Mid-Range Game 12: Turf War

[Silverblade5]

How do the bankers know who didn't donate? 

Bankers will have a direct knowledge of gang members. We also have a convenient list of ways to gain points. If we pay attention, and catalog every action that leads to the point, we can use those pieces of info to see who's donated. If someone's done something that gains points, and those points aren't in the bank by next turn, then they're holding back.  

[TheSilverDragon]

Bankers will have a direct knowledge of gang members. We also have a convenient list of ways to gain points. If we pay attention, and catalog every action that leads to the point, we can use those pieces of info to see who's donated. If someone's done something that gains points, and those points aren't in the bank by next turn, then they're holding back.  

But they won't know everyone in their gang at first

[The Honor Spren]

I like Meta's plan. And I'mstill trying to figure out how the game works, so it's the only reason I haven't posted before now.

Are we allowed to say what team we're on in a roleplay post?

Edited March 12, 2016 by The Honor Spren

[Silverblade5]

But they won't know everyone in their gang at first

That info will be revealed later on if this works. Confirmed members merely set a limit, a minimum. If that minimum isn't reached, then someone is holding back. Another good idea would be for someone to keep a tally of point actions, so that we know when someone is gaining points. If this can become a designated position for only one or two people to worry about, more people will be able to focus on other jobs, whatever those might be.

[Master Elodin]

Meta, although I am convinced by your plan, I would like to point out that I you are doing the same thing that Lopen is. I won't vote for you, but it's a little suspicious.

[TheMightyLopen]

If we're all working together, then it doesn't really matter if an opposing gang member does that. Plus, we don't have to kill off all other members of the rival gangs, just their Epics. Besides that, if they don't go to their respective headquarters, then the rest of their own gang won't know that they're a part of their gang and they'll be less trusted in their own gang even (because they could be a spy from a rival gang trying to weasel their way into their gang). 

I'm actually starting to get suspicious of you, Lopen. You put forth a plan early on, but then you're trying to subtly block any other plans. Perhaps that's because you're trying to guide everyone to a plan that works out best for the Eliminators?

 

EDIT: You can consider this an answer to Elodin's concerns as well. 

 

Why are we all working together? It sounds nice in theory, but it seems difficult to really pull off because there's so many things that could go wrong. What if more than one Banker dies before we catch all the Government Agents? What if one gangs Epics all die before we kill the Government Agents? I know we don't have to kill off all the members of our respective rival gangs, but killing any of them gets the win condition closer because it either narrows down who could be an Epic, or it actually gets an Epic. What about Mailliw's clarification? With that being the way it is, don't you think it's gonna be a lot harder to get a group win for every gang?

 

I'm not trying to block your plans Meta. I'm trying to make sure we don't make a mistake and have my faction pay for it. I have no idea if what you are suggesting is because you're genuinely trying to catch the GA's and get all the gangs the win, or trying to get only YOUR gang to win, or you could even be a GA and be suggesting plans that could help you out somehow. I figured my plan would actually help you, considering your propensity to be attacked very early, because you would be in a group with other players and so would be less likely to be killed off immediately. And considering your ability to catch eliminators as often and as early as you have before, keeping you alive for a while sounds like a good way to catch GA's.

 

Your plans sound like they could be good ones, but I thought it would be best to voice my concerns and discuss them rather than just say, "sure, let's do that." A small fear I have is that, much like Wilson feared in LG15b, you realize you'll probably be scanned by a Banker as early as possible if you're alive. Maybe you're suggesting a plan that sounds innocent on the surface, but actually might benefit the GA's in some way. So I'm trying to make sure that's not the case by looking at every angle.

 

What do you think of my plan? I was kinda hoping you'd comment on it more than just "your plan might work out best for eliminators."

[Mailliw73]

Bankers will have a direct knowledge of gang members. We also have a convenient list of ways to gain points. If we pay attention, and catalog every action that leads to the point, we can use those pieces of info to see who's donated. If someone's done something that gains points, and those points aren't in the bank by next turn, then they're holding back.  

Bankers are not told who donates to them.

[Silverblade5]

Bankers are not told who donates to them.

No, but they are told how much is donated, and I believe only gang members can donate to their respective gangs. They also have the ability to figure out who is in their gang.

