Kaladin and What Sadeas Is Not

[maxal]

I thought it was Skybreaker that Adoline couldn't be a member of, and that Sanderson specifically said Dustbringers would still take him? Could someone check on that for me? I'm not really sure where to begin...

 

Also, I feel like the original question is based on flawed assumptions. The question you should be asking is: Given what the people have seen of Kal's abilities, and how little they know about his limitations, would any of them be brave or stupid enough to chalenge his honor? If he has the ability to walk into a back hall somewhere and murder someone - which is what they'd be claiming, wouldn't they want to be VERY careful about how they went about accusing him? Too, it seems like Alethi culture is largely Might Makes Right at this point. If you don't have the power to fight someone or assassinate them, you're not going to challenge them. Given Kal's healing abilities, it seems unlikely they'd try that approach either. If any of them have two brain cells to rub together at this point, they're not going to try and pin this on Kal.

 

... and I want this to be Adoline's and Dalinar's arc(but mostly Adoline).

 

We have to be careful at the Words of Brandon... The WoB you are referring too had someone asked Brandon is the Skybreakers would want Adolin despite him having murdered Sadeas. The answer was no because he broke the law. The person then added "and the Dustbringers" to which Brandon simply noted.

 

A lot of people have took it this WoB meant Adolin would join the order of the Dustbringers, but it isn't what the author was telling us. He was simply stating the fact he murdered Sadeas wouldn't matter to the Dustbringers, but it would to the Skybreakers. It nowhere states Adolin has the required characteristics of this order.

 

The WoB which I believe rules out Adolin for the Dustbringers is another one. In it, Brandon basically states we would have to wait for a proto-Dustbringer to become a main character before we find out more about them... Adolin isn't this character as he isn't a main character, not now nor never. The author also confirmed we have perhaps not have the POV of a future Dustbringer... Perhaps not does exclude Adolin, the primary tertiary character of the story, the number four when it comes to number of POV. 

 

It does rule Adolin out. He can't be the main character for any order as he isn't a main character nor will he ever be: Brandon confirmed this. He can't be the minor KR of the Dustbringer order because his story arc is happening right now and not in some distant future moreover we have definitely meet him which rules him out based on the perhaps not comment (the exact words were slightly different, but the meaning was the same).

 

Also, there is the sad fact that the Stormlight Archive wasn't built with Adolin being a character in it... He thus isn't going to fill in any spot we know may be available. Adolin doesn't have a spot nor a defined role other than foil in this story. And this is the sad truth which makes me fear reading book 3.

 

Everyone wants this to be Adolin's arc, but the author isn't going to turn Adolin into a main protagonist: Dalinar is his main protagonist going into book 3. As a result, we can expect this arc will mostly deal with the ordeal as seen from Dalinar's point of view. Adolin as to the most perhaps, if we are lucky, 10 POV chapters, 4 or 5 is we are unlucky. He can't possible truly expand as a character with this little: hence we can't hope for much. We can't hope for much more than a few scenes and a climax which will serve anyone else but him... 

 

This is what happens when you are just a tertiary character. 

 

 

The "shrugged" part was very much a mental shortcut of mine - I know very well he wouldn't be able to take this easily. I must admit, I personally hope that if Ialai tries to blackmail him with Sadeas' murder, he'll do the right thing (as far as there can be such thing as "the right thing" in this mess of a situation) and go to his father, but I fear - and agree with your analysis - that he'll hide this out of his fear of revealing to his father that he failed him.

 

Hmm, it would be interesting if Dalinar's flashbacks dealt not only with his time merrily unifying Alethkar under Gavilar's banner, but also his relationships with his kids. This could be as close to "Adolin book" as we're likely to get. 

 

My comment about the Truthwatcher referred to the fact that they're the only order beside Edgedancers who have the Progression to bring the Blade back to life. As I said, unlikely Adolin would end up joining them, especially given his Blade.

 

Adolin will never let anyone take the blame in his steed... He is too kind and compassionate. I do think he will talk to his father, eventually, but I do not think he will shove it away, claiming this is that and he was right... He broke his father's code, he failed to meet the expectations. This is the key: failure. For the first time in his life, Adolin has to deal with the one thing he fears the most: failing and more importantly falling his father.

 

A lot of Adolin's character is currently defined around fear... which is a nice touch considering he is a soldier able to bring it on on the battlefield. He isn't afraid to get hurt, but he is afraid to hurt, to fail, to disappoint.

 

Yeah... Maybe the flashbacks will show us glimpses of little Adolin, but I dare not hope... Dalinar's most defining past events are pertaining his brother and Navani: not his son. If tiny Adolin makes an appearance, then we can expect it will be short lived and superficial. I don't expect to see some father/son bonding through past eyes even though it would make a nice parallel to the present day event. I wonder at times if Brandon is aware of how many readers actually want to read more of Adolin....

 

We don't know if the Progression surger is required to revive a Blade, the process is rather unknown. This being said, it is safe to say that to revive an Edgedancer Blade, one would need to become a proto... Edgedancer.

 

 

I think it will be. Keep in mind that Kaladin ended the story flying off to Hearthstone. I suspect his arc in Oathbringer will be taking place largely in Desolation-torn (or is it?) Alethkar, while Urithiru business will fall to the Kholins.

 

Funnily enough, his absence may actually help fuel rumours that he's the one who murdered Sadeas - after all, an absent man can't defend himself, nor can he cut you down for accusing him. This could give Adolin some sort of "alibi" and cover, which he might be thankful for, even if he'll spend all of his waking hours and larger parts of his sleeping ones fearing the day someone discovers it wasn't Kaladin but him. What I'm getting at is that even seeing Kaladin getting accused, he might not come out and reveal the truth until Kal is about to be prosecuted for the crime he didn't commit.

 

Another question would be, of course, what Shallan will have to say. Adolin is extrovertic - she'll notice something's off about him. Here's hoping he won't drive her away with his behaviour, which, knowing his relationship history, might just happen.

 

 

Needless to say that if Brandon turns what should by all means be an Adolin arc into yet another Kaladin arc, I will trust my book onto the wall 

 

Adolin isn't very good at hiding his strong emotions, but he has kept most of is insecurities on the inside. He projects a outside persona, a front which isn't him but, unlike Kaladin or Shallan, his behavior isn't tied in to a desire to hide himself, it is rather unconscious. In other words, Adolin doesn't know who he is: all his life he strove to be exactly the man his father wanted him to be. He followed the guidelines his father left for him in a precise perfectionist manner, but he never asked himself what he truly wanted.

 

Adolin has no idea who he is which is why he isn't going to try to hide it, he is just going to try to maintain his facade because this is all he knows.

