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CONFIRMATION - The Weapon that killed Adonalsium no longer exists


imriel452

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@ethan_sedai the problem here is that there isn't really anything in what you've said that points to Preservation knowing anything special about the weapon, just his weapon-- the atium cache. You basically just have a bunch of tangentially related stuff that isn't all accurate in the first place.

The reason the Atium cache was important was because if Ruin reacquired the power of that atium, it would give him just enough of an edge over the power of Preservation that Vin's sacrifice wouldn't have quite killed him. P called it a weapon, but it was more like defanging Ruin.

The ratio of Atium mistings was definitely 1/16. 1/16 of people were snapped (ie mistfallen), and 1/16 of those were atium mistings. Those other metals you mentioned don't matter because they either actually weren't part of the system right then (Sazed played with it a bit), or there was no real access to the metal so pretty much only Vin knew about it.

And finally, I see absolutely zero evidence that individual metals point to a specific Shard. That atium/malatium were removed from being in the 16 to having chromium/bendalloy added is plenty of counter evidence. (someone more familiar with how that happened? I'm not 100% on that being true)

Cool idea though. Keep up that kind of thought and you'll blow minds sooner or later.

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22 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

@ethan_sedai

The reason the Atium cache was important was because if Ruin reacquired the power of that atium, it would give him just enough of an edge over the power of Preservation that Vin's sacrifice wouldn't have quite killed him. P called it a weapon, but it was more like defanging Ruin.

This, the whole Preservation's Plan was based on Ruin's inability to overcome Preservation's successor (Vin).

22 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

@ethan_sedai 

The ratio of Atium mistings was definitely 1/16. 1/16 of people were snapped (ie mistfallen), and 1/16 of those were atium mistings. Those other metals you mentioned don't matter because they either actually weren't part of the system right then (Sazed played with it a bit), or there was no real access to the metal so pretty much only Vin knew about it.

And finally, I see absolutely zero evidence that individual metals point to a specific Shard. That atium/malatium were removed from being in the 16 to having chromium/bendalloy added is plenty of counter evidence. (someone more familiar with how that happened? I'm not 100% on that being true)

This is a bit unprecise but It's not really relevant for the topic.

Anyway the 16 metals we see in Era2 are the rightful and original Metallic Arts' Metals and by the way there were pulsers, sliders, leechers and Nicrobursters in Era1 too...Simply without the knowledge of the metal and the chance of having some, they Will never discovered (like an Alluminium or Durallumin gnat).

For Need, Preservation twisted the Snapping to allow peoples to snap as Seer or Malatium Misting and to keep the "sign of 16" he made the MistSnap not able to make Pulsers/Sliders but only Atium/Malatium Mistings.

After his Ascension Sazed Simply removed the Preservation's twist and putted some of his own like the lower Snapping's threeshold.

On the 16 metals as "correlation 1 to 1 for metal- shard", It's an already proposed theory (I believe @Stormgate made It) but I and others could not find ant kind of pattern in this.

Ps: As the whole "Preservation burried the Weapon" is carried by tangential links and Speculation.

Why did Ruin not use It to dispose of Leras First or Vin later? We know his dreamed endgame was terribly slowed down from Fuzz's effort (by the way I use to call Fuzz the Preservation's mental-unstable and Power limited form and "Preservation" his former good shape.

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On 29.09.2017 at 8:43 AM, Djarskublar said:

The ratio of Atium mistings was definitely 1/16. 1/16 of people were snapped (ie mistfallen), and 1/16 of those were atium mistings.

Actually mistsnapped were 16% of people that went out into the mists (16% is not the same as 1/16) and of those 16% 1/16 is mistfallen (atium Mistings).

All in all 1% of people who have gone out into the mists were Snapped to be atium Mistings.

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On 10/1/2017 at 0:58 PM, Overstorm said:

Actually mistsnapped were 16% of people that went out into the mists (16% is not the same as 1/16) and of those 16% 1/16 is mistfallen (atium Mistings).

All in all 1% of people who have gone out into the mists were Snapped to be atium Mistings.

Ach that's right... Now I feel silly >.>

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22 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

Ach that's right... Now I feel silly >.>

Don't feel too bad, I thought they had been sick 16 days, and that was the "16 Clue" (they were sick longer than normal, so it seemed reasonable)


Edit: Apparently, I was right about that. Gosh, Preservation got pretty obsessed near the end.

Quote

Noorden, Elend's scribe, discovers that exactly 16 percent of any group of people that fall to the mists become sick, whether they be villagers, soldiers, etc.[2] Sixteen matched the (known) number of allomantic metals -- the exact percentage was a clue from Preservation that those who were struck (and were thereby snapped) were mistings.

Some of the soldiers "attacked" by the mists in Elend's army were sick for two weeks[3] (sixteen days[4]) rather than a few days. They were also exactly 1/16th of the number of total men in the army that were struck.

Wait, Scadrian weeks are 8 days? When did we learn this?

