city when Sadeas got there. Remember it takes a weeks worth of travel time to get from the warcamps to the portal. That being said, Kaladin was already back in Alethkar when Sadeas first arrived. So it would seem Kaladin would be the least likely suspect.

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The timeline doesn't allow for Kaladin to have killed Sadeas. Sadeas was acquainted for minutes before his death as he had followers. Kaladin has not been alone the whole time. There is no way Sadeas will remain dead, not found, for hours: it is a matter of minutes before someone goes back for the Highprince wondering what is taking him so long.

6 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

I think the surest way for problems to arise is for a new skybreaker radiant to show up just as Sadeas's murder is revealed. Dalinar is trying to re-found the knights radiant, so it would not do to get into conflict with a new order showing up, but at the same time if anyone could figure out it is Adolin who is guilty of murder, it would be a skybreaker, and it would be a skybreaker who would seek to carry out the sentence no matter what. So it would either mean potentially fracturing the already fragile re-unification of the radiants, or let his son be locked up/executed by the very knights he is trying to bring back. 

Ouch Pathfinder... That's a good one, a very good one.

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16 hours ago, maxal said:

The timeline doesn't allow for Kaladin to have killed Sadeas. Sadeas was acquainted for minutes before his death as he had followers. Kaladin has not been alone the whole time. There is no way Sadeas will remain dead, not found, for hours: it is a matter of minutes before someone goes back for the Highprince wondering what is taking him so long.

Ouch Pathfinder... That's a good one, a very good one.

Lol thanks, though this one may hurt you even more. Possibly the reason (and I am just spit balling so there could be countless holes in this rationale) why Adolin isn't a more central character in the subsequent books (if I recall correctly from seeing your other posts) is that when confronted by the skybreaker, Dalinar locks him up, but arranges it so he can escape and Adolin is off screen on the run during books 3, 4 and 5. Then in the second half (6, 7, 8, 9, and 10) he shows up in all his edgedancer glory, with flash back chapters showing him on the run, learning more about himself, reviving his blade, and coming to terms with his actions through dialogue with his newly acquired spren. So although you wouldn't see him much at all in the first half, in the second half you would see him a lot more. Though I do not recall if Brandon presented the story structure for the second half, so that could all be like tears in the rain lol. 

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8 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Lol thanks, though this one may hurt you even more. Possibly the reason (and I am just spit balling so there could be countless holes in this rationale) why Adolin isn't a more central character in the subsequent books (if I recall correctly from seeing your other posts) is that when confronted by the skybreaker, Dalinar locks him up, but arranges it so he can escape and Adolin is off screen on the run during books 3, 4 and 5. Then in the second half (6, 7, 8, 9, and 10) he shows up in all his edgedancer glory, with flash back chapters showing him on the run, learning more about himself, reviving his blade, and coming to terms with his actions through dialogue with his newly acquired spren. So although you wouldn't see him much at all in the first half, in the second half you would see him a lot more. Though I do not recall if Brandon presented the story structure for the second half, so that could all be like tears in the rain lol. 

Well, I do know the reason Adolin isn't a more central character merely is because the author didn't plan him to be one. Brandon is an architect, as opposed to a gardener (such as Martin) which means he writes with a plan and this plan calls for certain key events to happen for the ending climax to exist. In order to bring those events, he needs a given set of characters to push them in the direction he wants them to go. Based on his choice, we can gather the Parshendi and Shinovar have a role to play within the ending climax as he saw fit to include characters offering those perspective. 

Most of my qualms come from the fact I essentially am a character reader who got engrossed in a world-building story. From a character reader's perspective, Adolin is one of the most interesting character, but from a builder's perspective he is pretty useless as he isn't in a position to influence events. He also doesn't fit within any of the traditional roles of fantasy.

The author simply does not need him to carry on his plotting... but he is there. I doubt he will send on a long bus ride to only come back in the second half: he'll be around and he'll have something which resemble an arc, but it probably will never feel as complete and as satisfying as Kaladin's. 

Adolin is the story of the normal guy who was happy with how things were and whom got stuck within the changes brought forward by the Hero. He is by who we could explore how these changes may be marvelous for the Radiants, but terrible for other people. He is the voice we never hear within fantasy stories.

Still the idea of a Skybreaker wanting to enforce the death sentence is pretty neat. There sure are plot lines to work on with using this idea. 

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A quick thought here about Adolin and Dalinar. In chapter 60 of The Way of Kings we read that Dalinar gave Adolin the right to depose him should he go too mentally unstable (before they "proved" the visions). Could Adolin make use of that somehow if he goes dark? That would be an unexpected twist.

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2 hours ago, Xaladin said:

A quick thought here about Adolin and Dalinar. In chapter 60 of The Way of Kings we read that Dalinar gave Adolin the right to depose him should he go too mentally unstable (before they "proved" the visions). Could Adolin make use of that somehow if he goes dark? That would be an unexpected twist.

I had thought of it... but I had thought Adolin would alienate himself from Dalinar up to a point where he'll be vulnerable enough to allow others to talk him into using his right to depose his father. I don't think he'd carried it through though... 

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I agree with Maxal. Even if Adolin became a villain for some reason I can't even imagine, he still wouldn't backstab his father like that. Adolin is a direct man who prefers direct means. Even thought in battle he can be cunning and opportunistic, we have never seen his capacity to transfer those skills to other contexts, much like his confidence and control only exist when it comes to hitting things with an oversized sword.

Not that it really matters, since Adolin worships his dad, and the only way I could see him actively going against him is if Dalinar became a extremistic tyrant and someone close to Adolin convinced him taking his father off the throne by (physical or political) force was the only choice.

And he still wouldn't think of his right to depose his father for insanity unless Renarin reminded him of it, because his first thought would be of direct opposition, be it with words or blades.

Edited by DreamEternal
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