Wayne Disapproval Thread (Potential Wayne-related spoilers)

[aeromancer]

Has the effect worn off? Do you feel that Wayne currently adds nothing legitimate to any book, and is, in fact getting in everyone's way? Do you feel that maybe Wayne is just living up to his name, just waning from the goodness he was in Alloy of Law to a mere repetitive, one-dimensional character?

If not, please don't down-vote me. This is America, I hide beneath the First Amendment, and an army of flame shields. Also, um, kindly stay off the thread so only like-minded people can post? Please?

 

If you do agree with me, join the Wayne Hater thread, and espouse your favorite reasons why you think Wayne should've lost all his goldminds, and be far and teathered off a cliff. Remember, this is the Bands of Mourning thread, so all's fair to spoil.

 

My personal favorite: Wayne, you horrible excuse for a human being. You crashed the wedding of a man who saved your life more times than you can count on your fingers (including regrown ones) with a water tower. There's no excuse for that.

 

Incidentally, petty thievery is a crime. Thievery against your bet friend is also a crime. Just saying.

 

If you are going to say you like Wayne, and rain on my parade (like Wayne himself might), then please for my sanity post a legitimate reason.

"I like Wayne." and "He's funny. Ooh, shiny." does not qualify.

Edited March 9, 2016 by aeromancer

[Citadel16]

Have you finished bands of mourning?

[Shardmancer]

Completely Disagree,

 

Not only is Wayne crucial to the plot he sees things differently from most characters which is a huge benefit. Brandson has also said if he could hang out with one character it would be Wayne (so ++ points) Just check your pockets before you leave!

[King's Twit]

A character doesn't have to be a good person to be a good character or even a likable character. Case in point, Tyrion Lannister is a horrible human being, and yet is one of the most popular characters in both A Song of Ice and Fire and the Game of Thrones HBO series.

 

I wouldn't want to be friends with Wayne in real life, but in the context of a fictional story, most of the bad things he does (thievery and other petty crimes) are harmless, and so aren't as big of detractors as they would be for a person committing the acts in real life. To me, he can be an amusing and often empathetic character, and so I support his continued presence as a main character in this series.

 

I agree with you about the water tower, though; that one I still can't really forgive.

[tobar14]

I still think Wayne has a decent amount of depth and more to him than we know. I'm certain Sanderson could write a book with him as the main character and I would enjoy it.

 

I did find that on my second read of Stormlight 1 & 2, Rock annoyed the crap out of me.  In my opinion, he is a one dimensional character, who serverd a purpose in the beginning, but not really anymore.

[Shardmancer]

Good Point Tobar - I felt the same way about Rock - as he is completely one sided and Wayne shows a lot of depth

[aeromancer]

@warriormarrk - Yes, I've read it, that's why I'm tired of him.

 

@the rest: You have the rest of the 17th shard to like Wayne as a character. This just my little haven of anti-Wayne.

[natc]

I was under the impression that he paid the guys to do something about the wedding and didn't expect them to try something so overkill.

Though why even bother? That was kinda lame anyway, man. Points off.

Wayne might be a terrible person but he's still hilarious to watc- um, read.

[Asperity]

Wayne is easily my favorite Cosmeric character that Brandon has ever written thus far and I honestly don't see him ever being topped.

 

People are not perfect and people have flaws.

[aeromancer]

Stop posting if you like Wayne, please. This topic is not for you! I know I'm in the minority, I just don't like the man, and want to stop feeling alon in my not liking of him!

[Angsos]

I haven't finished yet but wayne did get a little irritating in this book so far. He's still hilarious but did wane a bit. Like others, I wouldn't want to know him but he's a pretty funny character. He's like Rocket in Guardians of the Galaxy, pretty funny character, not the nicest person

[Plastic Misting]

I think his chapter early in the book could've been a bit shorter without us missing out on anything.
And him getting over Ranette felt a bit out of place to me. There was no real build-up and it just kinda happened. And it didn't effect the main plot either.

[DreamEternal]

I find Wayne annoying, dislike his strong(for Brandon's books) language(and I've heard much stronger language in real life, so don't come saying I dislike it because I am not as worldly as you Wayne lovers), consider his humor tiring, and think he has been getting less interesting as the books go on.

But he can be fun sometimes, is very unusual in a partialy good way, provides a balance for Wax's more brutal and direct Roughs' lawkeeping and Marasi's insecurity, and is still interesting enough to be worth keeping as a PoV character. I just think a few aspects of him should be toned down.

Unlike Melaan, whom I find completely uninteresting, boring and flat compared to other characters. Which is quite bad, since in SoS she made a relatively good first impression. But then, VenDell looked like a very interesting character I would read more about, so my opinions are bound to be strange.

Edited February 18, 2016 by DreamEternal

[Jazzy Kandra]

Unlike Melaan, whom I find completely uninteresting, boring and flat compared to other characters. Which is quite bad, since in SoS she made a relatively good first impression. But then, VenDell looked like a very interesting character I would read more about, so my opinions are bound to be strange.

