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[Calamity spoilers] Calamity reactions thread


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I think it was earned, because David used Calamity's own ego against him. He convinced him of the truth using his own "mastery" of his powers.

 

"You are the master of your power right? Then you know exactly how this Dimension Hopping works. You know this dimension is real. You know this is one where you left. And you know that not all epics are evil here. And you know that's because you're not here."

Edited by NovaSeeker
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I think it was earned, because David used Calamity's own ego against him. He convinced him of the truth using his own "mastery" of his powers.

"You are the master of your power right? Then you know exactly how this Dimension Hopping works. You know this dimension is real. You know this is one where you left. And you know that not all epics are evil here. And you know that's because you're not here."

I just didn't feel there was sufficient buildup to that moment. We just didn't know enough about Calamity by that point for those lines to carry the punch they should have.

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I just didn't feel there was sufficient buildup to that moment. We just didn't know enough about Calamity by that point for those lines to carry the punch they should have.

 

I agree that the ending felt rushed, but I don't think it was a cheat, really. It just felt like, as you implied, Calamity probably would/should have taken a little bit longer to get from point A to point B. Of course, given that David, Prof, and Megan were all just sitting around on a glass space station... yeah, they probably didn't really have days or weeks to just sit around and let Calamity stew on it.  But perhaps they could have explored the alternate dimension a little more or something... I don't know, really.  Ultimately, it felt rushed to me, too, but I was ultimately ok with the logic of the ending.

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I really enjoyed this book.

Granted, Firefight was better and the ending was a little underwhelming (but still great), yet I still really really liked this book. Nice work Sanderson... And the Reckoners swag I got with pre-order was fun.

 

The one chapter that almost almost made this book my favorite of the series, was Chapter 17.

I love the interaction between Megan and David, and when he calls her a Sunrise instead of a Potato or a Hippo, and then explains himself so un-david-like-eloquently and she tears up...

Then in the same chapter, I was reading along and saw:
 

 

We called it Herman.

And I loved the book. Because that's my name. Thanks Brandon.

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I'm still not sure if that flies with his weakness being entirely based on his perception. Alright, it triggering while he was succesfully teaching Tia how to use his powers I can buy at least somewhat but how could he perceive Tavi's powers as a representation of his own failures before he even perceived what her powers are?

Either his powers trigger his weakness objectively, in which case we have two seperate triggers or if it all is the same weakness and steems from Prof's active perception at the moment, then Tavi should not have been able to tensor away the forcefield bubble without Prof knowing what was up with her.

 

I'm confused as to why you believe it has to be two separate triggers? The weakness consists of a substance and an action. For Kool-Aid Gal, Kool-Aid is the substance, and drinking it is the action. For Prof, his powers are the substance, and failing is the action. In both circumstances the substance without the action led to momentary lapses, and the weakness wouldn't fully trigger until the combination of substance and action occurred.

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I'm confused as to why you believe it has to be two separate triggers? The weakness consists of a substance and an action. For Kool-Aid Gal, Kool-Aid is the substance, and drinking it is the action. For Prof, his powers are the substance, and failing is the action. In both circumstances the substance without the action led to momentary lapses, and the weakness wouldn't fully trigger until the combination of substance and action occurred.

Do you think that substance and action rule is something general? Because I would like to see you make that destinction with cases like Regalia or Newton. As for Prof, given how the ending portrays it, his weakness is purely a state of mind in which he acknowledging that he failed(otherwise it would have triggered when he actually failed and not when he had to listen to people telling him how he failed).

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I haven't seen anyone post or explain this, but does anyone else think that there is a contradiction between the end of Firefight and the end of Calamity? If Prof fears failure and the use of his powers is the manifestation of responsibility,... and you have to face your fear while saving someone, then why did Prof not face his fears when disarming the Obliteration-made bomb in Babilar? Wouldn't that have qualified? What am I missing? Was it that Prof didn't think he was saving anyone? How could that be, as it was the whole conflict part of the plot in Firefight... Regalia used Obliteration to force Prof to use his powers. Was it that Prof knew he wouldn't fail if he used his powers? Someone didn't let him think he would fail? Seems like an explanation is warranted.

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I haven't seen anyone post or explain this, but does anyone else think that there is a contradiction between the end of Firefight and the end of Calamity? If Prof fears failure and the use of his powers is the manifestation of responsibility,... and you have to face your fear while saving someone, then why did Prof not face his fears when disarming the Obliteration-made bomb in Babilar? Wouldn't that have qualified? What am I missing? Was it that Prof didn't think he was saving anyone? How could that be, as it was the whole conflict part of the plot in Firefight... Regalia used Obliteration to force Prof to use his powers. Was it that Prof knew he wouldn't fail if he used his powers? Someone didn't let him think he would fail? Seems like an explanation is warranted.

I guess it didn't work, because in that moment Prof never thought he failed. Yes, from an outsider perspective we can declare succumbing to his corruption as a failure but that is a judgement a corrupted Epic would make on his own, even if he did put everything on the line to save other people in that moment. I will agree with you however that it's somewhat wonky.

