Demandred Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 90% of this book was fantastic!! Right up until the Obliteration takes David to the station. Then things went all Mass effect 3 nonsensical. It's not as bad as that was. But I am very unsatisfied with this ending as it stands. For me at least, the confrontation with Calamity was weak. And I think I would have actually liked it a lot more if the Steelheart from the other dimension actually turned out to be the same guy instead of David's Father. Prof's powers are way more badass than I thought even after firefight though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Yeah, I agree. It feels kind of.... odd, the ending. I enjoyed the book. It was a blast, and I saw some of the hints towards different things. But I feel like the Calamity origin was...odd. But it was a fun read! EDIT- I felt like Tia's actions were odd too. I kept on expecting it to be revealed that she was a doppleganger or someone imitating her since she wasn't acting like herself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccstat Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 They confront the great Eldritch abomination and... they show him what he's done wrong, and that's it.See, that part didn't bother me, because it wasn't about showing him what he'd done wrong so much as confronting him with his fear (that he had been wrong), which is plausibly the culmination of the whole find Epic weaknesses thread. I'm not saying I found it fulfilling, mind, just that it didn't seem to come out of the blue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Mostly awesome book...still feel Firefight is the best book of the series. The ending felt rushed, mainly because the buildup and action in salty Atlanta was so much better than Obliteration yanking David away to the space station. Although Elantris kind of suffered in the same way; once Raoden was crowned King everything that followed felt kind of by the numbers. Wish both Mizzy and Megan had been given more to do independent of David's plans. A great way to have done that would have been to flesh out the conflict over Sam more (which I was really looking forward to after Firefight!), although I can see why that wasn't pursued due to pacing. This is YA, not the Stormlight Archives after all. Last major quibble: the Reckoners could easily have been a Cosmere book, for all the protestations that they weren't. Shards, Adolnalsium, Investiture, were all present in one form or another. First warning, I drive spikes through people who repeatedly insist that Reckoners is cosmere. If it wasn't set on earth it would be a pretty awesome cosmere novel but I think it's be too relevant to the entirety of the cosmere, it would've needed to be released later in time for it to work as a cosmere novel, otherwise we've got multiverses already with Shards or Splints that can cross into other multiverses and influence things which makes for a big ball of confusingness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mestiv Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Did the Obliteration thing really bother anyone else? He was the character whose fate I was most anticipating. He struck me as the perfect example of a good man corrupted beyond his own capacity for coping, but as someone who was ultimately redeemable. I fully expected him to face his fear and start down the road to redemption, so to have him say at the end, "Oh, yeah, I did that five years ago and I just decided being insane was too much fun" was a huge disappointment to me. It felt....false. Maybe I was reading his character wrong; I don't know. I read him as a man whose twisted theology became something dark and deadly when corrupted by his own fears, who would have jumped at the chance to be rid of what he saw as his terrible burden. To have him turn out to be just another crazy fundamentalist felt, to me, like Sanderson took all that depth he had in Firefight and flushed it down the toilet. I wasn't bothered at all. I have never really feel the sympathy for Obliteration that some of the Sharders do. In Firefight he seemed to me as someone driven by religious craziness, not fears, and it turns out that he really was. Also, that wasn't any surprise after David witnessed this scene in the alternate dimension where his dad was catching people jumping from the windows to escape Obliterations heat. They didn't have Calamity in that world anymore and Obliteration was still killing people. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I wasn't bothered at all. I have never really feel the sympathy for Obliteration that some of the Sharders do. In Firefight he seemed to me as someone driven by religious craziness, not fears, and it turns out that he really was. Also, that wasn't any surprise after David witnessed this scene in the alternate dimension where his dad was catching people jumping from the windows to escape Obliterations heat. They didn't have Calamity in that world anymore and Obliteration was still killing people. For me I actually liked his ending in Calamity, it just shows that even if they do suddenly remove the corruption, some people are just insane or power crazy. Not all Epic will immediately be good, they just have the chance to be good now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiLyghtSansSparkles Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I wasn't bothered at all. I have never really feel the sympathy for Obliteration that some of the Sharders do. In Firefight he seemed to me as someone driven by religious craziness, not fears, and it turns out that he really was. Also, that wasn't any surprise after David witnessed this scene in the alternate dimension where his dad was catching people jumping from the windows to escape Obliterations heat. They didn't have Calamity in that world anymore and Obliteration was still killing people. For me I actually liked his ending in Calamity, it just shows that even if they do suddenly remove the corruption, some people are just insane or power crazy. Not all Epic will immediately be good, they just have the chance to be good now. See, what bothered me about Obliteration being insane in every parallel universe is the fact that his brand of religious craziness is inseparable from fear. I was raised