[Physicist of the Cosmere]

My main concern when I read that scene was how it would affect Adolin's relationships. At this point, it's very clear that the murder is not overwhelmingly Radiant-Approved. The fact that Adolin immediately tried to hide and cover up the murder is only going to make things worse. He could become estranged to the Radiants, which include his father, his only brother, the girl with whom he's had his first successful relationship with, and his loyal-guard-turned-sort-of-acquaintance who is also most likely to steal his girl. I'm not saying he's going to become all-out evil and turn against them (Or maybe I just don't want to consider that) but I'm worried that it will affect him in a very, very bad way. Sanderson wouldn't pull this kind of thing without it having at least considerable repercussions.

[The Ninja Yodeler]

damnation, never thought of it that way. I was only worried about him being seen as a deserter from the ragged uniform and a fortune in dune(dun? cant remember the propper terminology) spheres.Im sure Sadeas' wife will accuse him or Dalinar of the murder. Either way, its going to cause confusion and uncertainty with people throwing around rumors and deliberate misinformation. Either way, it will be a fun read. Hell, I wanted Sadeas dead for two very long books, and I was so pumped whe Adolin brained em.

[maxal]

My main concern when I read that scene was how it would affect Adolin's relationships. At this point, it's very clear that the murder is not overwhelmingly Radiant-Approved. The fact that Adolin immediately tried to hide and cover up the murder is only going to make things worse. He could become estranged to the Radiants, which include his father, his only brother, the girl with whom he's had his first successful relationship with, and his loyal-guard-turned-sort-of-acquaintance who is also most likely to steal his girl. I'm not saying he's going to become all-out evil and turn against them (Or maybe I just don't want to consider that) but I'm worried that it will affect him in a very, very bad way. Sanderson wouldn't pull this kind of thing without it having at least considerable repercussions.

 

It would advice caution when stating the murder was not Radiant-approved: there are orders who would not only approve, but applaud. We must also take care not to forget how Jasnah brutally murdered fleeing men just so she could teach a lesson: her deeds were far greater as she had the intend and neither did she come forth to disclose herself as the mysterious individual who left the bodies of several dead men behind.

 

Adolin hiding the clues is the normal reaction of someone experiencing shock: it is obvious when reading this scene he isn't in complete control of himself. He was and yet he wasn't: it was him, but at the same time, it was not truly him. I certainly think he experienced a mind snap, a moment of great confusion where the natural impulses quickly take over the brain activity such as in fight or flight situations. There is much to be said about those crazy circumstances which pushes, otherwise normal individuals, beyond their breaking point through fits of rage. It does happen and it is a well documented phenomenon. All in all, I certainly believe Adolin experienced such an event. We, the readers, do not often get the sense of how stressed out Adolin truly is and how much he fears threats may harm his father: those unchecked feelings accumulated into a mountain which toppled over him with the right push. Afterwards, once his mind snaps back into normal, he realizes what he has done and shock kicks in. Once faced with dramatic events, it often is the human's first impulse to deny such event has happened, hence Adolin is hiding the clues. He doesn't want to deal with his actions, he isn't ready, he can't cope, so he hides it, trying to make it disappear just as a child who hides the broken jar behind a cushion to avoid being grounded for it. 

 

This is exactly how I read Adolin's murder. For me, the important part was his lack of control combined to the fact his mind broke down in this one scene. All in all, the act itself cannot bar him from all orders as the controlled murder for dubious reasons not self-acclaimed by Jasnah certainly does not bar her. What may bar Adolin though is how he reacts to it.

 

What will he do now? That is the question, but we can be sure it won't be a walk in the park. Anything less would be a severe disappointment. It is how a colleague of mine suggested, today, how Ramsay Snow may be killed by a random arrow.... Anti-climatic to the best: the bastard deserves a worthy satisfying death.

 

 

damnation, never thought of it that way. I was only worried about him being seen as a deserter from the ragged uniform and a fortune in dune(dun? cant remember the propper terminology) spheres.Im sure Sadeas' wife will accuse him or Dalinar of the murder. Either way, its going to cause confusion and uncertainty with people throwing around rumors and deliberate misinformation. Either way, it will be a fun read. Hell, I wanted Sadeas dead for two very long books, and I was so pumped whe Adolin brained em.

 

Sincerely, I do think having anyone blame the murder on Kaladin would be bad plotting. It is obvious it isn't him and quite frankly I wouldn't mind if tragedy left Kaladin alone for a while. He has enough growth moments to be had with learning how to be a worthy leader: being frame for murder seems a poor story arc for him.

[Crystin Radiant]

I do see how Kaladin could be suspect... He has reasonable motive, obvious skill (he has killed other shardbearers, and faced many without shards), and I think that his sudden departure as suspicious... Whether or not they realize his innocence, I don't know, but the reason to suspect him is there. I do think that if Kaladin is blamed, however, it might force Adolin to confess to the murder. 

 

As for Adolin, and the Kholin family in general, I worry what will happen to them.

How Adolin reacted, I don't think that he will admit to murdering Sadeas, or he will take a while to admit to it. I think Adolin will not want to tell Dalinar, and then be torn because he should tell his father, but then there is the shame of failure...

However, not telling Dalinar will only make things worse when he finds out that it was Adolin. There will be outrage among the high princes, and Dalinar will be torn between his love for Adolin, and his own code of honor, which will force him to punish Adolin.

 

I don't think that we won't see Adolin get a character arc in the next book. Adolin is going to see some serious change in the next book. Killing Sadeas is undoubtably going to have serious effects on him and his relationship with others. Adolin's arc may not be the main one— we know Dalinar's arc is the main one— but it is going to change him in some profound ways, and I think it will affect Dalinars arc, also.

 

Ialai is going to be dangerous. She has (from what we've seen from Sadeas's perspective in WoR) the largest and most secret spy ring in the war camps. I find it very plausible that she will find out that Adolin killed her husband. When she does find out, she is going to use that information to do everything she can to tear the Kholin family to shreds.

 

 

So there are my thoughts on the matter... 

[The Ninja Yodeler]

It would advice caution when stating the murder was not Radiant-approved: there are orders who would not only approve, but applaud. We must also take care not to forget how Jasnah brutally murdered fleeing men just so she could teach a lesson: her deeds were far greater as she had the intend and neither did she come forth to disclose herself as the mysterious individual who left the bodies of several dead men behind.

Adolin hiding the clues is the normal reaction of someone experiencing shock: it is obvious when reading this scene he isn't in complete control of himself. He was and yet he wasn't: it was him, but at the same time, it was not truly him. I certainly think he experienced a mind snap, a moment of great confusion where the natural impulses quickly take over the brain activity such as in fight or flight situations. There is much to be said about those crazy circumstances which pushes, otherwise normal individuals, beyond their breaking point through fits of rage. It does happen and it is a well documented phenomenon. All in all, I certainly believe Adolin experienced such an event. We, the readers, do not often get the sense of how stressed out Adolin truly is and how much he fears threats may harm his father: those unchecked feelings accumulated into a mountain which toppled over him with the right push. Afterwards, once his mind snaps back into normal, he realizes what he has done and shock kicks in. Once faced with dramatic events, it often is the human's first impulse to deny such event has happened, hence Adolin is hiding the clues. He doesn't want to deal with his actions, he isn't ready, he can't cope, so he hides it, trying to make it disappear just as a child who hides the broken jar behind a cushion to avoid being grounded for it.