Edited by Edgedancer
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Do you think that substance and action rule is something general? Because I would like to see you make that destinction with cases like Regalia or Newton. As for Prof, given how the ending portrays it, his weakness is purely a state of mind in which he acknowledging that he failed(otherwise it would have triggered when he actually failed and not when he had to listen to people telling him how he failed).

 

I don't think the substance-action model is the only model, but given we've now got two instances of it, it has to be one of the models in which weaknesses manifest. 

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I haven't seen anyone post or explain this, but does anyone else think that there is a contradiction between the end of Firefight and the end of Calamity? If Prof fears failure and the use of his powers is the manifestation of responsibility,... and you have to face your fear while saving someone, then why did Prof not face his fears when disarming the Obliteration-made bomb in Babilar? Wouldn't that have qualified? What am I missing? Was it that Prof didn't think he was saving anyone? How could that be, as it was the whole conflict part of the plot in Firefight... Regalia used Obliteration to force Prof to use his powers. Was it that Prof knew he wouldn't fail if he used his powers? Someone didn't let him think he would fail? Seems like an explanation is warranted.

So I felt this was a really good point so I felt compelled to re-read the scene to see if I missed anything. So this is pretty loose and mainly to rationalize it, but I think I figured out why. Prof didn't completely contain the blast. He opened the top of his forceshield to point it upwards. So even then he didn't fully manifest his powers, or believe he could stop it, just direct it away. The problem is even doing that, subtly made him cross the line he had been walking just enough to make him change. Given how we have seen him use his powers as a high epic, it is my belief he could have contained that power by himself. If he had aimed to truly sacrificed himself to save everyone, he could have enveloped it and himself in it completely so no power would have escaped and he perhaps would have been so weakened from using his power and regeneration, he could have been handled. But again he didn't fully believe he could accomplish it, so he used his powers to direct it instead of stop it. Now there are a lot of counters to what I wrote, that is why I am saying this is more to rationalize than definitively answer it. 

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I justo finish the book, I like it a lot but I also think that the end was rushed.

I have a lot of questions mostly of the last chapter

Tia was finnaly alive? Why prof said that they have to call her when the spacestation was falling.

Mizzy became an epic? What was the text that knighthawk send them that make david say that comment about her.

And of course a ton of questions about firefight dimensión, how david died, why his father told firefight that he kill him. What about prof? And without larcener why Atlanta was still salt, and more important why he didnt stay in that universe.

Any ideas??

(sorry for my english, but I just have to create this account to ask this questions)

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I justo finish the book, I like it a lot but I also think that the end was rushed.

I have a lot of questions mostly of the last chapter

Tia was finnaly alive? Why prof said that they have to call her when the spacestation was falling.

Mizzy became an epic? What was the text that knighthawk send them that make david say that comment about her.

And of course a ton of questions about firefight dimensión, how david died, why his father told firefight that he kill him. What about prof? And without larcener why Atlanta was still salt, and more important why he didnt stay in that universe.

Any ideas??

(sorry for my english, but I just have to create this account to ask this questions)

 

My interpretation about Tia is that she was still dead but Prof had momentarily forgotten:

 

“I knew this thing was too low for such an orbital speed!” Prof shouted. “Sparks. We need to call Tia and…” He grew pale.

He grew pale because he had forgotten that she was dead.

 

 

The quote about Mizzy was:

 

She showed me a message she had pulled up from Knighthawk.

 
“Mizzy?” I asked.
 
Megan nodded.
 
“Sparks. I wonder how she’ll take to being an Epic.”

 

From that I interpret that Knighthawk was just filling them in on the happenings in Ildithia (sp?) since they left.

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I didn't see anything on Dawnslight recently, but I'd thought I'd add my take on him, since people seem to think he's more mysterious than he was meant to be.

 

One thing to notice is that when people say "Since Calamity," they really mean "Since a year after Calamity rose."  In the first book, Prof says that he was an Epic "since Calamity," but other people later talk about it in more detail and say it was a year later.  Because the events and side-effects of Calamity were so, well, big, it's not surprising that people talk that way.

 

With that little issue out of the way, it seems likely that Dawnlight is simply a very powerful Epic, one of the early few who avoided the darkness, either by facing his fear head on (perhaps as part of a dream or hallucination) or simply by virtue of being damaged in a way which made him less susceptible to fear.  Either way, I don't think he was meant to be the huge enigma people are thinking of him as.

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I justo finish the book, I like it a lot but I also think that the end was rushed.

I have a lot of questions mostly of the last chapter

Tia was finnaly alive? Why prof said that they have to call her when the spacestation was falling.

Mizzy became an epic? What was the text that knighthawk send them that make david say that comment about her.

And of course a ton of questions about firefight dimensión, how david died, why his father told firefight that he kill him. What about prof? And without larcener why Atlanta was still salt, and more important why he didnt stay in that universe.

Any ideas??

(sorry for my english, but I just have to create this account to ask this questions)

On Tia:

Prof had just recovered from the corruption, I imagine that similarly to a Rending there is a bit of memory loss there and he forgot what had happened, and then suddenly remembered again.