with that sort of craziness, and let me tell you, it's all about fear. Fear of an angry God. Fear of not being good enough. Fear of not "getting it" in time. Fear of being wrong. Fear of the innate evil in every human being. Some people do make it all about the power it gives them over others, but after the weakness-fear connection was revealed, I didn't read Obliteration that way. I read him as someone whose fear-based faith has driven him to the only solution he knew: destroying mankind before mankind destroyed itself. It might seem like the nature of his faith made him irredeemable, but didn't. Quite the opposite, actually. When you separate your faith from the fear that it's blended with, you're left with a God who watched his most precious creations make terrible choices—and who still sees a lot of good in them. Remove the fear of not being good enough, and it's easier to see the good in others. Seeing them as people who are basically good, not basically evil, becomes possible when the fear is gone. I saw Obliteration as a basically good man whose faith had been poisoned by fear, and who could have been something incredible if that fear were removed. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Twi, I felt much the same way. I don't know that Brandon intended Obliteration to be insane in every parallel dimension, but the reveal at the end that he had overcome the darkness five years previously certainly minimized (in my mind) the impact Calamity was having! To find out that one of the *very worst* epics, the one going around destroying entire cities on purpose, was doing so of his own free-will was distressing. After that revelation Obliteration wasn't an interesting character to me. He was no longer someone struggling against magical darkness thinking it was based around his faith (which, as you pointed out, seemed to be a central theme in Firefight). He was simply an insane rabid dog, needing to be put down. That sort of story, while important on occasion, was not what I was expecting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiLyghtSansSparkles Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Twi, I felt much the same way. I don't know that Brandon intended Obliteration to be insane in every parallel dimension, but the reveal at the end that he had overcome the darkness five years previously certainly minimized (in my mind) the impact Calamity was having! To find out that one of the *very worst* epics, the one going around destroying entire cities on purpose, was doing so of his own free-will was distressing. After that revelation Obliteration wasn't an interesting character to me. He was no longer someone struggling against magical darkness thinking it was based around his faith (which, as you pointed out, seemed to be a central theme in Firefight). He was simply an insane rabid dog, needing to be put down. That sort of story, while important on occasion, was not what I was expecting. And I did like the idea of some Epics choosing to do evil under their own free will. It's plausible, and it's scary, and I think it's something that needed to be included. Just not with Obliteration. Like you, I saw his struggle with the darkness as a crisis of faith, which could (and should, in my opinion) have been resolved by getting away from Calamity's corruption. Having him be someone who had already escaped the darkness and continued to destroy the world because he was insane took him from being a complex, sensitive, and chilling portrayal of a man whose faith had been corrupted by fear; to being yet another cartoonish Sinister Minister. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Arum Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I'm still reading Calamity, so I have not read anything in this thread that precedes this comment (so apologies if it's been mentioned already) but... It was the difference between putting ketchup on your hot dog and decorating a cake. Best to let an expert take over. [rant] So..umm...David is from Newcago! I am outraged by him even thinking that a hot dog should ever have a relationship with ketchup. He must secretly be from Portland or Atlanta, because a true Newcago-an would know that this is blasphemous! [/rant] 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 See, that part didn't bother me, because it wasn't about showing him what he'd done wrong so much as confronting him with his fear (that he had been wrong), which is plausibly the culmination of the whole find Epic weaknesses thread. I'm not saying I found it fulfilling, mind, just that it didn't seem to come out of the blue. But they key wasn't just confronting fears. They key was facing the fears to save someone. I think it would have been more satisfying if that had happened, as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calamity Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I was thinking the same. Chicago is mustard territory. However it is david, who isn't known for his examples. Sparks, you actually want him to make sense? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilNuff Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 The quote about Chicago dogs in Mitosis is pretty funny...despite the fact that Chicago dogs are disgusting and ketchup is required for any real hot dog. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 See, what bothered me about Obliteration being insane in every parallel universe is the fact that his brand of religious craziness is inseparable from fear. I was raised with that sort of craziness, and let me tell you, it's all about fear. Fear of an angry God. Fear of not being good enough. Fear of not "getting it" in time. Fear of being wrong. Fear of the innate evil in every human being. Some people do make it all about the power it gives them over others, but after the weakness-fear connection was revealed, I didn't read Obliteration that way. I read him as someone whose fear-based faith has driven him to the only solution he knew: destroying mankind before mankind destroyed itself. It might seem like the nature of his faith made him irredeemable, but didn't. Quite the opposite, actually. When you separate your faith from the fear that it's blended with, you're left with a God who watched his most precious creations make terrible choices—and who