This is exactly how I read Adolin's murder. For me, the important part was his lack of control combined to the fact his mind broke down in this one scene. All in all, the act itself cannot bar him from all orders as the controlled murder for dubious reasons not self-acclaimed by Jasnah certainly does not bar her. What may bar Adolin though is how he reacts to it.

What will he do now? That is the question, but we can be sure it won't be a walk in the park. Anything less would be a severe disappointment. It is how a colleague of mine suggested, today, how Ramsay Snow may be killed by a random arrow.... Anti-climatic to the best: the bastard deserves a worthy satisfying death.

Sincerely, I do think having anyone blame the murder on Kaladin would be bad plotting. It is obvious it isn't him and quite frankly I wouldn't mind if tragedy left Kaladin alone for a while. He has enough growth moments to be had with learning how to be a worthy leader: being frame for murder seems a poor story arc for him.

Yeah, I dont think its very likely either. Probably the reason I didnt think of it lol. But Im sure he will be a suspect. Probably not for long because he has an alibi. I do wonder how Adolin will be caught, because unless one of Sadeas' servants saw that he was chit chattin with our boy Addy, I dont see Ialais spy network helping her here. He would actually have to confess, and I dont see that happening. I mean, there were a lot of people who wanted Sadeas dead. Well, maybe not "wanted him dead", but they certainly would celebrate it I believe. But Maxal, I consider you the ultimate Adolin info source lol, so I will leave the likelihood of whether he will confess or not up to you Edited June 10, 2016 by The Ninja Yodeler

[maxal]

I do see how Kaladin could be suspect... He has reasonable motive, obvious skill (he has killed other shardbearers, and faced many without shards), and I think that his sudden departure as suspicious... Whether or not they realize his innocence, I don't know, but the reason to suspect him is there. I do think that if Kaladin is blamed, however, it might force Adolin to confess to the murder. 

 

At the time of the murder, Kaladin was standing at the top of the Tower with Dalinar, Shallan and Renarin, all revealing into them being Radiants. He promptly announced his desire to return home in order to warn his family of the upcoming Everstorm. When he left them, he presumably went to prepare his bag, presumably at his quarter which are surrounded by bridgemen.

 

All in all, Kaladin simply was not available to be the murderer: he was acquainted for the whole time. There was no time for him to get back down from the tower, down into the tunnels and up to kill Sadeas not to mention nobody even knew he was there in the first place. He has an alibi. Providing anyone even wants to blame Kaladin, they are bound to be faced with the fact he simply was elsewhere at the time of death and thus not physically capable of having done it. Besides, I have a hard time thinking why anyone would even think of blaming Kaladin... Adolin is the one having uttered public threats towards Sadeas: chances are other people heard him. Besides, the death of a Highprince is a golden opportunity to try to undermine the Kholin: Kaladin is not a Kholin and being a Radiant, he is unattainable.

 

The way I see it, chances are the prime culprit will be the right one: Adolin. He was around at the time of the murder, he was unacquainted for a long period of time. 

 

This being said, nothing is ever completely impossible, but my particular feelings on the matter are it would be poor plotting. It would feel too contrived as there are no valid reasons to blame Kaladin others than wanting to create an artificial difficulty for him. This isn't Brandon's writing style: he much prefers having his characters face difficulties which are within themselves as opposed to invent ones for them. Kaladin issues lie with himself: he has dealt with his selfishness when it came to decide who needed to be protected and who didn't. Now I suspect he will be more open-minded: it was a great moment for him. His future struggles have been highlighted towards the end of WoR when he became a lighteyed, even if momentarily. He will now have to deal with his increased status and learn how to navigate in a world he hates. For my part, he has more than enough with just that: being accused of murder is not required. It shouldn't be his arc, that one should remain within the Kholins.

 

 

As for Adolin, and the Kholin family in general, I worry what will happen to them.

How Adolin reacted, I don't think that he will admit to murdering Sadeas, or he will take a while to admit to it. I think Adolin will not want to tell Dalinar, and then be torn because he should tell his father, but then there is the shame of failure...

However, not telling Dalinar will only make things worse when he finds out that it was Adolin. There will be outrage among the high princes, and Dalinar will be torn between his love for Adolin, and his own code of honor, which will force him to punish Adolin.

 

For my part, I certainly wish for the "murder arc" to be relevant for the Kholin family. As a whole, I feel as if we haven't spend enough time with them, so I am happy about this particular plot.

 

The way I read Adolin, there is definitely an aspect pertaining failure: the way he always tries to be someone he is not. The Adolin we see from third person's perspective and the Adolin we read whenever we are in his head sound like very different person. He is always striving to be whatever it is he feels others expect to see, somehow fearing if he were to let the mask drop, it would admitting failure. A failure to conform, to be exactly what is expected of him. There are various words I could use here, but this is, I believe, the essence of the character. There is more than meet the eyes and one shouldn't judge based on first impressions, as Kaladin later learns.

 

I also read a lot of fear built in Adolin, though they aren't the kind of fears you typically expect out of a fantasy character. In other words, he does not fear battle nor armed conflicts, but he does fear not being up to his father's standards which are quite high. Therefore, for Adolin to confess, it would require him being ready to face one of his worst fears: being deemed insufficient by his father, admitting he has failed and potentially lose the love of his closest ones. It is harsh. In fantasy, we tend to spend more time with physical struggles and not enough with psychological ones. Adolin, I think, is a great character for this as his struggles are extremely relatable: the pressure to perform, stress, some anxiety, trying to fit in by being someone he is not, rejection... Those are very modern issues which is part of the reason why I dig so much in the character. Everyone, no matter their background, whether they are neurotypical or not, have dealt with some of those issues. 

 

As for Dalinar, I do think you are right in stating his code of honor will demand retribution against his own son whom he loves (but he may momentarily forget about that through his anger). Honor is a hard one. I enjoy honor when it means doing as you said you would do, keeping your word once given, being fair towards others, but I strongly dislike honor when it is used to blindly apply a set of rules without any discernment which is exactly what I believe Dalinar is doing. The codes are Honor and therefore must be maintain, no matter the cost. It is a bizarre way of thinking which I do not approve of: it divides the world into white and black while refusing to acknowledge grey exists. 