[Straw]

Basic plan:

Step one:

Commanders set up pms with their captains.

Captains use their points to find out a random persons gang membership.

Regulars give their points to the banker.

Step two:

Everyone on the west side go to the lab so we can get points early on.

Bankers should find the alignment of random people.

[TheMightyLopen]

Okay, well, if we're gonna have the gangs meet at certain places, we better get that settled so that most(if not all) of the players can send in their action. I'm still not certain about this plan, but I don't see any huge risks I suppose, and it might give us a good starting point to coordinate things. As far as I can tell, there are 3 places to go: Government Building(gives you an automatic 2 points), Warehouse(chance for 3 or 4 points, but possibly none or losing 3) and the Laboratory(very risky, for 3 points, but if you hardly have any points, you might want to try it). There's also the City Hall, which allows players to steal points from Banks, and have their vote counted twice. I'd say the places that give points are more valuable to the gangs though, but that's just my personal opinion. So, if we're doing this plan, how about this:

 

Blood Tyrants go to the Government Building.

Pearl Districts Neighborhood Watch's goes to the Warehouse.

The Evanescents go to the Laboratory.

 

If anyone has any complaints, you're welcome to change that up, but be warned that it may reveal information about what faction you're on. I only did it because I don't mind you all getting idea's about my faction and I think that we need to have this set early enough so that most players can see it and send in their actions accordingly.

 

I'm sending in my Action for my lodging right now.

 

Whatever you decide to do, I URGE you to make certain you DO have Lodging. Getting put on the Streets hurts any type of plan we've suggested so far.

 

@Strawman, I was not notified about being on a specific side of the map right now, so I'd assumed we could choose which side we wanted to start on. Other than that, that all sounds fine I think.

 

Edit: In response to The Honor Spren: I'd suggest not revealing your faction in RP. It's possible someone will murder you if you do. If you're a Government Agent, then it's okay to though.

Edited March 12, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Metacognition]

Basic plan:

Step one:

Commanders set up pms with their captains.

Captains use their points to find out a random persons gang membership.

Regulars give their points to the banker.

Step two:

Everyone on the west side go to the lab so we can get points early on.

Bankers should find the alignment of random people.

 

While I don't have a problem with Captains finding out for sure certain members of their gang, it feels like a waste if we're all on board with the plan of each gang meeting up somewhere to start. We shouldn't be wasting points when they could go towards something more useful, like PMs. Of course, they could find out other gangs' affiliation, but that's still not as useful, IMO, unless you're going for the faction win before we find the GAs. 

 

Why are we all working together? It sounds nice in theory, but it seems difficult to really pull off because there's so many things that could go wrong. What if more than one Banker dies before we catch all the Government Agents? What if one gangs Epics all die before we kill the Government Agents? I know we don't have to kill off all the members of our respective rival gangs, but killing any of them gets the win condition closer because it either narrows down who could be an Epic, or it actually gets an Epic. What about Mailliw's clarification? With that being the way it is, don't you think it's gonna be a lot harder to get a group win for every gang?

 

I'm not trying to block your plans Meta. I'm trying to make sure we don't make a mistake and have my faction pay for it. I have no idea if what you are suggesting is because you're genuinely trying to catch the GA's and get all the gangs the win, or trying to get only YOUR gang to win, or you could even be a GA and be suggesting plans that could help you out somehow. I figured my plan would actually help you, considering your propensity to be attacked very early, because you would be in a group with other players and so would be less likely to be killed off immediately. And considering your ability to catch eliminators as often and as early as you have before, keeping you alive for a while sounds like a good way to catch GA's.

 

Your plans sound like they could be good ones, but I thought it would be best to voice my concerns and discuss them rather than just say, "sure, let's do that." A small fear I have is that, much like Wilson feared in LG15b, you realize you'll probably be scanned by a Banker as early as possible if you're alive. Maybe you're suggesting a plan that sounds innocent on the surface, but actually might benefit the GA's in some way. So I'm trying to make sure that's not the case by looking at every angle.

 

What do you think of my plan? I was kinda hoping you'd comment on it more than just "your plan might work out best for eliminators."