still sees a lot of good in them. Remove the fear of not being good enough, and it's easier to see the good in others. Seeing them as people who are basically good, not basically evil, becomes possible when the fear is gone. I saw Obliteration as a basically good man whose faith had been poisoned by fear, and who could have been something incredible if that fear were removed. For me that was exactly the point, he had all of these religious based fears but instead of facing them to save another person like Megan or David he faced them to save 'humanity' as a nebulous concept and the way he is facing his fears is to conquer them by destroying every person on the planet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I was skeptical about Prof's weakness since it'd make no sense for Tavi to trigger them if he was weak to his own powers, even if their powers matched. It would have to not be his powers themselves, but something he saw in them that also triggered him when Tavi fought him. He probably mistook them for his own at first, and I also suspect it is possible that maybe he had a real daughter die because of his Rending and he felt responsible? Tia does seem to recognize her. Really though. Limelight is even more overpowered than I anticipated. It feels kind of awkward that the whole reason this mess happened was because Calamity was an easily irritable, pathetic, and cowardly loser who wouldn't admit he was wrong. Really bro? Grow up. Obliteration does lose a bit of depth, but I suppose it was an important point to make I reckon. So, um, where did Mizzy's informed-attribute powers we never get to see come from then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I was skeptical about Prof's weakness since it'd make no sense for Tavi to trigger them if he was weak to his own powers, even if their powers matched. It would have to not be his powers themselves, but something he saw in them that also triggered him when Tavi fought him. He probably mistook them for his own at first, and I also suspect it is possible that maybe he had a real daughter die because of his Rending and he felt responsible? Tia does seem to recognize her. Really though. Limelight is even more overpowered than I anticipated. It feels kind of awkward that the whole reason this mess happened was because Calamity was an easily irritable, pathetic, and cowardly loser who wouldn't admit he was wrong. Really bro? Grow up. Obliteration does lose a bit of depth, but I suppose it was an important point to make I reckon. So, um, where did Mizzy's informed-attribute powers we never get to see come from then? My suspicion was immediately triggered because you need to have the fears to become an Epic in the first place, you can't fear your powers before you have powers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 That was part of it. But then Edmund wasn't exactly deathly afraid of dogs until the dog torture either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneSpren Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) I loved this book with the exception of the ending, though I do love that we now have conformation that the Faithful were literally waiting for Superman. Edit: I don't understand, however, why David gets the Steelheart powers if he was almost made into a water-powered Epic in Firefight. Edited February 17, 2016 by WayneSpren 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilNuff Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I loved this book with the exception of the ending, though I do love that we now have conformation that the Faithful were literally waiting for Superman. Edit: I don't understand, however, why David gets the Steelheart powers if he was almost made into a water-powered Epic in Firefight. This is just from memory but as I recall in Firefight Regalia asked/suggested for water powers and Calamity said he would get something thematically appropriate. Obviously since he killed Steelheart, getting those powers fit that bill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozndevl Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I love that one of my original comments about Steelheart being a stand-in for Supes really turned out to be in the right vein. I also loved the part about discussing Prof's weaknesses... I think BS must have put a few of those examplese in the book specifically for sharders here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Oh right, one more thing. So in the end it more or less really was the power of love. . . . don't let Megan hear that 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) With the ending...Wouldn't it have been more thematically appropriate and fulfilling if Calamity had realized what he was doing was hurting people and messing them up and then leaving in a more dignified, repentant sort of way? Just spitballing... I mean that was the whole point right? You overcome your fear to help or save someone? Seems like a missed opportunity for full plot circle closure. Edited February 18, 2016 by The Invested Beard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 With the ending...Wouldn't it have been more thematically appropriate and fulfilling if Calamity had realized what he was doing was hurting people and messing them up and then leaving in a more dignified, repentant sort of way? Just spitballing... I mean that was the whole point right? You overcome your fear to help or save someone? Seems like a missed opportunity for full plot circle closure. I said that on page 1 or 2, and I totally agree. The way to claim their powers completely was to save someone while facing your fear. Calamity just fades away, and it's unsatisfying. I'd like to have seen him save someone because he realized people have worth, and then fade away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 So . . . how did Obliteration of all people save anyone? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galavantes Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 So . . . how did Obliteration of all people save anyone? According to him, he actually thinks he's saving everyone. In his own crazy way. Apparently he had to face down his fears in order to do that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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