 

My reading has it Dalinar has not progressed far enough, as a person, to forgive Adolin and to avoid being too harsh on him. I do think poor Adolin will suffer greatly through out the next book. As his typical with Brandon's characters, his struggles are going to be mostly internal: him dealing with his guilt, with failure, with inadequacy and the increased stress/anxiety which will arise in consequences. The cocktail of emotions into Adolin is bound to be toxic which may push him to take risks he wouldn't have taken: anything in order to regain what he has lost up.

 

 

I don't think that we won't see Adolin get a character arc in the next book. Adolin is going to see some serious change in the next book. Killing Sadeas is undoubtably going to have serious effects on him and his relationship with others. Adolin's arc may not be the main one— we know Dalinar's arc is the main one— but it is going to change him in some profound ways, and I think it will affect Dalinars arc, also.

 

In my time spend within the fandom, it has become obvious, since the release of WoR, that Adolin was a highly anticipated arc. Sure not everyone digs into the character as much as I do, but the seer number of discussions he has created and keeps on creating certainly indicate a high level of interest within the readers for this particular arc. 

 

In essence, the latest SA3 Update Brandon posted on Reddit has been a severe disappointment for the numerous Adolin fans. He published a great, long and very detailed text with no mention of Adolin whatsoever. He named him once, in a one sentence, together with Navani whom is considered, still be the readers, as a less important character. From my perspective, this is a problem which has been nagging me greatly. The readers talk a lot about Adolin (the character's popularity has only increased since the release of WoR, he has since turned into a fan's favorite), but the author doesn't. There seem to be a real disconnect here which is why I keep fearing "Adolin's arc" won't be satisfactory. 

 

I have yet to find another series with such a clear chasm in between what I perceives as the "readers views" and the "author's views". Usually, it is obvious within any given series who is a main character and who isn't, but Adolin is a special case... The readers read him as more important than the author admitted he was. It is problematic for those of us who really love the character. What is his status within the story? And why is it the author never mentions one of the most discussed character since the release of WoR? Why does he always talk of anyone else, but not him, him who holds on to one of the most anticipated read for SA3? Why no words at all? From my reader's perspective, it is hard to understand, but I am sure Brandon has his reasons. However, up until I finally get to read the book or up until I get re-assurance I will get to read a decent Adolin arc (by decent I mean a larger one than he has had so far, an arc which would not end up in climaxes being transferred to Kaladin) into book 3, I will angst over it and I will fear all of my expectations will be crushed over.

 

This being said, I do agree whatever happens here will also happen within Dalinar's arc. Both characters have growth to have here, my main point of contention is I don't want to read it solely from Dalinar's perspective. I want to read what happens to Adolin, what he feels about it and what is he going to do about it.

 

 

Ialai is going to be dangerous. She has (from what we've seen from Sadeas's perspective in WoR) the largest and most secret spy ring in the war camps. I find it very plausible that she will find out that Adolin killed her husband. When she does find out, she is going to use that information to do everything she can to tear the Kholin family to shreds.

 

 

So there are my thoughts on the matter... 

 

A lot of people expect Ialai to be dangerous and I tend to agree though I would say to be careful. It is also possible she is a Red Hearing and she won't make up a threat as great as we have envisioned. So all in all, I am partial about her implication. I say it can happen, but I also say it may not happen. Providing it does happen, she could try several actions: working in the open does not strike to me as her style, so I would wager on her trying to get Adolin assassinated. Poison, perhaps. This way you have Shallan trying to soulcast again in order to save him which would be a neat arc for her.

 

 

Yeah, I dont think its very likely either. Probably the reason I didnt think of it lol. But Im sure he will be a suspect. Probably not for long because he has an alibi. I do wonder how Adolin will be caught, because unless one of Sadeas' servants saw that he was chit chattin with our boy Addy, I dont see Ialais spy network helping her here. He would actually have to confess, and I dont see that happening. I mean, there were a lot of people who wanted Sadeas dead. Well, maybe not "wanted him dead", but they certainly would celebrate it I believe. But Maxal, I consider you the ultimate Adolin info source lol, so I will leave the likelihood of whether he will confess or not up to you.

Either way it goes, I havent been this excited for a book since I was waiting on the release of WoR lol. Im very glad Brandon doesnt write like GRRM. His slowness really irks me.

Edited for typos.

 

Ah I am glad to be the "Ultimate Adolin Info Source"   Based on my reading of the character, I do think he will talk. Not right away though, but eventually, he will talk. He won't be able to keep in such as secret inside, it will eat him up. I suspect his behavior will be very erratic, he will suffer from heavy stress induced illnesses (my take are stomach aches, loss of appetite and probably sleeping issues), in between the beginning of SA3 and the moment he is found out. People may notice he doesn't look as if he is feeling right, sick perhaps, but they may also not notice as nobody ever thinks twice on how Adolin feels about stuff.

 

For my part, the question isn't "Will Adolin talk?", but more "When and to who?" and "Before or after the snare starts to close on him?". I would thus rate the likelihood of Adolin confessing as medium to high, but I admit there is a way for him not to confess... If his fear of facing his father (and the consequences) supersedes his desire to remove this pressure from himself, then he may keep quiet. However, since we are talking about life changing murder and not just a broken jar or a messed up car, not dealing with his guilt will probably trust Adolin into a negative emotional loop where he probably will try to make himself justice, unknown to all. The stress, the anxiety, it will take its toll on Adolin: even if he doesn't talk, he will burst at some point or he'll do something very stupid such as sacrificing himself or thinking he needs to. These are more or less the reactions I expect, in part or in fullness, but something along those lines.

Edited June 10, 2016 by maxal

[Argel]

So who takes over for Sadeas? Wouldn't there need to be a new Highprince?  And where does that leave Ialai? Plus there's the whole destruction of the world thing going on. She may decide it's not in her best interests to seek revenge. Or she may have a succession "war" to contend with. Her battle could even be to remain relevant, similar to Navani's circumstances after Gavilar's assassination.

 

Edit: Regarding Adolin, not sure what to expect there. Maybe the best to hope for is a companion book.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Argel

[maxal]

So who takes over for Sadeas? Wouldn't there need to be a new Highprince?  And where does that leave Ialai? Plus there's the whole destruction of the world thing going on. She may decide it's not in her best interests to seek revenge. Or she may have a succession "war" to contend with. Her battle could even be to remain relevant, similar to Navani's circumstances after Gavilar's assassination.

 

Edit: Regarding Adolin, not sure what to expect there. Maybe the best to hope for is a companion book.

 

These are interesting thoughts with respect to Ialai... We have gotten a glimpse of what awaits her through Navani: her power and influence, it appears, only existed because of her husband. What means with the widow of a Highprince be truly left with to bargain a decent future for herself, one cannot tell. As you say, seeking revenge may not be in her best interest, but seeking marriage with the next possible Highprince may be. Who will sit at the top of the former Sadeas princedom is yet to be same, but Elhokar is now left with a hefty problem on his hands: two of his princedoms are currently without a Highprince. Can he turn the tide over and get someone sympathetic to the Kholins in there or will we witness the arrival of villains? Could it be Jakamav who takes hold of the former Roion princedom and if so, what will it mean for Adolin?