I like MeLaan, but I feel she was cut short by the book. She has only one POV scene, and I think a lack of POV really cuts down on any depth that a character might have, same with Rock. Get inside a character's head, suddenly they're a ton more...real, or should be. Wax, Wayne, Marasi, and Steris all have more scenes from their POV, and I think that given she is part of the 'five man band' of the trilogy proper, she should have some more than she has gotten. In other words, I think she was...or we were...sold a bit short, in this respect.

ANYWAY, while I don't detest Wayne, I found his actions somewhat...I was more disgusted with him in this book, more or less because he was being a total jerk to Wax and Steris. I mean, when he hired those guys, he did do so with the expressed desire to ruin Wax's wedding (even if he never planned to crash it with a water tower), and he later makes some jokes at Wax's expense that I thought went too far (the fat jokes, mainly). How he treats Steris is also despicable (but completely in character), I hope she saves his life in the next book just so he can feel really bad about it.

I think though, and I might be wrong, it's not a problem with characterization. He's a three-dimensional character who is ALSO a jerk, and sometimes that jerkiness is not funny or something that we should easily forgive (just because it's Wayne). He needs to grow up (more than he does in this book, and I think moving away from Ranette was actually a really mature thing for Wayne to do), like seriously, he can still be the same hat-loving, thieving, disguise loving idiot, but he's in desperate need of some character growth too.

[lDanielHolm]

Stop posting if you like Wayne, please. This topic is not for you! I know I'm in the minority, I just don't like the man, and want to stop feeling alon in my not liking of him!

 

Just as you are free to post that you hate him, we are equally free to defend him. If you don't like it, tough.

 

Really don't feel like going along with an echo-chamber just because you want one.

Edited February 21, 2016 by lDanielHolm

[Meg]

I would not say I hate Wayne but he surely isn't my favorite character.

I have to admit that I kind of refused reading Alloy of Law for a long time though I had the book. This partially because of the "Wayne hype" I saw in some threads. When I finally started with AoL I was instantly caught by Steris. And one of the first things I got to read from Wayne was him calling Steris insane.

Hence he had a bad bad start with me.

Now, three books later I just feel mostly indifferent in regard to him, though -- no, because -- he himself has a lot of flaws, I still loathe his early comment about Steris.

I might have been biased against him because everybody else seems to love him.

[aeromancer]

Just as you are free to post that you hate him, we are equally free to defend him. If you don't like it, tough.

 

Really don't feel like going along with an echo-chamber just because you want one.

Yes that is correct. I started a thread saying "Let's discuss Wayne a a character, I don't like him. Please, disagree with me. In fact, post a comment not even saying something positive about him, just your personal preference about whether or not you are willing to be an 'echo-chamber'."

I am aware there is this wondrous technology called internet. You know this because I'm posting a reply. I know there is also this thing called "Freedom of Speech." You know this because I'm posting a reply. However, one may think that upon seeing the many, many, many threads and post discussing the (in my humble opinion, so-called) brilliance of Wayne, that the aeromancer could start up just one thread, asking like-minded people to join him for a civil discussion about why precisely they don't like him as a character. I did not say he wasn't written well, he's written brilliantly. I did call him one-dimensional, but after some posts that partially agreed with me and made valid points on his character, I am willing to retract that. I understand now, thanks to you, lDanielHolm that such behavior is frowned upon, and is fact is wrong. I offer you my sincere apologies, and will, in fact, upvote you after I post this.

Thank you so much.

Edited February 22, 2016 by aeromancer

[Zathoth]

You people have to realize something. Wayne didnt crash the wedding because he's a jerk, Wayne crashed the wedding because his best friend was about to marry a crazy woman. Im sure at least half of you would have done the same thing.

 

The fact that he is wrong about Steris doesnt change anything, from his perspective his actions make perfect sense.

 

I am the founder of The Church of Wayne so I am sure my opinion about him is obvious.

[Chaos]

I neither agree nor disagree with your main thrust. In fact, I tend to think that the Wayne POV near the start of Bands is just him being too silly and it went on too long. It detracted from the book, in my opinion, and could have been cut in half and fine. I generally like Wayne just fine. I know Brandon is very fond of Wayne and I am going to be honest, I do think that early Wayne scene is not good and it was a darling he needed to cut. But he liked it, so eh.

I am aware there is this wondrous technology called internet. You know this because I'm posting a reply. I know there is also this thing called "Freedom of Speech."

However, aside from your main thrust about Wayne, I must comment on this statement. Freedom of speech is very specific thing (in the United States) regarding government censorship. This absolutely does not apply on this forum, or basically any internet discussion ever because they are privately owned entities. Unless the government is censoring it, then freedom of speech is not a defense that can be made. It is not relevant and is a perversion of that idea. Private entities have a lot of freedom in what content they allow or not allow on their sites, their buildings, etc.

I am not commenting or making judgment calls about this thread. (Your last post was reasonable, but the original post is harsh) But it is a pet peeve of mine is people who make an unpopular opinion and cite freedom of speech. People totally get to not like an opinion.

