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[Bands Spoilers] No apology from Harmony?


mattig89ch

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For those who didn't follow my first post on this in my Shadows of self thread, I commented how Harmony seemed messed up.  Mainly for what he did to Wax.  First allowing a Kandra to seduce him, then tricked him into killing her.  And, at no point during this, really messed up series of events, did he come clean/apologize/try to make it right.

 

In this book, we don't see harmony's servants (the kandra), who have a direct line to harmony, apologize.  Heck, they didn't even acknowledge that what happened was wrong in any way.  Maybe they don't see the need to apologize, as they didn't get bleeder to seduce him, then trick him into killing the woman he loved.  But when the first guy, who interupts the wedding, mentions it he refereed to it as if it were somehow Wax's fault.

 

Then, we our hero died, instead of saying something like "I'm sorry it had to be done, and I'm sorry I manipulated you like that" he asks how long wax is going to hate himself for having to pull that trigger.  During this conversation, I got the impression that harmony saying saying something like 'you need to forgive yourself and move on'.  Without any nods to what happened as being a bad situation, or wrong.

 

So, does anyone else think that harmony might be a few fries short of a happy meal?

Edited by mattig89ch
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Harmony has the benefit of being a god and not bound to the same perspective while simultaneously at the deficit of being stuck. I don't think Harmony is crazy so much as he's trapped between his two forces and Whatever Is To Come. He knows that Something is out there and is going to start/has started to gun for him. Wax is one of the pieces he's moving. He's sorry to play that game, but needs must when the Cosmere drives. 

Also, I think Sazed has some perspective on lost loves. I think he called Wax out because the greater hate in Wax's heart was for Wax himself. 
 

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The entire conversation was Harmony saying that he tries not to interfere, which is shown in the fact that he did not stop Lessie and Wax from falling in love with each other. Lessie was originally supposed to watch over Wax and make sure he doesn't die. Harmony never ordered her to seduce him. In fact when they fall in love Harmony suggests against it, but again does not force them. Finally Harmony wants Wax to go back to Elendel but again, does not force. There is WoB that Bloody Tan was not controlled by Harmony. So Lessie's death was not arranged by Harmony. Finally the only time he considered controlling Lessie was when she became a homicidal maniac. If anything it is Harmony's non-interference that Wax has an issue with, to which Harmony replies asking Wax how much is he to interfere? Where is the line? Down that path leads to ultimate control and loss of free will. A point which Wax eventually relents to. Finally Harmony points out that had Wax known it was Lessie, he would not have been able to pull the trigger, the very action that after this conversation, Wax admits had to be done. It is then Harmony attempts to heal Wax's sense of self guilt and pain over blaming himself for Lessie's death. For when Wax had blamed Harmony, he was in fact blaming himself for not being able to figure out some other way to save her. For her not to die. So at least in my opinion, Harmony has nothing to apologize for. 

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I need to look over shadows of self again.  But, from what I remember, it wasn't harmonies idea to seduce wax, but he gave his blessing at (insert bleeders kandra name here) suggestion.  Then, when (insert bleeders kandra name here) refused to convince wax to head back to elendel, harmony took direct control of her and set it up to where she would be shot by Wax's bullet.

 

I have a theory post in shadows of self to where bloody tan might acutally be a kandra.  But thats neither here nor there.

 

Getting forced by harmony to do something she really didn't want to do (convince wax to head back to elendel), drove her up the wall.  That is what got her to remove one of her spikes.  And that spike removal is what drove her to try and destroy harmonies "control" over the people of elendel.

 

Harmony wanted wax back in elendel after being hardened by the roughs.  And he choose to do this, by forcing him to shoot Lessie.  Then, withheld the fact that it was lessie until she died in his arms a second time.  I'm not saying it wasn't necessary, and I'm not going so far as to say that it was unavoidable.  That might have been the least bad of all the possibilities, but it doesn't make it a good outcome.

 

Then we see those that have a direct line to harmony, act so dismissively of what happened.  And even going so far as to make it seem like it was wax's fault that it happened.

 

Finally we see harmony talk with wax about what happened, and the only thing I saw (which I might be wrong about, I'm only human after all) was him saying 'stop hating yourself'.  It got him to move on from that day, sure.  But I would have expected some expression of remorse for manipulating him like that.

 

It kinda makes me feel like Harmony is a psycopath.  A genuine lack of remorse that he has to mess with peoples feelings like that, in order to get an outcome he needs.  And a willingness to kill friends or loved ones to get the outcomes he wants.

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I need to look over shadows of self again.  But, from what I remember, it wasn't harmonies idea to seduce wax, but he gave his blessing at (insert bleeders kandra name here) suggestion.  Then, when (insert bleeders kandra name here) refused to convince wax to head back to elendel, harmony took direct control of her and set it up to where she would be shot by Wax's bullet.

 

I have a theory post in shadows of self to where bloody tan might acutally be a kandra.  But thats neither here nor there.

 

Getting forced by harmony to do something she really didn't want to do (convince wax to head back to elendel), drove her up the wall.  That is what got her to remove one of her spikes.  And that spike removal is what drove her to try and destroy harmonies "control" over the people of elendel.

 

Harmony wanted wax back in elendel after being hardened by the roughs.  And he choose to do this, by forcing him to shoot Lessie.  Then, withheld the fact that it was lessie until she died in his arms a second time.  I'm not saying it wasn't necessary, and I'm not going so far as to say that it was unavoidable.  That might have been the least bad of all the possibilities, but it doesn't make it a good outcome.

 

Then we see those that have a direct line to harmony, act so dismissively of what happened.  And even going so far as to make it seem like it was wax's fault that it happened.