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A couple of things that bugged me about Calamity:

 

Did I miss something in Steelheart and Firefight or are Prof's powers never described as being green in those books? I don't recall him having a green theme, or any color theme, at all. I remember the "Limelight" name referring to the special gun that they buy from Diamond which shoots green blasts. If anyone can point to Prof's powers being green in the 1st 2 books (or Mitosis), please let me know.

 

Was the reason for Atlanta being made of salt, and creeping forward on a weekly cycle, ever explained? The only reference I found to it was someone (David?) mentioning that Larcener re/absorbed some power. Seems a bit arbitrary to have a whole city built of creeping salt. 

Edited by raimund
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I know there will be people who disagree with me, but another thing that bugged me about Calamity was the lack of details on the leadership of Ildithia. See, in Steelheart, we got a clear sense of how Steelheart's leadership has formed Newcago into a brutal but stable dictatorship where the people live in fear of their ruler and his government. The people have all the necessities of life, as well as entertainment, but in return they forfeit their rights to whichever Epic feels like taking them. In Firefight, we got a clear sense of how Regalia has turned Babilar into a place where "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" is the guiding philosophy. People party and go about their business while Regalia's Epics roam the bridges, killing when they want and partying when they don't. Newcago and Babilar are cities that reflect their leaders. 

 

Ildithia, on the other hand, didn't feel like a city reflecting any sort of leadership. I realize that was probably the point—it's a moving city ruled by not one Epic, but several, so it's not going to be a reflection of any one leader. But even with that caveat, it felt lacking. No one is able to get a feeling of home, since their homes are destroyed so often; they group into gangs for survival….but why? Do they form "families" more as a survival mechanism against the Epics, or against each other? There was evidence for both, and neither felt fully explored. Prof changes the dynamic of power and it's unstable when David arrives, but there wasn't a clear sense of what the old dynamic was like. 

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A couple of things that bugged me about Calamity:

Did I miss something in Steelheart and Firefight or are Prof's powers never described as being green in those books? I don't recall him having a green theme, or any color theme, at all. I remember the "Limelight" name referring to the special gun that they buy from Diamond which shoots green blasts. If anyone can point to Prof's powers being green in the 1st 2 books (or Mitosis), please let me know.

Was the reason for Atlanta being made of salt, and creeping forward on a weekly cycle, ever explained? The only reference I found to it was someone (David?) mentioning that Larcener re/absorbed some power. Seems a bit arbitrary to have a whole city built of creeping salt.

I don't recall him ever being described to have any color to his powers actually.

I guess they just happened to be green, so he settled on "Limelight" again.

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I know there will be people who disagree with me, but another thing that bugged me about Calamity was the lack of details on the leadership of Ildithia. See, in Steelheart, we got a clear sense of how Steelheart's leadership has formed Newcago into a brutal but stable dictatorship where the people live in fear of their ruler and his government. The people have all the necessities of life, as well as entertainment, but in return they forfeit their rights to whichever Epic feels like taking them. In Firefight, we got a clear sense of how Regalia has turned Babilar into a place where "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" is the guiding philosophy. People party and go about their business while Regalia's Epics roam the bridges, killing when they want and partying when they don't. Newcago and Babilar are cities that reflect their leaders. 

 

Ildithia, on the other hand, didn't feel like a city reflecting any sort of leadership. I realize that was probably the point—it's a moving city ruled by not one Epic, but several, so it's not going to be a reflection of any one leader. But even with that caveat, it felt lacking. No one is able to get a feeling of home, since their homes are destroyed so often; they group into gangs for survival….but why? Do they form "families" more as a survival mechanism against the Epics, or against each other? There was evidence for both, and neither felt fully explored. Prof changes the dynamic of power and it's unstable when David arrives, but there wasn't a clear sense of what the old dynamic was like. 

I got the sense that it was like a gypsy population that was loosely governed by the population and whoever was the strongest. You roved and made what groups/families you did. It was amorphous for a reason. At least in my opinion

 

I don't recall him ever being described to have any color to his powers actually.

I guess they just happened to be green, so he settled on "Limelight" again.

Upon re-reading the scene where Prof stops the explosion in firefight regarding another point made, I noticed his force fields were described as blue there. 

Edited by Pathfinder
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Yes, I loved Calamity. Yes, there are still questions that I have. Yes, I feel like there are loose threads that are in want of closure.

And yet, Brandon is such a careful writer with great intricacies in his universes...

Those things, to my mind, add up to intentionality for at least some of the more glaring holes.

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That was....that was beautiful. His father. Prof. I can see people are commenting that it doesn't make sense, I'll think about that later. The emotion was perfect.

It's maybe a touch too much happily ever after but eh. Life has been horrible to David. Why not meet his father again?

 

This is basically how I felt about the ending. Seeing David with his father again just gave me all kinds of warm fuzzies. I'm sad that the Tia in David's reality died so that she and Prof don't get their happily ever after, but at least now he has a chance to be a hero more completely.

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