Master Elodin Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Wait. Isn't Frost the definition of True Neutral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Carmony Posted March 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Desolation? Sure, but that doesn't make him Lawful Neutral, as he was killing people with flimsy evidence that it would meet his personal goal- and whoops, turns it that it was correlation not causation that the radiants start appearing in greater numbers before desolations. Doing bad things for good reasons doesn't make you neutral, it makes you evil but with good intentions. He does neutral things for arbitrary law reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Here are a couple: Nalan: Lawful Neutral Taravangian: Lawful EvilHarmony: Lawful Neutral (see the quote in my signature...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Wait. Isn't Frost the definition of True Neutral? Seems like a reasonable interpretation of the doctrine of non-interference, not that that's the only way to be True Neutral. Harmony is another good example of True Neutral, viewing both Preservation and Ruin as necessary opposites that must be held in balance. The normal example of True Neutral is someone who doesn't care about moral justifications or making consistent decisions and just wants to look after their family and friends, but Brandon hasn't really done any characters like that IIRC. He does neutral things for arbitrary law reasons. Killing someone for a technical violation of the law is not a neutral thing. Even if you believe in the death penalty I think many people would agree Nalan was "evil" to apply it the way he did. He's certainly VERY lawful, but I fail to see how he's neutrally aligned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Stick is true neutral. Deny it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Stick is true neutral. Deny it. Denied. I think you could argue Stick is Lawful Neutral. Stick lives true to the law of being a stick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three1415 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Personally I find the D&D spectrum somewhat off; in my version of it, 'Chaotic Good' and 'Lawful Good' flip such that CG is 'best good.' If one really considers, say, Windrunners vs. Skybreakers, people would almost certainly judge the former as chaotic good but also better than their counterparts, who obey laws exactly even if they are unjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Personally I find the D&D spectrum somewhat off; in my version of it, 'Chaotic Good' and 'Lawful Good' flip such that CG is 'best good.' If one really considers, say, Windrunners vs. Skybreakers, people would almost certainly judge the former as chaotic good but also better than their counterparts, who obey laws exactly even if they are unjust. While agree with your assessment of Windwinners vs. Skybreakers as a good example of Chaotic good vs. Lawful good, I'm not sure I agree with your judgement of one being better than the other. They are just different. Either has merit depending on the circumstances;To inverse your example, the situation could just as easily be one where the laws are just but what the Windrunner views as right is unjust. In that case, wouldn't you be inclined to judge the Skybreakers as better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 While agree with your assessment of Windrunners vs. Skybreakers as a good example of Chaotic good vs. Lawful good, I'm not sure I agree with your judgement of one being better than the other. They are just different. Either has merit depending on the circumstances;To inverse your example, the situation could just as easily be one where the laws are just but what the Windrunner views as right is unjust. In that case, wouldn't you be inclined to judge the Skybreakers as better? In addition, Kaladin is oathbound not to punish the guilty. Trying to strike back at those who harm him or his only damages his bond with Syl, causing mental regression and loss of Surgebinding. He could have really used a Skybreaker when dealing with, say, Amaram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobar14 Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Sazed = Neutral Good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) While agree with your assessment of Windwinners vs. Skybreakers as a good example of Chaotic good vs. Lawful good, I'm not sure I agree with your judgement of one being better than the other. They are just different. Either has merit depending on the circumstances;To inverse your example, the situation could just as easily be one where the laws are just but what the Windrunner views as right is unjust. In that case, wouldn't you be inclined to judge the Skybreakers as better? Heh, Windwinners- freudian slip? I'd actually argue that they're great illustrations of why Lawful Good and Chaotic Good are both non-ideal extremes, and that the "best" good is actual True Good, where you're okay with obeying just laws, but push for reform of unjust laws without unnecessary violence. Of course, that's not as fun to roleplay. Edited March 24, 2016 by Ari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 On the personal level, perhaps. But on the level of society, nobody can ever agree on where to draw the line. That's when the scale tips to the chaos side. Being good is difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 For sure. That's because like any definition, they're a fuzzy concept. Broad terms like "good," "evil," "lawful," and "chaotic" are even more fuzzy, even within their narrow meanings for the alignment system. You can still be placed in the same slot on the alignment grid even if you are a "milder" version of good, or chaotic, or if you have completely different reasons for that alignment that change how you'd act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) I'm actually in the process of making an alignment chart based on Cosmere characters right now. Lawful Evil: TLR Lawful Neutral: Szeth Lawful Good: Vin Neutral Good: Harmony True Neutral: Stick Neutral Evil: Ruin? If so, I could only find the atium symbol. Chaotic Good: Kelsier/Kaladin (can't decide) Chaotic Neutral: Nightblood Chaotic Evil: Zane/Odium Also, does anyone know where I can find a good D&D Alignment Chart maker? I'd say Ruin is pretty chaotic, also I'd avoid putting Shards in there - they have Orange and Blue Morality and are hard to classify as truly good or evil While agree with your assessment of Windwinners vs. Skybreakers as a good example of Chaotic good vs. Lawful good, I'm not sure I agree with your judgement of one being better than the other. They are just different. Either has merit depending on the circumstances;To inverse your example, the situation could just as easily be one where the laws are just but what the Windrunner views as right is unjust. In that case, wouldn't you be inclined to judge the Skybreakers as better? Yeah, the Windrunners' approach can be too subjective, the Skybreakers' too objective. Which gets you into "Alloy of Law" Territory Edited March 29, 2016 by IndigoAjah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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