Unstoppable Force

When/How does she become an Epic?

19 posts in this topic

At the end of Calamity we are told that Mizzy is an Epic now.

 

She showed me a message she had pulled up from Knighthawk.

 
“Mizzy?” I asked.
 
Megan nodded.
 
“Sparks. I wonder how she’ll take to being an Epic.”
 
Anyone know how this is possible? Calamity is gone, and he was the one that would give people epic powers.  Did I miss something at some point?
 
Was she an Epic all along and had faced her fears right away?  Did she have some power that was hinted at and the general ready just missed?
 
Wasn't she able to use Prof's Gift powers?
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I've edited the title of the thread, please try to keep blatant spoilers for recently released books out of thread titles.

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My crazy theory (look in Part III) is that Calamity's Gifting powers was triggered by his "death", the same way Steelheart's transfersion ability activated and turned Steelheart's skull into steel after he died. Edited by skaa
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Well, in Firefight's reality, Epics were still being born after Invocation left, right? Tavi is an example of this. So clearly the presence of Calamity/Invocation is not necessary in order for new Epics to pop up. I think Calamity set something in motion when he arrived that stayed in place after he left and was able to continue giving people powers.

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Well, in Firefight's reality, Epics were still being born after Invocation left, right? Tavi is an example of this.

 

I'd like to know where you got the info that Tavi was born after Invocation, because I'm pretty sure the book implied otherwise. Tavi was described as a teenager (so, at least thirteen years old) and Invocation has only been gone for a decade according to Firefight. She was probably turned into an Epic at the same time as her father.

 

I think Calamity set something in motion when he arrived that stayed in place after he left and was able to continue giving people powers.

 

Maybe, but I find that unlikely. The second book showed Calamity directly Gifting specific targets (specified by Regalia), so why would he need a separate, independent Gifting system? And why would he even want to keep that system running after he leaves? That would go against his stated goal of using the powers to make humanity destroy itself, since his darkness would no longer exist if he left.

Note: I have a theory that once an Epic fully owns his power, it becomes fully inheritable. So I actually do agree that new Epics could be born after the resident alien eldritch Gifter (e.g. Invocation, Calamity) is defeated. But that obviously doesn't apply to either Tavi or Mizzy, who became Epics after they were born.

Edited by skaa
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I'd like to know where you got the info that Tavi was born after Invocation, because I'm pretty sure the book implied otherwise. Tavi was described as a teenager (so, at least thirteen years old) and Invocation has only been gone for a decade according to Firefight. She was probably turned into an Epic at the same time as her father.

 

 

Maybe, but I find that unlikely. The second book showed Calamity directly Gifting specific targets (specified by Regalia), so why would he need a separate, independent Gifting system? And why would he even want to keep that system running after he leaves? That would go against his stated goal of using the powers to make humanity destroy itself, since his darkness would no longer exist if he left.

Note: I have a theory that once an Epic fully owns his power, it becomes fully inheritable. So I actually do agree that new Epics could be born after the resident alien eldritch Gifter (e.g. Invocation, Calamity) is defeated. But that obviously doesn't apply to either Tavi or Mizzy, who became Epics after they were born.

 

After reading your post, I realized that you are right; I made an assumption that I shouldn't have about where Tavi got her powers. You make some very good points. As you said, Mizzy could still be evidence in favor of new Epics popping up spontaneously (not through inheritance) without either Calamity or Invocation being around, but I guess we'll have to wait for more info to get an explanation of why and how.

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Who's powers will David and Megan's kids have?

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Who's powers will David and Megan's kids have?

Oh man, what if they got both? High Epics would have someone to look up to (or look out for) then.

jW

Edited by Jondesu
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Who's powers will David and Megan's kids have?

Who says they'll have kids?
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The itty bitty piece of me that is a Shipward. Then the Theoryweaver takes over and worries about other stuff.

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Who says they'll have kids?

 

Based on Megan's expressed desires for a normal life, I think we can reasonably expect that she would want to have kids as part of that.

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If Tavi got her powers at the same time as her father, she would have been a three-year old  Epic.

 

That seems very unlikely to me.

 

It is indeed possible that once Invocation/Calamity leaves, the power they are using becomes a more generic force that gifts people their powers. Maybe the aliens are not inherently powerful, they just get given a force for this task, and they are supposed to leave the force behind with them to work its power.

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My guess is Tavi got her powers at puberty from Prof dying or something because an infant or young child with Prof's powers probably would have killed everyone near by accident

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The way I see it, Calamity wasn't the embodiment of Epic powers but something like a guiding force to them. He could give them to people and take them away, and was always connected to them, but wasn't in total control of them. That's why he couldn't take Megan's away from her or force Steelheart's on David. Likewise, the powers didn't vanish when Calamity did, but without him some of the rules changed.

 

So following on from that, Tavi can inherit Prof's powers because Invocation left, removing the restriction on that. We already know that DNA is a factor in how powers work even under Calamity - neither the powers themselves nor Calamity can distinguish between two sources of exactly the same DNA, to the extent that all you need is some of their living cells to access those powers.

 

The child of an Epic has 50% of their DNA, which makes inheriting the genetic component of Epic powers entirely possible, but perhaps Calamity was able to distinguish between children and parents and shut down the powers in children, even if they inherited whatever gene carried that Epic potential.