Additionally though I see that you want to make this Wayne haven, as I said, you don't really "own" anything here, so that attitude rubs me the wrong way. People can comment if they so choose.

Not that I'm taking down the thread or anything. It's fine.

For 17th Shard, we wouldn't censor something unless it was really offensive or in other specific circumstances. (For example, we hid topics regarding the existence of Secret History as that was an extension of Brandon's will.) Opposing viewpoints are of course welcome. Viewpoints that are respectful are always productive.

So, I would say that people could comment, but if they like Wayne, they should be respectful of your opinion. If they don't like Wayne, then great, you have support here! Most I imagine will be in the middle.

Anyway, I'm going to stop blabbing, but now we learned something about freedom of speech, so yay!

[Meg]

You people have to realize something. Wayne didnt crash the wedding because he's a jerk, Wayne crashed the wedding because his best friend was about to marry a crazy woman. Im sure at least half of you would have done the same thing.

 

The fact that he is wrong about Steris doesnt change anything, from his perspective his actions make perfect sense.

 

I am the founder of The Church of Wayne so I am sure my opinion about him is obvious.

 

It is exactly this: "a crazy woman" what makes me like Wayne less. That might be obvious from my first post in this thread.

 

He himself being "crazy" (if one wants to put having some issues that way -- I myself don't approve of such terms) IMHO makes him even less capable of judghing others' "crazyness".

 

 

However, aside from your main thrust about Wayne, I must comment on this statement. Freedom of speech is very specific thing (in the United States) regarding government censorship. This absolutely does not apply on this forum, or basically any internet discussion ever because they are privately owned entities. Unless the government is censoring it, then freedom of speech is not a defense that can be made. It is not relevant and is a perversion of that idea. Private entities have a lot of freedom in what content they allow or not allow on their sites, their buildings, etc.

 

 

Funnily that term ("freedom of speech") struck me in Aeromancer's post. Throwing in fundamental rights in a discussion about a fictional character is way off on such forums. Also, one shall not forget, each fundamental right has its limits!

[Zathoth]

It is exactly this: "a crazy woman" what makes me like Wayne less. That might be obvious from my first post in this thread.

 

He himself being "crazy" (if one wants to put having some issues that way -- I myself don't approve of such terms) IMHO makes him even less capable of judghing others' "crazyness".

Doesnt matter. If your best friend is about to make a really, really stupid choice you stop them from doing it. Especially if it is a marriage that is only going to make them miserable.

 

But yes, Wayne is wrong about Steris. Very wrong. Doesnt matter, his actions still makes sense.

[Voidus]

His actions make sense to him but that doesn't make them good or justifiable actions. Everyone always thinks their actions are justifiable that's not an excuse.
As was pointed out Wayne himself is hardly a milestone of sanity so his ability to judge it in other is compromised. Though admittedly I will state that he is actually completely right, Steris is insane, just in an awesome and adorable way that shouldn't prevent anyone from marrying her.

[Pechvarry]

As much as I think Wayne is funny, it did feel at times like he has gone over-the-top and crossed into being a caricature instead of a character. 

 

Do I feel like he ruined the book or anything?  No.  But it doesn't sit well with me that he told Steris "You disgust me" and has never a) apologized or  caught flak from Wax for it.

 

Sidenote: This is the first thread I've ever downvoted people who weren't obvious trolls/spammers.  

 

If this thread were a forum game, you guys would be fine with following along with the OP.  But you can't honor this person enough to grant the very simple request of the OP?  Just because you happen to disagree with him?! Yes, you can post contrary and ruin his thread.  I could also start ruining your forum games and posting in RP threads I'm not a part of.  

 

But I don't, because I'm not a storming tool.  Consider it, let him have his fun, and if you really need to, make a "Wayne appreciation thread."

Edited February 23, 2016 by Pechvarry

[kacman07]

I think Wayne also thought it's what Wax wanted i his own crazy way. He saw it as Wax just following his duty to be with Steris, and not something Wax actually wanted to do. When Wax tells him "Enough" at the end I think he actually understands that his friend wants to be with Steris, and he's going to stop for his sake. He's incredibly misguided, but I think half of what he does can be justified as genuinely doing what he thinks is best for Wax.

[Voidus]

As much as I think Wayne is funny, it did feel at times like he has gone over-the-top and crossed into being a caricature instead of a character. 

 

Do I feel like he ruined the book or anything?  No.  But it doesn't sit well with me that he told Steris "You disgust me" and has never a) apologized or caught flak from Wax for it.

 

Sidenote: This is the first thread I've ever downvoted people who weren't obvious trolls/spammers.  

 

If this thread were a forum game, you guys would be fine with following along with the OP.  But you can't honor this person enough to grant the very simple request of the OP?  Just because you happen to disagree with him?! Yes, you can post contrary and ruin his thread.  I could also start ruining your forum games and posting in RP threads I'm not a part of.  

 

But I don't, because I'm not a storming tool.  Consider it, let him have his fun, and if you really need to, make a "Wayne appreciation thread."

There's a difference between disagreeing and off-topic posting. You can post in an RP thread if you're actually RPing.