Oathbringer

Night blood's forging

38 posts in this topic

Investiture interferes with Investiture

This is not necessarily true, as feruchemy and allomancy happen to be able to enhance each other, yet they are different forms of investiture as mentioned in the Ars Arcanum of Shadows of Self,

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In order to destroy evil, one has to have the ability to understand/conceptualize what evil is/means. So, I believe that is why nightblood gained some amount of sapience, that way it has the ability to fulfill its command (which is why it took so many breaths).

Though his understanding is still kinda off :P

This is not necessarily true, as feruchemy and allomancy happen to be able to enhance each other, yet they are different forms of investiture as mentioned in the Ars Arcanum of Shadows of Self,

They only enhance each other through a single hack, by burning metalminds (well, and nicrosil feruchemy technically, but that's acting more on your ability to use allomancy rather than the power itself).

We have no idea whether metalminds burn more slowly, AFAIK, but they are definitely more resistant to steelpushes, a known and proven interference in between the two. Other than pushing and burning, both powers don't really have methods of interaction where direct interference is possible that come to mind.

Edited by natc
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Early on this post we talk about "What Does Vahser see to come at Nightblood's creation", there is new WoB on the topic:
 

 

Q: How long is a Nalthis year?

A: That's a PAFO. I don't remember off of the top of my head, but there's a limited range of what it could be do to the "Goldilocks" zone. (The zone in which habitable planets can align so it's cool enough for water but not so cold that it's ice).

 

Q: How long ago was the Recreance from modern day or from the Heirocracy? 

A: The Heirocracy is in recent history, the Recreance is in ancient history.

 

Q: Did Vasher visit Roshar before or after the Recreance? I ask because he probably had to have seen a live Shardblade to model Nightblood after, right?

A: Vasher didn't have to have seen a live Shardblade. He could've heard stories and modeled Nightblood after those.

 

A: For the chronology, there is a specific timeline of when the events are, but Karen's the one that's in charge of that. 

 

Therefore Vasher never saw a living Shardblade or Honorblade.

Edited by Yata
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No, he dodged the question. He said Vasher could have just heard a story. Either learning about them or seeing one would have worked. That I know of, though, this is the first we learn that he modeled Nightblood on a life Sprenblade, not a dead one.

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No, he dodged the question. He said Vasher could have just heard a story. Either learning about them or seeing one would have worked. That I know of, though, this is the first we learn that he modeled Nightblood on a life Sprenblade, not a dead one.

 

 
But Vasher is still too young.
Vasher returned Centuries after Vo, Vo returned after the Hierocracy End and the Hierocracy is in recent history while the Recreance is in ancient history.
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Wasn't there something about one order of radiants keeping the oathpact and going on in secret? They would still have live shardblades, wouldn't they?

 

*this is based on stuff I only half remember from this forum, so please don't shoot me if I got it wrong and it turns out that was just speculation.

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But Vasher is still too young.
Vasher returned Centuries after Vo, Vo returned after the Hierocracy End and the Hierocracy is in recent history while the Recreance is in ancient history.

 

 

I'm not questioning your reasoning... but odder things have happened. I'd like it better if we had a certain answer. My post was in reply to you responding to that specific question, saying, "the matter is closed." There's compelling evidence, and I'd be surprised if Vasher ever saw a living Sprenblade... but things have surprised me before.

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I sort of think that Nightblood is something like a... frankensplinter. Shove a buttload of Investature into something and give it an Intent; that seems like how one would go about making a synthetic Splinter. There could be other worlds' practices in play, though, because he sure seems to bleed power like (Mistborn Era One Spoiler)

a Hemalurgic spike.

Edited by Corax
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As I mentioned early in this thread, Investiture interferes with Investiture so it is extremely unlikely that Nightblood is an awakened dead Shardblade. Even dead, a Shardblade is very invested... I suspect awakening one would take quite a bit more than a 1000 breaths.

 

You know, that might be why metal is so hard to awaken. Apart from metals role in unlocking allomancy and the like, the mistborn trilogy also implies metal has some level of inherent investiture. So does the beginning of SH...

 

At any rate, that all aside, it would make sense that nightblood started out as not an ordinary blade. I mean, if you are going to use that much breath, one might as well find a good receptacle. What nightblood was exactly before awakening is sort of speculation. I personally find it unlikely that he was a shardblade (nightblood has certain inconsistencies with a shardblade, for example the bonding methods, as well as the fact that he cannot change form or be summoned or dispelled). Plus I feel that the breath-gained sentience and the dead spren both in one blade would have strange effects. However, I wouldn't be remotely surprised if nightblood was inspired by stories vasher heard of sprenblades on roshar. Maybe nightblood was initially just a masterwork sword but otherwise normal. Maybe it was a hemalurgic spike (that would certainly be interesting though also a lot of worldhopping, especially since hemalurgy has never been widely known to people). Maybe nightblood was even made from some kind of invested substance (a god metal or a manifestation of some other shard's investiture). Hard to really say.

 

One interesting thought though... When Szeth first sees nightblood, his immediate reaction is to note that the black mist looks like stormlight but dark. This might just be a manifestation of breath shoved into metal with an aggressive command... Or maybe it is evidence of another shard's touch on the blade. So it isn't impossible that nightblood bears some other kind of undisclosed investiture.

Maybe Vasher even isn't aware of this other investiture, since he wasn't the only one who made nightblood.

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To this day I wonder why people still think metal is invested, because we've been told repeatedly that it's not . . .

We also know that Nightblood was intentionally forged as a shardblade.

Edited by natc
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My question is where Shashara and Vasher got enough breaths to awaken nightblood and the phantoms. Maybe they used Stormlight.

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My question is where Shashara and Vasher got enough breaths to awaken nightblood and the phantoms. Maybe they used Stormlight.

 

By WoB (which isn't yet up on theoryland, I think) Vasher - as Zahel - tried using stormlight to awaken on Roshar, he hasn't figured out how yet.

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 You know, that might be why metal is so hard to awaken. Apart from metals role in unlocking allomancy and the like, the mistborn trilogy also implies metal has some level of inherent investiture. So does the beginning of SH...

This is not true, on Scadrial Metals are Focus and they are gateway for power (like if them are in resonance with Investiture there)... this is the reason for example of the Metal-Blind of Ruin and Preservation.

 

But for example on Roshar the metal itself has not this kind of function.

 

Metal and Stone are hard to awaken because the Awekening simulate the life and it's more easy to awaken something, more the object is near to the "life"... Metal and Stone was never "Alive" and therefore are the hardest (not Invested) object to Awaken.

For example I remeber a WoB about a "Guy soulcasted to Stone, that was more easy to Awaken than ordinary Stone because it's something once living"

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