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On 3.10.2017 at 9:31 PM, The One Who Connects said:

Wait, Scadrian weeks are 8 days? When did we learn this?

In Chapter 40 Demoux says he's been sick for two weeks. This was after they found out that the number of days is 16 but it was not out of place for him to say just two weeks.

In chapter 47 Elend in his internal monologue even says "The men who, like Demoux, had lain sick from the mists for weeks, instead of a single day".

So the information in coppermind goes like "people were sick for three months (96 days)..." since in one place it was said three months and later clarified to be 96 days, but it does not mean a month is 32 days. Does that make sense?

Edited by Overstorm
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On 9/8/2017 at 5:50 PM, ethan_sedai said:

I think I know who knows, or rather, knew, where the remains of the weapon is: Preservation!

in secret history, Preservation says 

"I needed a sign. Something he couldn't change. A sign of the weapon I'd buried. The boiling point of water, I think. Maybe it's freezing point? But what if the units change over the years? I needed something that would be remembered always. Something they'll immediately recognize. Sixteen."

a sign of the weapon, and sixteen, being one of those signs, and how many Shards it split Adonalsium into, is too much of a coincidence.

But wasn't his weapon atium? It was his "weapon," seeing as keeping it hidden prevented Ruin from accessing his full power. He had "buried" it because it was in a hole in the ground with Kandra guarding it. However, I do agree that Preservation, and perhaps Harmony, who now holds the power of preservation, would know what happened to it. I think that if we wish to find out how Adonalsium was shattered and what happened to the weapon, we should look at how Shards are shattered. Although there's not too much known about that either.

Whoops. Didn't realize there were two other pages to this discussion. *facepalm*

Edited by Krypton Savant
Didn't realize there were two other pages to this discussion
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On 9/29/2017 at 11:05 PM, Yata said:

Why did Ruin not use It to dispose of Leras First or Vin later? We know his dreamed endgame was terribly slowed down from Fuzz's effort (by the way I use to call Fuzz the Preservation's mental-unstable and Power limited form and "Preservation" his former good shape.

Where I think he buried it was at the center of Scadrial, because it would be hard for even a Shard to get to it, because of all that Metal in the planet's core. 

Also, again, I say that the calling atium being a weapon is like calling a tripwire, or a trap a weapon, as it isn't used to directly harm an opponent, it is just used to prevent them from using their full power in a fight. A fist is a weapon. A sword is a weapon. A trap is not a weapon, especially if it is just something to prevent them from using an advantage, not something that harms them. If you are still confused, picture someone laying a tripwire somewhere, and saying "I set up the weapon! Now it'll be a fair fight!" instead of saying "I set up the trap! now it'll be a fair fight."

And the 1/16 of the atium and all of that, it wasn't sixteen at first, so sixteen wasn't a sign of the atium before he changed it to make it so, and why would he change it to sixteen in order to make sixteen a sign of the atium, so that he could use it? If he did that, there had to be another reason, some other source, and I think that this source is The Weapon that killed Adonalsium.

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1 hour ago, ethan_sedai said:

Where I think he buried it was at the center of Scadrial, because it would be hard for even a Shard to get to it, because of all that Metal in the planet's core. 

Without any kind of reference? 

1 hour ago, ethan_sedai said:

Also, again, I say that the calling atium being a weapon is like calling a tripwire, or a trap a weapon, as it isn't used to directly harm an opponent, it is just used to prevent them from using their full power in a fight. A fist is a weapon. A sword is a weapon. A trap is not a weapon, especially if it is just something to prevent them from using an advantage, not something that harms them. If you are still confused, picture someone laying a tripwire somewhere, and saying "I set up the weapon! Now it'll be a fair fight!" instead of saying "I set up the trap! now it'll be a fair fight."

This is Just semantic, a trap is a weapon and much more you could see how the seeds Preservation planted, lead After thousands of years to the end of Ruin. Remind also that Fuzz didn't remember his own Plan's details (for example he didn't know of Sazed's Ascension)...so use his semantic as proof of something is a sterile argument.

Vin+Atium+Seers (tangential) were together a weapon to kill Ruin.

 

1 hour ago, ethan_sedai said:

 

And the 1/16 of the atium and all of that, it wasn't sixteen at first, so sixteen wasn't a sign of the atium before he changed it to make it so, and why would he change it to sixteen in order to make sixteen a sign of the atium, so that he could use it? If he did that, there had to be another reason, some other source, and I think that this source is The Weapon that killed Adonalsium.

I am not sure to follow you here.

Preservation choose a Sign that would ne Beyond the men's ability to change.

The 16 arose naturally in the Metallic Arts... He made some trick to integrate his Need into the existing Framework (replacing unobtainable metals with Atium and Malatium). But the 16 based Magic was still there before.

For people with a decent amount of Information, the 16% Hidden in the Mists Will be a Red earring. You Will link It fast to the Metallic Arts (something Elend did ad Soon his provided with the Yomen's knowledge) and a single Person to make this kind of link in the world is enough...or One of the Mist-affected that show Allomancy's talent is the same.