 

What's wrong with difficult? Go big or go home, IMO. We can figure out how to make it work after the GAs are dead. At least then, we'll have eliminated one of the threats to us before we start backstabbing. Besides, seems to me that you're really trying to push for the faction war, which seems like a dividing tactic to me. 

 

Granted, as you said, I might just be trying to unify my own gang, but this still helps everyone initially. It lets them save up their points for other things, rather than spending time on figuring out who is in their gang. 

 

As far as your plan goes, it's not bad. It spreads us out and thus makes it easier to pinpoint who made the kill. My problem with it is the same one that happened in LG9. Not everyone will follow it (partially because some people will be inactive) and then the GAs will just kill someone in the streets; giving us no information on where they are anyways. 

 

Also, your plan doesn't protect me in particular, because there's no way to know that the people in the room with me have any form of protection abilities as is and if I'm right about you (and Strawman is inching up on my list as well for trying to get people to waste points), then it might be worthwhile for them to sacrifice one of theirs to get rid of me anyways. I'd rather take my chances with my gang and hope that we have a Bodyguard or Angry Guard among us. 

 

Okay, well, if we're gonna have the gangs meet at certain places, we better get that settled so that most(if not all) of the players can send in their action. I'm still not certain about this plan, but I don't see any huge risks I suppose, and it might give us a good starting point to coordinate things. As far as I can tell, there are 3 places to go: Government Building(gives you an automatic 2 points), Warehouse(chance for 3 or 4 points, but possibly none or losing 3) and the Laboratory(very risky, for 3 points, but if you hardly have any points, you might want to try it). There's also the City Hall, which allows players to steal points from Banks, and have their vote counted twice. I'd say the places that give points are more valuable to the gangs though, but that's just my personal opinion. So, if we're doing this plan, how about this:

 

Blood Tyrants go to the Government Building.

Pearl Districts Neighborhood Watch's goes to the Warehouse.

The Evanescents go to the Laboratory.

 

If anyone has any complaints, you're welcome to change that up, but be warned that it may reveal information about what faction you're on. I only did it because I don't mind you all getting idea's about my faction and I think that we need to have this set early enough so that most players can see it and send in their actions accordingly.

 

I'm sending in my Action for my lodging right now.

 

Whatever you decide to do, I URGE you to make certain you DO have Lodging. Getting put on the Streets hurts any type of plan we've suggested so far.

 

@Strawman, I was not notified about being on a specific side of the map right now, so I'd assumed we could choose which side we wanted to start on. Other than that, that all sounds fine I think.

 

Edit: In response to The Honor Spren: I'd suggest not revealing your faction in RP. It's possible someone will murder you if you do. If you're a Government Agent, then it's okay to though.

 

I was just going to use their headquarters as a starting place, but your way does maximize our efficiency, IMO. The Pearl District would be at a disadvantage if we're working together after all. If they start out stealing points from the rest of the gangs, this all dissolves into chaos. 

 

So, while I'm not removing my vote, I'm okay with this set up. Putting my order in.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Metacognition

[Mark IV]

I'm almost tempted to say-

I'm a Sons of Honour Runner. Regular.

(But I didn't say it. )

Anyways, sorry for my tardiness on coming online. We have exams going on, so I was studying a bit. Just a bit. Not more.

Enough with the pathetic jokes.

I'm sorta inclined to go with meta's plan. But, I get a feeling someone will, in the end, betray the other gangs, and usurp the throne. So, instead, we could apply his strategy until we need to abandon it.

So, we all send out points to the banker, and then what? The banker will just know that he has 'x' number of loyal people. Or, perhaps, not even that. The GAs might just send in their points too. But, the other advantage that has been stated- we get a GA scan every couple of cycles- is good.

So, any other thoughts?

Oh! And also, to those concerned, I might not RP very early on. A few cycles in perhaps...

[STINK]

I'm a Sons of Honour Runner. Regular.

Were you even here for that? O.o

[Mark IV]

I'd just joined, and missed the signups by a day...

[Amanuensis]

So how do PMs work for this game exactly? I've skimmed through the rules a few times and can't seem to find a solid answer.

[TheMightyLopen]

While I don't have a problem with Captains finding out for sure certain members of their gang, it feels like a waste if we're all on board with the plan of each gang meeting up somewhere to start. We shouldn't be wasting points when they could go towards something more useful, like PMs. Of course, they could find out other gangs' affiliation, but that's still not as useful, IMO, unless you're going for the faction win before we find the GAs. 