 

Finally we see harmony talk with wax about what happened, and the only thing I saw (which I might be wrong about, I'm only human after all) was him saying 'stop hating yourself'.  It got him to move on from that day, sure.  But I would have expected some expression of remorse for manipulating him like that.

 

It kinda makes me feel like Harmony is a psycopath.  A genuine lack of remorse that he has to mess with peoples feelings like that, in order to get an outcome he needs.  And a willingness to kill friends or loved ones to get the outcomes he wants.

Can I ask that you cite where you read those parts because I do not recall reading any of that. Lessie never went to Harmony to suggest seducing Wax. They fell in love organically, despite what her or Harmony wanted. She was to befriend him and keep an eye on him so he isn't killed while bumbling around in the Roughs. Secondly, it is stated right in the book Harmony never took direct control of Lessie prior to the events of Shadows of Self. The only time he did was after she became a homicidal manic, and Wax put the bullet through her skull as a spike. Everything you have stated is your own interpretation of the narrative. As I said there is a WoB that Bloody Tan was not controlled by Harmony. It is also stated that Harmony did not control Lessie to get shot in the past. So I am unsure where you are getting this information and claiming it as fact. 

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probably you should check sos again. I don't think it was made 100% clear, but I got the impression that the shooting of paalm by wax wasn't harmony intention. And harmmony apologized in bom. No, I had issues with how harmony acted after sos, but I am mostly fine now. Although I still think he should recruit people by having kandras reveal themselves to them and offer them a job rather than manipulating. See, this time he sent some kandra to ask, and all went well. when people are on your side, asking nicely generally works better  than manipulating.

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My citations would be all from the audible versions of the book.  But I think they're from when Tensoon meets wax on the bridge, after he shot her and she killed herself.

 

Like I said, its been a bit of time since I finished it. Edit: and I've read other things in the mean time, so its not as fresh in my head /edit

 

Would you prefer chapters, scenes, or would you like me to try and paraphrase the lines?

Edited by mattig89ch
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My citations would be all from the audible versions of the book.  But I think they're from when Tensoon meets wax on the bridge, after he shot her and she killed herself.

 

Like I said, its been a bit of time since I finished it. Edit: and I've read other things in the mean time, so its not as fresh in my head /edit

 

Would you prefer chapters, scenes, or would you like me to try and paraphrase the lines?

Scenes as with certain words or sentences, so then I can pull it up quickly on my kindle for reference. Thank you. I will try to locate it with the information you have given me so far. 

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New post due to new info, found the scene you were referring to. Given you were going on audible and it has been a while, recalling it incorrectly is understandable. here is the direct quote:

 

Wax speaking ""He sent her to me, Marasi. He sent a kandra to seduce me."

 

"No," Marasi said, firm. "He sent a bodyguard to watch over you in the Roughs. I spoke to TenSoon. The seduction was her idea. And yours, presumably."

 

"Harmony knew," Wax said hoarsely. "He saw what would happen"

 

"Maybe He didn't"

 

"Then what kind of God is He? What good is a God like Him, Marasi? Tell me that."

 

So as you can see, Marasi said it was Lessie (Bleeder) and Wax who seduced each other by falling for each other. Harmony never entered into the matter. 

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No worries.

 

Also, I have no trouble being wrong (it happens alot).  I'll have to start going over the chapters tonight, and work on getting you the exact scenes.

 

One last thing, I'm not sure if its ever said exactly that harmony forced her to be in front of the bullet.  I think it was said that harmony forced her to do something she really didn't want to do.  And then that harmony forced her to convince wax to head back to the city.  But, if memory serves, its re-iterated during the fight on the bridge, then while hes sobbing on the bridge after its all said and done.

 

Like I said, when you read that novel once, head over to 3 dresden file novels, and then a lost stars novel, things tend to fade.

 

Edit: thats from the party afterward, right?

Edited by mattig89ch
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No worries.

 

Also, I have no trouble being wrong (it happens alot).  I'll have to start going over the chapters tonight, and work on getting you the exact scenes.

 

One last thing, I'm not sure if its ever said exactly that harmony forced her to be in front of the bullet.  I think it was said that harmony forced her to do something she really didn't want to do.  And then that harmony forced her to convince wax to head back to the city.  But, if memory serves, its re-iterated during the fight on the bridge, then while hes sobbing on the bridge after its all said and done.

 

Like I said, when you read that novel once, head over to 3 dresden file novels, and then a lost stars novel, things tend to fade.

 

Edit: thats from the party afterward, right?

Yep that is after. The scene on the bridge is just TenSoon saying that Harmony sent Lessie to be a body guard, that he didn't know who Bleeder was till a few days ago and wasn't allowed to tell Wax when he did know because Harmony foresaw a disaster if Wax was told who he hunted. As to forcing Lessie, he urged her to get Wax to go back to Elendel. But he never took control of her and made her. She was always a dutiful kandra that did anything she was told. So Harmony pushing her on the matter felt forced to her. But he did not coerce her. And as I said he did not make Bloody Tan grab her as he did. He may not have stopped it, but he did not make it happen. Lessie kept saying that if Harmony knew everything how could he let them fall in love, or her get killed, but in Bands of Mourning he explains how although he can see the future it is difficult, and what level of intervention is allowable? Lessie was deranged at that point due to the alien spike's influence. So much so that when she passed, she was at peace with Harmony and just asked him to watch out for Wax. 

 

edit: i can quote those sections too if you like, i only paraphrased it because it is a long scene

Edited by Pathfinder
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Far enough, I'll have to give shadows of self another run through.

 

Thanks for the feedback all!

 

Question to the mods, after I do another run through, and if I find that this topic still has merrit should I resurect this thread or start a new one?

Edited by mattig89ch
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