fyodor Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 So on p. 290-291 (Kindle) Allik is talking about Metalborn. WRT to the sovereign he says: "Sure did. Saved us, bless him. Taught us that the Metalborn were pieces of god, each of them, though we didn't have any of those at first..." Later, he says in response to Wax's question about creating the medallions. "If we have the Metalborn to do so and the Excisors, yes. The Excisors are gifts that the Sovereign made for us" Any thoughts on how the South Scadrialians gained metalborn, particularly Feruchemists? I assume that they, like pre-TLR folks, had some capacity for allomancy once they learned how to snap, but where would the Feruchemy come from, absent Terris blood? We know that the Sovereign (who I assume to be Kelsier) had all the powers. Did the just have a bunch of kids? We know that spiked people pass their allomancy along? Did the bring a bunch of spikes and let the spiked people have kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattig89ch Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 good question. To me, the excisors were spikes. I was under the impression that they were using the spikes to create compounders for their medalians. Though as to where they got original metal born, that I couldn't say. Maybe the lord ruler did have a harem, and a bunch of children as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Please keep thread titles for the new books very very vague. The original title of this thread spoils that the book involves the Southern Scadrians. I have retitled it to be more vague. We're almost past the strict spoiler period, but we're not quite there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 i doubt the "excisors" would be allomancers. if they were, he wouldn't have referred to the metalborn before. they could be spikes. maybe metalborns are very rare on south scadrial, but when they are born they are constantly protected and they are spiked before death, and their spikes are then passed around, so that allomancy keeps going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Would it be possible for one to have metalborn children if the child was conceived while they were temporarily given power by medallions, maybe? I mean, they tap feruchemical brass constantly when they don't need to translate things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyodor Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 I guess it depends on whether tapping investiture rewrites your spiritual DNA temporarily. Children of inquisitors inherit their parents capacity for allomancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Kandra Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 If Kelsier brought followers from Elendel, some of them could have been Terris and thus had the Ferring gene... They could've then had babies too. We know that "He [Kelsier] gave us devices, and started the Firemothers and Firefathers, who live to fill these medallions so the rest of us may leave our homes and survive in this too-cold world.” (291) So, we can assume that these people are brass ferrings (and possibly Twinborn Soother, because that would be useful, in this case)...I think that from the text, it suggests that the Excisors might be related to nicrosil. Maybe Kelsier filled/made a bunch of nicrosil metalminds via Compounding, and they use those nicrosil metalminds to create metalminds that anyone can use. Or the Excisors are some weird device that...somehow can create blank nicrosil metalminds. I don't think it's related to Hemalurgy. It smells like a weird Allomantic/Feruchemic device, more than anything else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lDanielHolm Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 We don't know enough about what creates Feruchemists to formulate much of a theory. We know that Allomancers existed (though were extremely rare) before the Lord Ruler--Alendi was a Bronze Misting, a Seeker, which is how he could feel the mists--and that the Lord Ruler used the beads of lerasium he found at the Well of Ascension to create the first Mistborn. Perhaps Feruchemists exist outside of Terris as well, in the same manner, and they never discover their abilities because they have no one to teach them. If the Sovereign taught them in the south, they could be who create the Excisors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFencer Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Mistwraiths. Restored mistwariths. That's my theory at least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyodor Posted February 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Maybe, but Allik said that they didn't have metalborn before the sovereign, not that they didn't know of their abilities. Could be same difference, I guess. We don't know enough about what creates Feruchemists to formulate much of a theory. We know that Allomancers existed (though were extremely rare) before the Lord Ruler--Alendi was a Bronze Misting, a Seeker, which is how he could feel the mists--and that the Lord Ruler used the beads of lerasium he found at the Well of Ascension to create the first Mistborn. Perhaps Feruchemists exist outside of Terris as well, in the same manner, and they never discover their abilities because they have no one to teach them. If the Sovereign taught them in the south, they could be who create the Excisors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyodor Posted February 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Did they say that the Sovereign brought followers? It looked like he was alone in the flashback. If Kelsier brought followers from Elendel, some of them