ARARITA

a holy crap Nightblood moment

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um - if Vasher made Nightblood with a bunch of his own breath 

 

(if it wasn't his it was Shashara's)

 

can he take em back and essentially kill Nightblood ?

 

holy crap

Edited by ARARITA
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um - if Vasher made Nightblood with a bunch of his own breath 

 

(or Shashara did)

 

can he take em back and essentially kill Nightblood ?

 

holy crap

No, Nightblood is a being at it own, you can't take back Breath for another being... For the same reason you can't take back the breath used to Awaken a Lifeless.

Edited by Yata
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is Nightblood a being ?

he is an   awakened object    with sentience 

is he lifeless ?

cuz that would of course justify me calling him a Zombieblade lol :P

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I'm not sure - see, you can't take Breaths by force. Since Nightblood is sentient... I think he could give them up to Vasher, but it would be impossible for Vasher to simply take them back by "Your Breath to mine" Command.

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I'm not sure 

seems like a mixture 

I agree that he probably can't - but I am not 100%

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is Nightblood a being ?

he is an   awakened object    with sentience 

Therefore it is a sentience being :)

Like it would be any other Spren or Sentience Splinter.

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Although Vasher/Talaxin had a hand in the decision to create Nightblood (apparently because he wanted to create a Shardblade), it was his wife Shashara who actually Awakened him into being:
 

Is Shashara  here? Nightblood asked, excitement in his nebulous voice. We need to go see her! She’ll be worried about what happened to me.

“We killed Shashara long ago, Nightblood,” Vasher said. “Just like we killed Arsteel.” Just like we’ll eventually kill Denth.

As usual, Nightblood refused to acknowledge Shashara’s death. She made me, you know, Nightblood said.


Shashara had always been the most talented of them, far more capable than Vasher himself, who had used tricks—like encasing bones in steel or s tone—to make his creations. Shashara had been spurred on by the knowledge that she’d been shown up by Yesteel and the development of ichor-alcohol. She had studied, experimented, practiced. And she’d done it. She’d learned to forge the Breath of a thousand people into a piece of steel, Awaken it to sentience, and give it a Command. That single Command took on immense power, providing a foundation for the personality of the object Awakened.

With Nightblood, she and Vasher had spent much time in thought, then finally chosen a simple, yet elegant, Command. “Destroy evil.”

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New theory: Nightblood will kill Odium, or someone big and important, by doing the "My Breath to yours" command and flooding them with all of his corrupted Investiture. That could even be him finally "fulfilling his command" by destroying the biggest source of evil in the Cosmere.

Edited by King's Twit
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New theory: Nightblood will kill Odium, or someone big and important, by doing the "My Breath to yours" command and flooding them with all of his corrupted Investiture. That could even be him finally "fulfilling his command" by destroying the biggest source of evil in the Cosmere.

I don't know if it is possible to it give away its soul.

And to me its own Investiture isn't corrupted at all. It's the extra Investiture Nightblood feed that after it eject in a corrupted form (but I suppose because Nightblood is an Endowment's Splinter and It can't "take with force" Investiture).

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The thing is though, we can sort of figure out what Breath looks like, in relation to stormlight or mists, from breath transfer scenes. And I'm rather sure breath is never black, so something happens inside Nightblood.

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is Nightblood a being ?

he is an   awakened object    with sentience 

is he lifeless ?

cuz that would of course justify me calling him a Zombieblade lol :P

 

Nightblood is a Type IV BioChromatic entity; an awakened object with sentience.

 

Lifeless on the other hand are Type II BioChromatic Entities; Awakened mindless deceased bodies.

 

Sentient awakenings can not have their breath recalled.

Edited by Iron Eyes
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I've read the book multiple times - i do know he is type IV

it would make sense that he can't have it taken from him - maybe - but do we know for sure ?

can he (Nightblood) give his breath away ? would he then be a drab evil-killing blade ? 

...

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I've read the book multiple times - i do know he is type IV

it would make sense that he can't have it taken from him - maybe - but do we know for sure ?

can he (Nightblood) give his breath away ? would he then be a drab evil-killing blade ? 

...

 

He cannot give his breaths away. It would be impossible for him to give a command (which at its base giving your breaths away is a command). He would need the 10th heightening as his command would need to be mental (since he cannot speak).

Edited by Iron Eyes
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He cannot give his breaths away. It would be impossible for him to give a command (which at its base giving your breaths away is a command). He would need the 10th heightening as his command would need to be mental (since he cannot speak).

