Oathbringer

Night blood's forging

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I don't know if this has been discussed before, but the forging of Nightblood seems suspicious. Yes, Vasher and Shashara used about 1000 breaths in awakening Nightblood, but by Vasher's own admission it shouldn't have resulted in a sentient sword. Further as I said in a different post (Why is Nightblood overpowered) for such an important project would Vahser and Shashara really use an ordinary blade? No. As has been stated before (copper mind) Vasher had traveled to Roshar previously and seen a (likely alive) shardblade, an inspiration for Nightblood. 

 

Theory: Nightblood was forged from some sort of invested sword, like a shardblade. In other words, they awakened a sword that had already been affected by magic of another shard--feruchemist storage, deceased shardblade, elantrian magic, etc.

 

This could be crazy but even Vasher and Shashara were surprised at the results so it seems like something else happened. It would make sense that Hoid was involved somehow (he's always involved in whatever's important) either giving them a shardblade or...Hoid tends to nudge the actions of others. 

 

Personally I like the idea of a deceased shardblade, the infusion of breaths could've revived the spren--to an extent--regaining sentience but bound by its command. Perhaps Nightblood could change shape even, he's never tried, being out of his sheath just once on the record.

 

Thoughts?

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They were trying to copy Shardblades, which they had already seen. So no, it wasn't a Shardblade that they awakened.

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It would be highly unlikely that they could awaken an already invested object. Investiture interferes with other investiture. I think the thing to really focus on as to why Nightblood is so powerful is the strength of the command he had. For starters it is a very direct and yet extremely ambiguous command "Destroy Evil". Also intent is maybe the most important part of using investiture. I suspect that when we learn more about Shashara in "Nightblood" we will find out there was a lot more going on with the command than what is at face value.

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Awakening metal is just a really funky business. I seem to recall that Vasher (?) or whoever awakened the said had to be at the 9th heightening to even attempt this.

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They were trying to copy Shardblades, which they had already seen. So no, it wasn't a Shardblade that they awakened.

Wait. Was this confirmed? I didn't know any WoB's saying Vasher was a world-hopper before returning...

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Nobody said anything about Vasher being a worldhopper, but he was hardly the only person involved in the project . . .

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Wait. Was this confirmed? I didn't know any WoB's saying Vasher was a world-hopper before returning...

Nothing about being a World-hopper before returing, but:

 

Questioner: I have a question about Nightblood.  I think I heard that--  Something you said in a Q&A that it is related to aShardblade, or was a Shardblade?

 

Brandon: Yeah… So Nightblood.  Vasher visited Roshar, saw Shardblades, came back and tried to make one.  With what he knew of his magic.  That’s the short version of it.  Kind of simplifies things, but yes

 

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I'm late to this thread, but another quick thing would be that Vasher is almost certainly not old enough to have traveled to Roshar when Shardblades were still living spren. The period when the Knights Radiant were active was thousands of years before when Stormlight takes place, and the first Returned, Vo, only Returned something like 600 years before Warbreaker (The book, not Vasher).

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I'm late to this thread, but another quick thing would be that Vasher is almost certainly not old enough to have traveled to Roshar when Shardblades were still living spren. The period when the Knights Radiant were active was thousands of years before when Stormlight takes place, and the first Returned, Vo, only Returned something like 600 years before Warbreaker (The book, not Vasher).

Probably Vasher saw only a Deadblade.

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I'm late to this thread, but another quick thing would be that Vasher is almost certainly not old enough to have traveled to Roshar when Shardblades were still living spren. The period when the Knights Radiant were active was thousands of years before when Stormlight takes place, and the first Returned, Vo, only Returned something like 600 years before Warbreaker (The book, not Vasher).

But do we know when Recreance happened?

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But do we know when Recreance happened?

We have not a exact timeframe, but the Recreance happened before the Hierocracy end the Hierocracy ended 700 year before the books.

Therefore when Vo returned, the Recreance was already happened.

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Do we know what kind of sword Nightblood was BEFORE he was awakened? I realize Brandon said that he went and tried to "make" one. Is it possible that Nightblood started off as a "dead" shardblade that Vasher TOOK from Roshar? Do we have any info anywhere on if there are... I don't even know how to say it... "voidspren" shardblades? Odiumblades? Voidblades? Could he have invested his breaths into a "broken" spren blade and that's where the semi-intellect comes from?  Tell me if these are stupid questions, I don't think I've posted here before. But Nightblood just seems like he will be such a big deal near the end of things.

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We have not a exact timeframe, but the Recreance happened before the Hierocracy end the Hierocracy ended 700 year before the books.

Therefore when Vo returned, the Recreance was already happened.