 

 

What's wrong with difficult? Go big or go home, IMO. We can figure out how to make it work after the GAs are dead. At least then, we'll have eliminated one of the threats to us before we start backstabbing. Besides, seems to me that you're really trying to push for the faction war, which seems like a dividing tactic to me. 

 

Granted, as you said, I might just be trying to unify my own gang, but this still helps everyone initially. It lets them save up their points for other things, rather than spending time on figuring out who is in their gang. 

 

As far as your plan goes, it's not bad. It spreads us out and thus makes it easier to pinpoint who made the kill. My problem with it is the same one that happened in LG9. Not everyone will follow it (partially because some people will be inactive) and then the GAs will just kill someone in the streets; giving us no information on where they are anyways. 

 

Also, your plan doesn't protect me in particular, because there's no way to know that the people in the room with me have any form of protection abilities as is and if I'm right about you (and Strawman is inching up on my list as well for trying to get people to waste points), then it might be worthwhile for them to sacrifice one of theirs to get rid of me anyways. I'd rather take my chances with my gang and hope that we have a Bodyguard or Angry Guard among us. 

 

 

I was just going to use their headquarters as a starting place, but your way does maximize our efficiency, IMO. The Pearl District would be at a disadvantage if we're working together after all. If they start out stealing points from the rest of the gangs, this all dissolves into chaos. 

 

So, while I'm not removing my vote, I'm okay with this set up. Putting my order in.

 

There's 23 players and 3 factions. Once we follow through with this plan, we may know more about how many members each faction has, but if we were going off of averages, there would be 2 factions with 8 players and 1 with 7. That would probably mean that there would be 1 Commander, 2 Captains and 2/3 Regulars for the Captains respectively(making 8 total players). As such, the Captains might know just as much as Commanders or more, so I'd actually suggest that Captains NOT use their points to learn a random member of their own gang(they do not choose who to learn about) because it might just give them a name that they already knew, and that would be a waste of points. I doubt anyone's gonna get to 5 points right now anyways, but that's my opinion as of right now.

 

Okay, rewording then. It seems like it has a low chance of actually happening(everyone being able to win). We can't know who to lynch, or who the Government Agents will kill, and then there is the completely random mechanic of players becoming Epics and gaining powers we won't know about. Don't we need to figure out how to make it work before we kill all the GA's though? Because we need to make sure each team still has a shot at winning once we kill the GA's. I'll try for that win condition, but there are a lot of obstacles. I'm not really trying to divide us here. I'm trying to be a realist and I play to win, and I think everyone else here does too. So I'm gonna be cautious.

 

Yeah, but I'm hoping only the inactives will not follow the plan, and so the GA's will have to either kill an inactive(which is sorta helpful), risk revealing themselves through killing someone in a building or just not kill at all. I think it was sorta effective in LG9 wasn't it? (I can't really remember, it was mostly a speed read to see how that went before I played LG16, which was the 2nd game in Alv's series). Hopefully we can maximize the potential of this plan.

 

As for you specifically, there will be groups of only 3 players. You could be in one of those, given your rep, since that will make it even riskier for an eliminator to attack you. You could even choose who to put with yourself. I'm actually beginning to think that the biggest flaw with this plan is that players will be limited in who they can target with their roles. It could also have a negative effect with Snitches being revealed to be in a specific group through passing notes only to those in their group. Hmm. I guess that would happen anyways though, so I guess it's not too big of a deal. GM's, can Snitches Snitch on a player not in the same building as them? Do they have to give the note to a player in the same building as them? The other scans(Banker scans and scans made using points by other players) aren't affected by buildings I don't think, so that's nice. Overall, I'd still say this plan is worth it, but that is an extra thing to think about.

 

Also, there are Thugs as well, not only Bodyguards and Angry Guards. Just thought I'd point that out. 

 

GM's, how many votes are needed to lynch someone? What happens in the case of a tied lynch?

 

Edit: Every even numbered cycle, each player will be allowed to create and keep 1 PM with a player of their choice.