But also in that case, Nightblood is quite an manmade Endowment's Splinter. I don't know if he can simply give himself away.

At the moment I suppose it isn't 1000 breaths but a unique agglomerate of Endowment's investiture

 

It's like if a Divine Breath became sentience and one day decide to left his Returned (killed him) going with another being. (yeah I know, strange example :S )

Edited by Yata
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and that's why I am asking questions we think we know the answer to - we don't ;)

 

AND - he likes to specifically mess with things we think we know

Edited by ARARITA
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and that's why I am asking questions we think we know the answer to - we don't ;)

 

AND - he likes to specifically mess with things we think we know

 

You're being tedious at this point ;) . I suppose you could argue that everything we know about the Cosmere, WoBs included could be wrong because Brandon could just be like nah, tricked you... but I highly doubt that is the case. Based on the established rules of Awakening you need to speak a clear command in your native language (unless you have the 10th heightening and can then do it mentally) and have a clear intent to give a command.

 

Since Nightblood cannot speak (and does not have the 10th Heightening) and and probably cannot form a clear enough intent for the process then he cannot pass his breaths to another. :rolleyes:

Edited by Iron Eyes
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You're being tedious at this point ;) . I suppose you could argue that everything we know about the Cosmere, WoBs included could be wrong because Brandon could just be like nah, tricked you... but I highly doubt that is the case. Based on the established rules of Awakening you need to speak a clear command in your native language (unless you have the 10th heightening and can then do it mentally) and have a clear intent to give a command.

 

Since Nightblood cannot speak (and does not have the 10th Heightening) and and probably cannot form a clear enough intent for the process then he cannot pass his breaths to another. :rolleyes:

 

But you're assuming that the rules would be the same for a type IV entity as they would for a human. Who knows why you need to be the tenth heightening to use mental commands? Maybe that's when a person's Cognitive aspect has expanded enough to send out cognitive "feelers" to be able to impart Commands mentally, and Nightblood already has this ability to speak directly to others through the Cognitive realm.

 

Edit: Also, doesn't the "my life to yours" command for breath transfer not really require a mental image of the Intent. I thought that you just have to say the words and it happens, like when Lightsong tells that child how to give him her Breath. It's at least one of the simplest Commands that exists in terms of visualizing it; I think it is reasonable to assume that this is within the cognitive abilities of Nightblood, assuming that it is possible for him to use Awakener Commands at all.

Edited by King's Twit
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indeed - we do NOT know .

Vasher says throughout the book that there is a lot we don't know about awakening

we know that Vasher and Shashara collaborated on making Nightblood

who's breath was used ? :D

I am a big fan of Nightblood and I believe it is something important to the overall Cosmere story

 

and because of a recent brilliant post by I forget who sorry - I believe we do not know what we think we do about Denth - after this last reread - I believe he's been to Scadrial and has / had access to speed one way or another

 

also , I believe we do not know what we think we do about Vasher - by a looooong stretch

just by his part in helping to make Nightblood , patterned after a shardblade, we can surmise that he is knowledgeable about different Shards / planets' magic systems / and if he can use breath on Roshar - he is knowledgeable enough to hack said systems

Edited by ARARITA
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indeed - we do NOT know .

 

Your points are good ones, rereading my own posts I came off a lot more abrasive and condescending then I had intended to be. Sorry about that.

 

Regarding who actually made Nightblood, Nightblood himself says that Shashara made him, he could be wrong but giving the nature of Awakening, it would make sense that he implicitly knows who awakened him.

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it does also say it was a collaboration - so I wonder how that happens

maybe she did the command and he gave breath ?

come to think about it - we don't know that it is the usual process to make awakened objects - AND -

something may have gone wrong - that life sucking black smoke thing

so maybe it was a hemalurgic spike by killing someone on Scadrial - OR -

it was a dead spren blade from Roshar --- yay Zombieblade

seriously though - the 5 scholars - at least Vasher and Denth - it says WERE good people - what changed them ? hmmmm

@Iron Eyes - all good - no offense taken - I took it as a matter that we think we understand and therefore you were stating / defending what you thought was common sense - but - it isn't ;) in psychology it's called expectation - and he uses our expectations against ourselves - we judge and think we know something and then he gets us with it

Edited by ARARITA
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Breaths can't be stolen...

Unless you're holding a drawn Nightblood.

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