 

 

Do we know the timeframe?  Doesn't Roshar have a shorter year than Nalthis?

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Do we know the timeframe?  Doesn't Roshar have a shorter year than Nalthis?

We know only Roshar have 500 day in a Year, but no information about Nalthis's years.

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Do we know what kind of sword Nightblood was BEFORE he was awakened? I realize Brandon said that he went and tried to "make" one. Is it possible that Nightblood started off as a "dead" shardblade that Vasher TOOK from Roshar? Do we have any info anywhere on if there are... I don't even know how to say it... "voidspren" shardblades? Odiumblades? Voidblades? Could he have invested his breaths into a "broken" spren blade and that's where the semi-intellect comes from?  Tell me if these are stupid questions, I don't think I've posted here before. But Nightblood just seems like he will be such a big deal near the end of things.

 

As I mentioned early in this thread, Investiture interferes with Investiture so it is extremely unlikely that Nightblood is an awakened dead Shardblade. Even dead, a Shardblade is very invested... I suspect awakening one would take quite a bit more than a 1000 breaths.

Edited by Iron Eyes
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Let me say this again. Vasher was trying to copy Shardblades when he made Nightblood. So there is no chance that Nightblood was already a Shardblade when he was awakened. And it would take way more than 1000 Breaths to awaken something as heavily invested as a Shardblade anyway.

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Investiture implies intelligence; this is a pattern consistent throughout the Cosmere. It's not a perfect relationship, but it's quite apparent that the more Investiture you get, the more your mind is expanded.

 

So Nightblood becoming sentient seems more or less to be a side-effect of the massive amount of Breaths poured into the sword, and any Awakened object created with that much power would likely also have sentience.

 

Just my own speculation, of course.

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Investiture implies intelligence; this is a pattern consistent throughout the Cosmere. It's not a perfect relationship, but it's quite apparent that the more Investiture you get, the more your mind is expanded.

 

So Nightblood becoming sentient seems more or less to be a side-effect of the massive amount of Breaths poured into the sword, and any Awakened object created with that much power would likely also have sentience.

 

Just my own speculation, of course.

 

But then why put so much extra Breaths into Nightblood than the other metals that Vasher's Awakened? Specifically to gain sentience? In which case how did Vasher come into contact with a SprenBlade rather than a DeadBlade which is far more likely? Or were the extra Breaths an attempt at getting the whole soul-cutting feature, and sentience came as an accident?

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But then why put so much extra Breaths into Nightblood than the other metals that Vasher's Awakened? Specifically to gain sentience? In which case how did Vasher come into contact with a SprenBlade rather than a DeadBlade which is far more likely? Or were the extra Breaths an attempt at getting the whole soul-cutting feature, and sentience came as an accident?

 

What other metal things has Vasher Awakened? Your Command is what determines the amount of Breath drawn, and you can't really control that. Perhaps the other Commands Vasher tried on metal never required as many Breaths. (WoB is that uplifting something takes a LOT of Investiture affixed to their soul.)

 

Nightblood was created specifically to try for a type IV (I think?) entity. But the command was "destroy evil", not "be totally sapient", so it's unclear whether the visualization of the Command included sentience, or it was a side-effect (albeit a planned one).

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What other metal things has Vasher Awakened? Your Command is what determines the amount of Breath drawn, and you can't really control that. Perhaps the other Commands Vasher tried on metal never required as many Breaths. (WoB is that uplifting something takes a LOT of Investiture affixed to their soul.)

 

Nightblood was created specifically to try for a type IV (I think?) entity. But the command was "destroy evil", not "be totally sapient", so it's unclear whether the visualization of the Command included sentience, or it was a side-effect (albeit a planned one).

 

Technically, I don't think we know for sure that he has awakened metal. It is strongly implied that Shashara awakened Nightblood.

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In the prologue Vasher remarks as having Awakened other metal objects.

 


Even during the height of his power, Vasher himself had only managed to Awaken metal on a few select occasions.

 

A few select occasions is definitely more than one.

Edited by Blaze1616
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The Command "destroy Evil" probably used many Breath more than commands like "take that".

Maybe Vasher in the previous "tests" never tried to uses Command of that level of complessity (and Breath needed).

Edited by Yata
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In the prologue Vasher remarks as having Awakened other metal objects.

 

 

A few select occasions is definitely more than one.

 

I stand completely corrected. Thanks Blaze :-)

 

Upvote for you senor.

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In order to destroy evil, one has to have the ability to understand/conceptualize what evil is/means.  So, I believe that is why nightblood gained some amount of sapience, that way it has the ability to fulfill its command (which is why it took so many breaths).

Edited by tobar14
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