 

In any advent, this particular arc is bound to be interesting. I for one certainly hope the new Highprinces won't be some obscure brightlord we never heard of, but some foe we already know. It would make it more interesting, even more so if killing Sadeas makes matters worst by putting new enemies at the top of the food chain. You know what they say: "It is better to have a known enemy than an unknown one". With Sadeas, at least, they knew what to expect... So what if Adolin made matters worst? This is sure bond to be interesting for him if it turns out this way.

 

Nobody is sure what to expect with respect to Adolin: most of those I have been conversing with are very ambivalent and most have been disappointed with Adolin apparent lack of exposure going into book 3. This SA3 Update was a sure knock into the knees of many Adolin followers: not one mention of him. How can Brandon think the readers do not think the story isn't also about Adolin after writing WoR? His status is very uncertain and while what is to come may turn being AMAZING it could also turn out being disappointing. Oh the story will be good, I have no doubt, but will Adolin's arc morphed into the great one many readers have come to expect or will it remain the arc of a second fiddle, forever in the shadow of the "other characters"? We do not know, hence my constant source of angst. A companion book would be amazing, but unlikely to happen... Of all characters Brandon has mentioned perhaps wanting to expand one via a novella, Adolin has never been one of them. Chances are he'll just be the Wayne of SA. We get to see some of him, there are few good glimpses here and there, but it clearly isn't his story. I am fine with it when it comes to Wayne because he sounds insane most of the time, but Adolin, I think the character has potential. A lot of it. I'd be sad to see it go to waste or to finish the first arc thinking it could have been done better. Hopefully, it won't happen, but I sincerely fear for it.

 

I'd like to say this is exactly how I felt after finishing Codex Alera... I thought Crassus and Maximus had a lot of potential, but it didn't mount up to much. I thought it was a very disappointing turn of events: these characters could have been done better. They had good basis, the author simply refuse to play them off. 

[Pathfinder]

One tidbit of info I would like to add. I do not believe Ialai will necessarily end up like Navani. Navani already had two grown children, one a male heir and another to marry off by the time Galivar died. The power then passed to Elhokar as Galivar's heir. Now there was one thread that spoke of the possibility of Ialai being pregnant or having children back home, but I personally do not think that is true. Therefore it leaves her as a very eligible widow who many nobles will seek to marry to secure her land and titles. I could totally see her choosing an idiot that she could manipulate and remain the real power behind the title. 

[maxal]

One tidbit of info I would like to add. I do not believe Ialai will necessarily end up like Navani. Navani already had two grown children, one a male heir and another to marry off by the time Galivar died. The power then passed to Elhokar as Galivar's heir. Now there was one thread that spoke of the possibility of Ialai being pregnant or having children back home, but I personally do not think that is true. Therefore it leaves her as a very eligible widow who many nobles will seek to marry to secure her land and titles. I could totally see her choosing an idiot that she could manipulate and remain the real power behind the title. 

 

Then we would need to know the benefit to marry a woman of Ialai's standing despite her incapacity to produce heirs. Being into her fifties (she was within an age of Gavilar, Dalinar, Navani and Sadeas, we saw her during the second flashback and she was a mature woman already married to Sadeas), I'd say she has passed the child-bearing age. Then again, I seem to recall Lin wanting to marry Balat to an old 50-something widow in order to increase the family status... Does anyone remember this? It might be relevant for this discussion as whatever benefit there was for Balat sure exist for anyone wanting to marry Ialai.

 

If the fact she cannot have children anymore is not a factor, then I certainly agree with her choosing not just some random young man to play with   but the next Highprince. By marrying her, some up-comer may get a definite boost in status, being the new face of the princedom while Ialai pulls the strings behind. I kinda love the idea of Ialai finding herself a new play thing within the person of a young handsome man.... showing us, the readers, being pass the child-bearing age does not diminishes her worth. It would be a nice change as Medieval times only rated women with their ability to have babies.

[Pathfinder]

Then we would need to know the benefit to marry a woman of Ialai's standing despite her incapacity to produce heirs. Being into her fifties (she was within an age of Gavilar, Dalinar, Navani and Sadeas, we saw her during the second flashback and she was a mature woman already married to Sadeas), I'd say she has passed the child-bearing age. Then again, I seem to recall Lin wanting to marry Balat to an old 50-something widow in order to increase the family status... Does anyone remember this? It might be relevant for this discussion as whatever benefit there was for Balat sure exist for anyone wanting to marry Ialai.

 

If the fact she cannot have children anymore is not a factor, then I certainly agree with her choosing not just some random young man to play with   but the next Highprince. By marrying her, some up-comer may get a definite boost in status, being the new face of the princedom while Ialai pulls the strings behind. I kinda love the idea of Ialai finding herself a new play thing within the person of a young handsome man.... showing us, the readers, being pass the child-bearing age does not diminishes her worth. It would be a nice change as Medieval times only rated women with their ability to have babies.

I do believe, at least regarding European forms of succession, if she married a younger man, and then she died, he would keep the title and could remarry. What may muddy things up is if a heir was specifically chosen. (out of curiosity last week I had read up on Henry the 8th). So if Sadeas already named someone, Lalai is out. If he didn't, she gets the titles. If she remarries but makes a clause where someone else inherits (as with Queen Elizabeth from Queen Mary), then the new guy gets nothing/or whats stipulated upon. This is of course all assuming Alethi nobility functions the same way as European especially when considering the Alethi culture more mimics Asian cultures. I think I may do some digging into that......

 

edit: so what it looks like is first it is the direct child of Sadeas. Male takes precedence. If no male son, and only daughter, then they may either look to a male brother or relative. If not then the daughter. If there is no child to inherit, nor male relative, then I believe it stays with the wife. But as these are rulers and they can at times make their own rules, there is always an exception lol

Edited June 10, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Tharatariel10]

This is a great topic! So many interesting points!

Does anyone else enjoy the parallel situation of Kaladin and Adolin?  Maybe I'm just making it up:

Both characters have light-eyed men in their lives who they know to have deceived and betrayed.  For Kaladin: it is Amaram (among others...but let's keep it to Amaram); for Adolin: Sadeas.  They both have a vengeful hate for these men.  Both of them try to fulfill their vengeance through a duel; both fail to do so for multiple reasons.  Although you can argue that Kaladin is never really given the opportunity to physically harm Amaram - instead he allows Dalinar's acceptance that Amaram is deceitful to in some ways justify his vengeance - I think it could be argued that by this point in WoR Kaladin has already changed much of his anger towards Elhokar.  He now realizes that Elhokar is to blame for Roshone coming to Hearthstone, thus his brother going into the army, thus Kaladin being betrayed by Amaram.  So his desire for vengeance takes a turn against Elhokar.  And what does he do?  Well, he realizes that his desire to kill because he hates someone is not compatible with his desire to protect.  He chooses honor over vengeance.