 

We even have two examples, since both Tavi and David had the same powerset as their Epic parent. It makes me think that the powers one can potentially possess are determined by genetics before Calamity ever gets involved.

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On 2/29/2016 at 5:15 PM, Unstoppable Force said:

At the end of Calamity we are told that Mizzy is an Epic now.

She showed me a message she had pulled up from Knighthawk.

“Mizzy?” I asked.
 
Megan nodded.
 
“Sparks. I wonder how she’ll take to being an Epic.”
 
Anyone know how this is possible? Calamity is gone, and he was the one that would give people epic powers.  Did I miss something at some point?
 
Was she an Epic all along and had faced her fears right away?  Did she have some power that was hinted at and the general ready just missed?
 
Wasn't she able to use Prof's Gift powers?

I just finished Calamity two days ago. I had this exact same question at the end of the book. I read the thread but not sure i feel satisfied with anyone's theories. I thought i remember reading, in either Steelheart or Firefight, that newly created epics were extremely rare. I think most became epics once Calamity appeared and i thought i remember it was like 5 a year or something like that. So if they are rare it would seem odd that all of a sudden Mizzy becomes an epic unless it is tied to something, which i guess could be what some suggest in relation to Calamity. But i didn't recall seeing anything that Calamity did that would trigger this in her. Hopefully someone can shed more light on this.. 

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Maybe at the end of the book Larcener had a store of powers left to give out, so he gave away what he had left before he went away. 

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On 01/03/2016 at 8:22 AM, skaa said:

Maybe, but I find that unlikely. The second book showed Calamity directly Gifting specific targets (specified by Regalia), so why would he need a separate, independent Gifting system? And why would he even want to keep that system running after he leaves? That would go against his stated goal of using the powers to make humanity destroy itself, since his darkness would no longer exist if he left.

Calamity was not using the darkness to destroy humanity. He was only gifting the powers (directly or automatically I am not sure) to the humans and watching them destroy themselves. He believed that the darkness was just the way humanity was. It took David proving him him otherwise (that he was indeed the cause of the darkness) to make him leave.

Whether or not he leaves a system in place that create epics after this revelation, this would not be about his goal of destroying humanity anymore.

Edited by Mace
TYpos
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On 1/26/2017 at 11:23 PM, Mace said:

Calamity was not using the darkness to destroy humanity. He was only gifting the powers (directly or automatically I am not sure) to the humans and watching them destroy themselves. He believed that the darkness was just the way humanity was. It took David proving him him otherwise (that he was indeed the cause of the darkness) to make him leave.

Whether or not he leaves a system in place that create epics after this revelation, this would not be about his goal of destroying humanity anymore.

 

I will have to disagree. I believe that Calamity knew exactly what the darkness was, and that he vehemently denied its existence in the past exactly because of its nature. Let's take a look at the scene where you apparently think Calamity realized that he was the cause of the darkness, the scene where he disappeared:

Quote

 

"Did you know what made the difference?" I demanded of him. "The reason our powers separated from yours? [...] It wasn't only confronting the fears..."

"...it was pushing through them," Calamity whispered, looking from me to the others, "to save someone."

"Do you fear that?" I asked him softly[...]

He stared at me, then collapsed, curling up on the glass floor[...] and then--just like that, he faded away.

 

Notice how Calamity's words were not one of realization (as his conclusion did not necessarily follow from anything David told him) but of admission. I believe this is a sort of confession that he knew exactly what's been going on all along, but had refused to acknowledge any of it previously mainly because of his fears (as David had guessed). Calamity was a self-deceiving liar, but to assume that he was ignorant of how his powers worked is, I think, quite silly given the kind of being he is and what kind of author Brandon Sanderson is.

Brandon isn't the type who makes ignorant big bads. If you look at his stories, the thing that defeats the main villain is almost always NOT some heretofore unknown aspect of magic, but the villain's own hubris. In fact, most of his main villains have been immensely knowledgeable about their world's magic system (with only a couple of exceptions that I can think of), and knew exactly what defeated them. So, yeah, I am of the belief that Calamity knew of his responsibility for the darkness, at least deep down.

Feel free to read this theory post of mine (particularly Part II) that discusses the connection between the darkness and Calamity's fear, among other things.

P.S.

Other things I disagree with:

  • You assume that Calamity "left", as if he simply gave up and chose to return to his world. If so, why did he collapse before doing that? I think my theory (which I discuss in the preface of the same post I linked to)--that he has a weakness just like every other Epic, and that David successfully triggered that weakness (as he has done countless times against other Epics) and effectively removed the powers responsible for Calamity's very presence in David's core possibility-- makes a lot more sense.
     
  • You say you're not sure if Calamity had been Gifting powers directly. Please re-read Firefight, specifically the scene where Calamity speaks directly in David's mind shortly after what looks like a direct Gifting attempt by Calamity as requested by Regalia.

Sorry if I seem a bit... argumentative. It's just that you seemed to ignore the main point in my old post above (that there is no reason for Calamity to deliberately set up an auto-Gifting mechanism for when he leaves) just to nitpick on that one sentence. So you could imagine how defensive I felt. No offense meant.

Edited by skaa
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