 

That is a quote from the rules Aman(I know who you are now btw  ). So once next Cycle comes around, we can all make a PM with 1 player and then on the 4th Cycle, we can make another one, allowing us to have 2 PM's if the player we contacted on Cycle 2 is still alive.

Edited March 12, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[STINK]

Well now, Skunk-man could hear some odd discussion in his head (but not through Epic powers, sadly) about going to this place or that place, and now he knew that he couldn't go to the Pub, as no-one actually wanted to get drunk! 

 

There was talk about grouping this or that according to faction, but who actually cared about that? Skunk-man was going to go where Skunk-man decides to go.

[Mark IV]

Well now, Skunk-man could hear some odd discussion in his head (but not through Epic powers, sadly) about going to this place or that place, and now he knew that he couldn't go to the Pub, as no-one actually wanted to get drunk!

There was talk about grouping this or that according to faction, but who actually cared about that? Skunk-man was going to go where Skunk-man decides to go.

Does that mean you're against all plans, Skunk-man? Or just RPing?

EDIT: Just thinking out loud. Let's assume people won't lie for a second, ok? What would happen if we all just announced our factions? I'm guessing that would sorta break the game. Would it really though? In the end, we all will be aware of each-other's factions anyways...

EDIT 2: I'm just asking 'cause I've not yet played a faction based game.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Mark IV

[STINK]

Skunk-man is an independent Skunk-man. Plans? Hahahahahahahahahaha.

[Straw]

I vote for Lopen

[Mark IV]

Thank god that wasn't me. Last time you did that, it got me killed. -__-

[Elbereth]

  

I like Meta's plan. And I'mstill trying to figure out how the game works, so it's the only reason I haven't posted before now.

Are we allowed to say what team we're on in a roleplay post?

 

Probably best not.

 

Why are we all working together? It sounds nice in theory, but it seems difficult to really pull off because there's so many things that could go wrong. What if more than one Banker dies before we catch all the Government Agents? What if one gangs Epics all die before we kill the Government Agents? I know we don't have to kill off all the members of our respective rival gangs, but killing any of them gets the win condition closer because it either narrows down who could be an Epic, or it actually gets an Epic. What about Mailliw's clarification? With that being the way it is, don't you think it's gonna be a lot harder to get a group win for every gang?

 Your questions, in order:

1. Because collaboration is better than competition! (Yay!)

2. So? Seriously. What does that matter, unless they all die?

3. That's a bit more of a problem. I'm guessing we leave one GA alive until we've secured all but two of the Epics (one from each other team), and then kill them all at the same time. That'll be tricky to coordinate.

4. I mean. Exactly as hard as it was before, I think.

 

Does that mean you're against all plans, Skunk-man? Or just RPing?

EDIT: Just thinking out loud. Let's assume people won't lie for a second, ok? What would happen if we all just announced our factions? I'm guessing that would sorta break the game. Would it really though? In the end, we all will be aware of each-other's factions anyways...

EDIT 2: I'm just asking 'cause I've not yet played a faction based game.

We could. That happened in MR10, and it worked out fine. But I vote for not doing that again. I want a faction game where factions are actually secret for once.

[Burnt Spaghetti]

Sienna put her book down. It had taken her most of the day but she had finally finished it. She checked her mobile with a frown. Apparently her group had agreed to meet up at a particular location. That meant she should probably go there. But... what about the next book... oh don't be ridiculous. you'll have time to read it later. important business comes first... and no, unfortunately reading the next book isn't the most important thing you should be doing. She rebuked herself.

With a sigh, she stood up, leaving her quiet and secluded reading spot, and left to go to her designated location.

--

'sup guys.

I've been busy finishing Elantris, hence no post prior to this.

idk what my activity levels will be like as im bouncing between this, lg18 and finishing the mistborn series.

[Mark IV]

This just occurred to me, but won't following meta's plan just bunch everyone together, hence making the eliminators less easy to narrow down upon?

[Kynedath]

Hey guys. I haven't posted here for a while because I'm still a bit salty about LG18. But I'm here now. Then again, I have to leave very soon. So I might not actually be that invested in this game sorry to say.

 

I think that I like Meta's plan. It'll give people other people to trust, other than just their immediate superior. (Looking at you Tony Shark. Still salty about MR10)