Adolin, on the otherhand, is given a similar opportunity to kill the man whom he blames for so much trouble in his life, to take the life of a man whom he hates.  And he does.  

Now, I agree with @maxal up there (somewhere...) that he does this is a moment of weakness, not really knowing what he does.  He sort of loses it for and lets his emotions cloud his judgment. So, his culpability is debatable (and let's face it, aren't we glad SOMEONE killed Sadeas??)  I do think he will feel immense sorrow and guilt, and I am pretty sure he will not hide behind another man (definitely not Kaladin) but come forth and admit his failure.  Which will be incredibly interesting and I can't wait!

To add to the original topic - I doubt that Adolin would suffer Kaladin to take the blame for Sadeas' murder because of his strange liking/loyalty to Kaladin.  Think of when he stayed in prison while Kaladin was there.  He wouldn't even allow Kaladin to suffer alone because he recognized he owed his life to his bravery.  Adolin's sense of compassion and honor demanded that he share imprisonment with him; even if it was just to make a statement that Kaladin's punishment was uncalled for.  

In light of that example of Adolin's character, I think that it would be a difficult turn for him to then suddenly allow Kaladin to take the blame for his own crimes, which is completely false and unjust!  

[Argel]

Don't forget Amaram actually believes it was for the better good and Kaladin is surprises when he recognizes it. I think that may play a factor in how his feelings shifted. Kaladin does understand actions based on convictions. Greed is easier to hate. It's also not clear how much of an immediate threat Amaram is.

Adolin definitely hates Sadeas, but it's also clearer that he is a perceived serious "immediate" threat. It's hard not feel it was justified. Guess we will see what the price for that will be.

I don't think Adolin was the only one with anger issues though. Sadeas was goading him on -- some serious hatred for Dalinar had devolved. Kharma for Sadeas, fur sure.

[maxal]

13 hours ago, Tharatariel10 said:

This is a great topic! So many interesting points!

Does anyone else enjoy the parallel situation of Kaladin and Adolin?  Maybe I'm just making it up:

Both characters have light-eyed men in their lives who they know to have deceived and betrayed.  For Kaladin: it is Amaram (among others...but let's keep it to Amaram); for Adolin: Sadeas.  They both have a vengeful hate for these men.  Both of them try to fulfill their vengeance through a duel; both fail to do so for multiple reasons.  Although you can argue that Kaladin is never really given the opportunity to physically harm Amaram - instead he allows Dalinar's acceptance that Amaram is deceitful to in some ways justify his vengeance - I think it could be argued that by this point in WoR Kaladin has already changed much of his anger towards Elhokar.  He now realizes that Elhokar is to blame for Roshone coming to Hearthstone, thus his brother going into the army, thus Kaladin being betrayed by Amaram.  So his desire for vengeance takes a turn against Elhokar.  And what does he do?  Well, he realizes that his desire to kill because he hates someone is not compatible with his desire to protect.  He chooses honor over vengeance.

Adolin, on the otherhand, is given a similar opportunity to kill the man whom he blames for so much trouble in his life, to take the life of a man whom he hates.  And he does.  

Now, I agree with @maxal up there (somewhere...) that he does this is a moment of weakness, not really knowing what he does.  He sort of loses it for and lets his emotions cloud his judgment. So, his culpability is debatable (and let's face it, aren't we glad SOMEONE killed Sadeas??)  I do think he will feel immense sorrow and guilt, and I am pretty sure he will not hide behind another man (definitely not Kaladin) but come forth and admit his failure.  Which will be incredibly interesting and I can't wait!

To add to the original topic - I doubt that Adolin would suffer Kaladin to take the blame for Sadeas' murder because of his strange liking/loyalty to Kaladin.  Think of when he stayed in prison while Kaladin was there.  He wouldn't even allow Kaladin to suffer alone because he recognized he owed his life to his bravery.  Adolin's sense of compassion and honor demanded that he share imprisonment with him; even if it was just to make a statement that Kaladin's punishment was uncalled for.  

In light of that example of Adolin's character, I think that it would be a difficult turn for him to then suddenly allow Kaladin to take the blame for his own crimes, which is completely false and unjust!  

The difference in between Kaladin and Adolin is Kaladin, calmly rationalize he must kill Elhokar to end his reign of tyranny (well Elhokar is no tyrant, but to Kaladin he is) while Adolin simply burst out in an emotion display of instability. Kaladin purposefully wanted to kill Elhokar and genuinely decided the king must die. Adolin makes no rationalization, his fuse just went out, he blacked out. His actions weren't reflected nor do I think he was in complete control of himself. My thought are he went into some sort of "rage mode" where his instincts short-circuited his brain and all which mattered was to remove this threat. Afterwards, he is confused and clearly in shock.

Therefore, for my part, while there is a similitude to both Kaladin and Adolin's ordeal, I think there are many dissimilitude. The major difference in between the two is Kaladin controlled himself while Adolin couldn't. In any advent, Adolin is never letting anyone take the blame for him, be it Kaladin or anyone else. Part of me also wonder if Adolin has not already decided his own life was expendable and has accepted he may need to die to fulfill his father's visions.............

7 hours ago, Argel said:

I don't think Adolin was the only one with anger issues though. Sadeas was goading him on -- some serious hatred for Dalinar had devolved. Kharma for Sadeas, fur sure.

Sadeas was ambitious. He wanted to throne for himself and as he saw his former friend weakening, he thought the time was right. He also dislike seeing the kingdom being into the hand of a man he perceives as weak. He tried direct confrontation to remove Dalinar and it failed because the man has 9 life. So he went for alternate approach: he went for the son. Sadeas identify early on how unstable Adolin is and decides he can use him to his advantage. It isn't Dalinar he was aiming for anymore, but Adolin. Take the son out and break the father's will.

Sadeas has no anger issues: he is very calm and calculating. A weasel, truly. Adolin is an emotive young man who has a hard time dealing with the unexpected: it adds up onto his shoulder and at some point, the valve just can't keep the flow in. 

[Argel]

Maybe not anger, but I think by the end he was at least obsessed with besting Dalinar. That is, that it was not just about power anymore. 

Good point about Kaladin thinking it through. But if he had followed through, that would just make it worse

[Stormgate]

The main difference between Kaladin's decision to kill the king and Adolin's snap decision is the reason. Kaladin simply wanted revenge. Adolin was removing a threat. Not to himself, Adolin is not the kind of person to react that way to threats against himself, but a threat to his father and everything he had come to stand for. While Dalinar tried not to admit it, as long as Sadeas was alive, he had no chance of unifying the kingdom.