Notice that while Preservation anticipated also TLR's reign and his censure job, he also influenced TLR into adopting the 16 into his religion(see again Yomen's doctrine).

For Fuzz's prospective TLR'S actions were an incident but he already setted the whole stuff in motion thousand of years ago and he was no more able to undo this (also his strong Faith in Preservation's Plan stopped him from messing around).

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ok, I think I see what you are saying: that because Atium is still an allomanitc metal, and therefore related to allomancy, still is related to sixteen? makes sense.

and that it being at the center just guesswork, that is true, I did guess, but it was an educated guess: Preservation knew that metal made things hard to see for shards, (he hid the atium in the kandra homeland, because there was a lot of metal in the soil and rock in the surrounding area) and there is a lot more metal at the core of a planet than there was around the kandra homeland, so it would be a very good hiding place, so where better to put a weapon of mass destruction, so that it would remain hidden, and not be used, which is just what Preservation wants, to keep anyone from ruining anything with it. (Still mostly guesswork, but it had some logic behind it.)

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  • 1 month later...

Wait... atium being related to sixteen? Nah, the sixteen is just the sixteen of Preservation, because Preservation was the sixteenth shard. Atium is of Ruin, who is... the first shard? Something like that.

I dunno. Something about the weapon still existing at the center of Scadrial just... doesn't go well with my stomach (and let me tell you, nearly everything goes well with my stomach). I can't see any solid reason yet to believe this theory is incorrect, but this involves soooooo much guesswork. The farther you try and see into the future the worse the prediction goes.

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Hi this is my first post.

Recently (at the oathbringer tour) Brandon RAFO’d this, why would he RAFO this if he had confirmed it?

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So, in Secret History, Fuzz mentions a weapon that he buried? Is that the atium, or is that something else?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

*hums* Go ahead Joel. *Joel holds up RAFO sign*

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On 12/3/2017 at 9:32 AM, Pcheinze said:

Hi this is my first post.

Recently (at the oathbringer tour) Brandon RAFO’d this, why would he RAFO this if he had confirmed it?

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So, in Secret History, Fuzz mentions a weapon that he buried? Is that the atium, or is that something else?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

*hums* Go ahead Joel. *Joel holds up RAFO sign*

that was me, actually! I just forgot the exact wording of my question, and his exact reaction, so I didn't want to post it in case I got it wrong. glad someone was paying more attention than I was. it seems pretty accurate though, from what I remember.

also, I agree, why would he RAFO it if it was just the Atium? if it was, I think he would have just said "yes, that is the Atium."  the biggest reason I think that was that I was going to be the last person in the crowd to ask a question, and he seemed to feel a little bad about the last question someone asked being a RAFO, so he let another person ask a question after me. If it was the Atium, he would have answered, and wouldn't have needed to let another person ask a question, so it was probably closer to a "I'm not going to tell you right now, because I'll reveal that later" RAFO than a "go look it up" RAFO.

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Brandon does sometimes explicitly give RAFOs just to mess with us in some way. Here's one from another Oathbringer signing.

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

My friend has a theory: The Lord Ruler is the one that Shattered the Shattered Plains. Is that a possibility?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

I won't discount it out of hand. Mostly just so that he can keep arguing with you guys.

This too would be a pretty simple question to simply answer 'Nope, next question please' but he didn't. Even though he has said that while Rashek knows about other worlds from his time using the Well of Ascension's power, he didn't know specifics, implying that it's vanishingly unlikely that the man ever worldhopped. And the Plains were believed to have shattered during Aharietiam, which assuming that's true puts the event a good three thousand or so years before Rashek was even born.

Given that Brandon is aware of how fans have latched onto various Adonalsium-related theories, it's entirely possible he guessed the intention behind that question and just answered with a RAFO to give us yet more fuel for arguing ourselves in circles. xD

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On 12/5/2017 at 3:50 PM, Weltall said:

Brandon does sometimes explicitly give RAFOs just to mess with us in some way. Here's one from another Oathbringer signing.

This too would be a pretty simple question to simply answer 'Nope, next question please' but he didn't. Even though he has said that while Rashek knows about other worlds from his time using the Well of Ascension's power, he didn't know specifics, implying that it's vanishingly unlikely that the man ever worldhopped. And the Plains were believed to have shattered during Aharietiam, which assuming that's true puts the event a good three thousand or so years before Rashek was even born.

Given that Brandon is aware of how fans have latched onto various Adonalsium-related theories, it's entirely possible he guessed the intention behind that question and just answered with a RAFO to give us yet more fuel for arguing ourselves in circles. xD

yes, I know it wasn't a "next question please" because mine was going to be the last question, but he didn't want the last question to be a RAFO, so he let another person ask a question.

although, I can see him giving RAFOs just to mess with us. i might have to try again later, and rephrase it so that it isn't as obvious what I'm after.

Edit: it also might have just been him not wanting to spoil anything for anyone.

Edited by ookla the aes sedai
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