could have been Terris and thus had the Ferring gene... They could've then had babies too. We know that "He [Kelsier] gave us devices, and started the Firemothers and Firefathers, who live to fill these medallions so the rest of us may leave our homes and survive in this too-cold world.” (291) So, we can assume that these people are brass ferrings (and possibly Twinborn Soother, because that would be useful, in this case)...I think that from the text, it suggests that the Excisors might be related to nicrosil. Maybe Kelsier filled/made a bunch of nicrosil metalminds via Compounding, and they use those nicrosil metalminds to create metalminds that anyone can use. Or the Excisors are some weird device that...somehow can create blank nicrosil metalminds. I don't think it's related to Hemalurgy. It smells like a weird Allomantic/Feruchemic device, more than anything else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isilel Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 (edited) I have decided to ressurect this thread because I have just completed my first re-read of all Mistborn material and I have the same questions as have been already asked here and some additional thoughts about these inssues: On 2.2.2016 at 5:08 PM, fyodor said: Any thoughts on how the South Scadrialians gained metalborn, particularly Feruchemists? I assume that they, like pre-TLR folks, had some capacity for allomancy once they learned how to snap, but where would the Feruchemy come from, absent Terris blood? Right. And there is a good reason to think that the Terrismen, of all the other humans on Scadrial, had Feruchemy because the shardpools of both Shards were located in the old pre-TFE Terris, and their people were exposed to concentrated Investiture from both of them over time. Now, Harmony's pool(s?) may be somewhere in the South now, but 300 years is too short a time for it to change people, I think. Also, we know that Southern Scadrians only have Ferrings, not the full Feruchemists like the Terrismen used to have. Quote We know that the Sovereign (who I assume to be Kelsier) had all the powers. Did the just have a bunch of kids? We know that spiked people pass their allomancy along? Did the bring a bunch of spikes and let the spiked people have kids? Yes, I also thought that he may have put all these left-over Inquisitor spikes mentioned in M:TSH to good use in order to quickly give some initial Metallic arts to the Southern Scadrians. The problem is - why would any Inquisitors have F-brass spikes? This is the ability that was needed most urgently in the South and also the one that wouldn't have been prioritized either by TLR or by Ruin for the Inquisitors, because it was fairly useless for their goals. Yet, how could Kelsier have "started Firemothers and Firefathers" without at least a few Brass Ferrings? Breeding Ferring children and raising them until they could do it would have taken far too long for the southerners to survive. Could he have provided all the heat medallions just by himself, until the children were ready? He did have Compounding to help, if he indeed became a Fullborn somehow. But where did he get enough Nicrosil? The southern village seen at the end of BoM didn't seem particularly technologically advanced. In fact, if the southerners _had_ been much more advanced than TFE, they could have survived without Kelsier. On 21.2.2016 at 10:03 PM, Jazzy Kandra said: If Kelsier brought followers from Elendel, some of them could have been Terris and thus had the Ferring gene... They could've then had babies too. The Southern Scadrian legends don't mention any followers, only the Sovereign himself. It would have been logical for him to sire lots of children and provide the Metalborn for the southeners that way, along with the progeny of the people upon whom he bestowed the Inquisitor spikes, maybe. That would explain why they only have Ferrings, just as the Basin folks do - Allomantic and Feruchemist heritage colliding. But would Sanderson go there? He did have Tindwyl as "the mother of Terris", so maybe? Quote I think that from the text, it suggests that the Excisors might be related to nicrosil. I am still unsure if it makes sense for everybody to be able to tap unkeyed Nicrosil metalminds. IMHO, the Excisors are metalminds made from the "lost" godmetals(s) and/or their alloys and they somehow allow the creation of unsealed metalminds, that, indeed can be used universally. Which is why they are crucial for the medallion production and why the southerners can't make any more of them than what Kelsier left them. Some other thoughts - when changing and re-building everything on Scadrial in such a minute detail that he restored extinct species and even removed the ash adaptations from the already existing people, how could Sazed have missed the southerners? Also, does Scadrial have an axial tilt that kept the southern pole further away from the sun than the northern one, after Rashek changed orbits? Since they survived TFE without Ashmounts of their own and didn't burn up when Vin rashly removed ash from the atmosphere? Oddly enough, we didn't see any healing medallions - do they even exist? Allik certainly didn't offer any when Marasi was wounded, nor did he lament not having access to them. South Scadrian Metalborn aren't going to like learning that their abilities are much more common and not properly revered in the North. They'll try to protect their massive privileges, somehow. And as they are likely the ones who guard and handle the Excisors... hm. I sense a big danger there. Edited February 25, 2018 by Isilel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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