Kaladin was lashing out, whereas the goading of Sadeas was the piece of shalebark that broke the chull's shell.

[maxal]

6 hours ago, Argel said:

Maybe not anger, but I think by the end he was at least obsessed with besting Dalinar. That is, that it was not just about power anymore. 

Good point about Kaladin thinking it through. But if he had followed through, that would just make it worse

A I said, I tend to read Sadeas as a cunning and calculating individual as opposed to an emotional one. He doesn't give ways to his negative emotions, he puts them into a locker and he then, calmly think of how he could best reach his goal.

As for Kaladin, I guess it depends. The argument could be made lashing out in a display of emotions makes you the most dangerous, unpredictable, but then again, cold and calculating is often used to depict villains. This being said, since Brandon explicitly told us Jasnah murdering the thugs was a worst crime than Adolin murdering Sadeas, it would be safe to assume Kaladin's would have been the worst. Worst than Jasnah even because Jasnah didn't target anyone in particular, she didn't even know she would be attacked: she made the educated guess she would be and such was her purpose, but had Kaladin murdered Elhokar (or watch him being murdered which quite frankly is basically considered the same in modern day law), he would have singled out one particular individual. There also wouldn't have been any element of random in Kaladin's deed and his logic was less sound. The men Jasnah killed, at least, were true criminals. Elhokar is many things, but he isn't a criminal.

6 hours ago, Stormgate said:

The main difference between Kaladin's decision to kill the king and Adolin's snap decision is the reason. Kaladin simply wanted revenge. Adolin was removing a threat. Not to himself, Adolin is not the kind of person to react that way to threats against himself, but a threat to his father and everything he had come to stand for. While Dalinar tried not to admit it, as long as Sadeas was alive, he had no chance of unifying the kingdom.

Kaladin was lashing out, whereas the goading of Sadeas was the piece of shalebark that broke the chull's shell.

Dalinar would have let Sadeas have his way and potentially further cripple his army simply to avoid having to go against his code. This is exactly the kind of rigidity I worry about going into book 3. 

How many think Dalinar would be capable of sending his son to execution simply to uphold his code?

You must unite and not divide... This is a tricky one... Taranvangian is also trying to unite and not divide, but to do so, he eliminates all of those who would oppose him. So if Dalinar kills his son, which work he is accomplishing? Am I the only one who think by sacrificing his son for the sake of Sadeas inthinking it a worthy price for unity, Dalinar would accomplish the opposite by further dividing the kingdom?

[Lopens_Cousin]

On 3/17/2016 at 8:34 PM, maxal said:

And this is the sad truth which makes me fear reading book 3.

Oh no...now I am, too... I've been  little worried that Adolin's situation could turn into a big distraction. I just never saw Saddeas as that important to the greater arcs of SA. As @maxal says, Adolin is a foil, and probably this whole thing will be a conflict for Dalinar to work out... but that means that Dalinar is going to be tested (duh), and Adolin is, utimately, dispensable to arc. How hard is that test going to be? The fear is growing ... what about Shallan's connection with Adolin? It's too early for happiness to last, if it is attained at all, for main characters... Seeing how Shallan would react to that loss might almost be worth it...almost . Adolin was so fun to read in the later parts of WoR, oh man, it sucks when you figure out that some characters are more important to you than to the actual story

 

43 minutes ago, maxal said:

Am I the only one who think by sacrificing his son for the sake of Sadeas inthinking it a worthy price for unity, Dalinar would accomplish the opposite by further dividing the kingdom?

I actually don't think that Dalinar will execute Adolin. It certainly seems that it will be a choice he will have to wrestle with, but I just can't believe he'd do it. That seems like something a Skybreaker would do, besides, we know that because of his own past, Dalinar is forgiving of past sins. 

However, I don't think that lets Adolin off. I don't have any theories, yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if Dalinar made the decision to spare Adolin, despite what he thinks it might cost Alethkar, and then somehow Adolin still dies. Perhaps he sacrifices himself, or just loses, in some battle with Eshonai...

Edited July 13, 2016 by lopens_cousin

[maxal]

21 minutes ago, lopens_cousin said:

Oh no...now I am, too... I've been  little worried that Adolin's situation could turn into a big distraction. I just never saw Saddeas as that important to the greater arcs of SA. As @maxal says, Adolin is a foil, and probably this whole thing will be a conflict for Dalinar to work out... but that means that Dalinar is going to be tested (duh), and Adolin is, utimately, dispensable to arc. How hard is that test going to be? The fear is growing ... what about Shallan's connection with Adolin? It's too early for happiness to last, if it is attained at all, for main characters... Seeing how Shallan would react to that loss might almost be worth it...almost . Adolin was so fun to read in the later parts of WoR, oh man, it sucks when you figure out that some characters are more important to you than to the actual story

This last one has been my major cause of angst with respect to the Stormlight Archive for the last year or so. Ever since I found out Adolin was never moving up the ladder of characters, I have been seriously disappointed especially since those planned to do so didn't speak to me personally. This being said, Adolin perhaps is expendable narrative wise, but he isn't expendable for the readers. Trust me, Brandon knows how popular Adolin has gotten and he is taking it into consideration. I think he is going to try to please the Adolin' fans, but I worry about his planning for SA3 as it doesn't seem to allow much page time for him. I think he is going to have Adolin revive his Blade at some point, he has been given out clues about it recently. The problem I foresee is what the author considers satisfying character development for a supporting character may not be sufficient for the numerous readers who see Adolin as a more important character than "tertiary". I think the readers perspective and the author's perspective may differ here.

 I am thus almost convinced most of the conflict over Sadeas death will mostly pass through Dalinar. The complete absence of Adolin's POV in Part 1 and the foreseen absence of Adolin's POV in Part 2 (based on the latest update, I could be wrong about this one, but so is my understanding. If someone somehow manages to ask Brandon, I'd be eternally grateful because the prospect of no Adolin POV until page 500 is almost a deal breaker for me ) which would bring us way pass the first half of the book before we get to read at least one Adolin's POV, kinda of hints towards it. I thus think Dalinar is in for a great dilemma where he will consider executing his own son and where he will think it a worthy price for his unity, right before realizing he got it wrong.

My thoughts are the test will be super hard and if I were writing this story, I'd be harder for Adolin, because it makes more sense to me. He's the one who is going to be faced with losing his father's trust.

38 minutes ago, lopens_cousin said:

I actually don't think that Dalinar will execute Adolin. It certainly seems that it will be a choice he will have to wrestle with, but I just can't believe he'd do it. That seems like something a Skybreaker would do, besides, we know that because of his own past, Dalinar is forgiving of past sins. 

However, I don't think that lets Adolin off. I don't have any theories, yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if Dalinar made the decision to spare Adolin, despite what he thinks it might cost Alethkar, and then somehow Adolin still dies. Perhaps he sacrifices himself, or just loses, in some battle with Eshonai...

I don't think he will, but I think he may think of it. He may even make the first steps towards it. I think one of his oaths will likely tackle how this unity should be attained as it is obvious Taravangian's way isn't the "right" way. Executing Adolin isn't either. Dalinar may think he needs to lead by example, so he may thinks he need to be more honorable than Honor himself and Honor would demand he sacrifices his son.

I have had a pet theory Adolin will indeed die, only to be revived by Renarin. Probably too cheesy and predictable. We can't have this happen too often, but it may be what Dalinar will need to be able to forgive him: seeing his son dying, for him, for his visions.

[Argel]

If that knife is never found (yeah right) or dealt with in a better way, then there is also the possibility that there is not enough evidence to act on from a legal standpoint, which leaves us with personal issues. Loss of trust. Does Adolin confide in someone such as Renarin or Shallan, etc.  Does he start drinking more... Lots of opportunities for ramifications that don't involved legal proceedings.... Does he run away (e.g. volunteer for a mission)....

[thegatorgirl00]

13 hours ago, maxal said:

 I am thus almost convinced most of the conflict over Sadeas death will mostly pass through Dalinar. The complete absence of Adolin's POV in Part 1 and the foreseen absence of Adolin's POV in Part 2 (based on the latest update, I could be wrong about this one, but so is my understanding. If someone somehow manages to ask Brandon, I'd be eternally grateful because the prospect of no Adolin POV until page 500 is almost a deal breaker for me ) which would bring us way pass the first half of the book before we get to read at least one Adolin's POV, kinda of hints towards it. I thus think Dalinar is in for a great dilemma where he will consider executing his own son and where he will think it a worthy price for his unity, right before realizing he got it wrong.

Is Adolin not tertiary character one in the outline? I thought that he was, which would put him in parts two, four, and five. 

[maxal]

17 hours ago, Argel said:

If that knife is never found (yeah right) or dealt with in a better way, then there is also the possibility that there is not enough evidence to act on from a legal standpoint, which leaves us with personal issues. Loss of trust. Does Adolin confide in someone such as Renarin or Shallan, etc.  Does he start drinking more... Lots of opportunities for ramifications that don't involved legal proceedings.... Does he run away (e.g. volunteer for a mission)....

It could be they never gather enough proof to convict him or it could be he simply admits his guilt, either way Adolin is going to have a reaction. What might he do? Each time I try to go down this path, based on my reading of his character, I end up paddling into murky waters. In other words, it is not easy to predict, so I have classified potential issues into their likeliness to happen.

Develop a problem with alcohol

We all know Dalinar had problems with alcohol. We have had inklings Elhokar has the same problem, but so far, Adolin's relationship with alcohol seems pretty normal. He frowns on Elhokar's excess which makes me think he wouldn't sink that low. Oh he may get massively drunk, once but he'll feel horrible on the morrow only to probably swear to never touch a drop of wine ever again.

Develop a problem with other substances

If the "substance" is used to increase one's physical prowess, efficiency and alertness then yes, I totally see him going for it, just as he went for ridgebark after the first Szeth encounter. Now surrounded by people who need less than 2h of sleep per night in a world where he has to prove his worth all over again due to having lost his father' trust, I definitely picture Adolin going for the one thing which may help him squeeze more hours of hard work per day and abuse. Because. He needs to perform.

Run away

If he gets into the mindset his presence is endangering his family, then yes, I could see him deciding they are better off without him. He could come to think he needs to take away in order to dissociate his actions from his father, to make the world know Dalinar had nothing to do with it. The problem would be how do you run away from a city only accessible through an oathgate needing a live Shardblade and a Radiant to exit?

Volunteer for a very dangerous mission and refuse to be told not to go or maybe leaves for it in the dead of the night which goes back to running away

Yes. This may be one of the most plausible course of action: he'll do something stupid, very stupid and probably dangerous. He would have many reasons to do so and here are a few: thinking he needs to do something big to regain his father's trust, thinking his life is the most expendable as the only non-Radiant (he already thinks he is expendable), not seeing any reason to keep on going into this new world and thus setting for a "glorious ending" or maybe it is just Dalinar who sends him of in a fit of anger. 

Keep quiet, not say a world and try to get away with it

No. This I do not see. This is completely unlike Adolin to keep secret not to mention he is terrible at lying. His emotions will betray him, sooner than later.

That's about it, most scenarios I usually think of typically involve one of those and their variations as a scenario.

8 hours ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

Is Adolin not tertiary character one in the outline? I thought that he was, which would put him in parts two, four, and five. 

I have not been able to find this confirmation from the author if it is indeed the case. I had initially thought he must be, but the latest SA3 update spoke of Part 2 as being mostly a novella featuring a character we have not yet met who's goal was to explore the lore of the world. He said it had little action and the main cast had little page time in it: he said it was mostly character and lore building. My understanding is thus Part 2 almost exclusively focus on this new character, so no Adolin. If there are basically no Dalinar/Shallan/Kaladin into Part 2, then surely there are no Adolin. 

I therefore think Adolin is probably tertiary 3 or 4, the one who has almost no POV time. I have no idea who tertiary one maybe, Szeth I guess or maybe Eshonai. They are the main characters, not Adolin. Anyway. Ever since the release of WoR, all I have gotten concerning Adolin's future role within the upcoming books have been disappointment and more disappointment. 

 

 

[asterion137]

On 3/11/2016 at 7:48 PM, IntentAwesome said:

You're right. If I recall correctly, Kaladin was meeting with Dalinar when Sadeas was killed, but will they be able to pin the timing down well enough to prove that? Kaladin could easily have done it right before or right after that meeting. 

 

Judging from the guards' reaction to Shallan in Urithiru, and the fact that the Radiants' betrayal has been deeply indoctrinated in these people, I would say that Kaladin's Radiant status is more likely to make people nervous about him and his motives, rather than trust/revere him. I think it is enough for them to maybe not openly go against him, but not enough to remove suspicion. 

 

And, yes, Kaladin has repeatedly saved the King and the rest of the Kholin family, but is anybody else really privy to this knowledge except the Kholins? Did Sebarial witness his fight with Szeth? Dalinar is making strides politically, but it's still not clear that he has all the highprinces behind him. 

Kal couldn't have murdered Sadeas before. A whole bunch of people saw him walk out of the portal from the Shattered Plains.

His rescue of Dalinar was near the command tent and he was glowing like a floodlight in the middle of the night. I'm pretty sure everyone saw it. There's also the arena fight, which took place in front of half the Alethi army.

[Argel]

Everyone seems to be assuming they will be able to nail down Sadeas time of death to roughly when it occurred. But do we know they can be that accurate? If it ends up being  "killed within the past 2-3 hours" then Kaladin may have had time.