[Bands Spoilers] The Set and Trell

[Kelek's Breath]

It could be that the Svrakiss are a combination of Dominion/Odium Investiture

Count me in the camp that thinks Dominion might have something to do with this.

Elantris spoliers

Red is the colour of the Fjordell priest armor, soulstone has flecks of red in it, soulstamps are red, and svrakiss have red eyes. So Red is definitely associated with Sel and possibly Dominion. (Making the leap of logic that Forgery is a Dominion investiture because it grants the Forger Dominion over the item/person).

 

SA spoilers

On Roshar, besides the red eyes of Voidbringers (and the Dustbringers), we don't see any other mention of the prominence of Red. The moons are 3 colours, blue, green and violet, and as per WoB they were artificially placed, so it would make sense that they are of the colours of the 3 Gods. I am going to guess that blue is Honor (colour of the Windrunners) and so that leaves violet and green. And remember that when violet light reflects on things it shows them differently (Syl looking different when she was hovering beside a violet sphere in TWoK). So maybe violet for Odium. And remember, the darkest time of the night is between blue and the violet moons.

 Elantris spoliers

By the time of Mistborn 2, it may be that Fjordell (men of Red) and another empire (even the Elantrians as the men of Gold-gold skinned that is) have joined forces and have conquered the entire planet and have started to move beyond their planet.

 

Sorry for putting everything in spoliers, just not sure what is allowed or not.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Kelek's Breath

[EddyRed]

this may be completely off track (or already confirmed), but what if Autonomy's intent isn't self-sufficiency, but more like in a mechanical system, or a bodies autonomous system. this could have already been confirmed/jossed, but as a random thought could this be a possibility?

[Pathfinder]

Count me in the camp that thinks Dominion might have something to do with this.

Elantris spoliers

Red is the colour of the Fjordell priest armor, soulstone has flecks of red in it, soulstamps are red, and svrakiss have red eyes. So Red is definitely associated with Sel and possibly Dominion. (Making the leap of logic that Forgery is a Dominion investiture because it grants the Forger Dominion over the item/person).

 

SA spoilers

On Roshar, besides the red eyes of Voidbringers (and the Dustbringers), we don't see any other mention of the prominence of Red. The moons are 3 colours, blue, green and violet, and as per WoB they were artificially placed, so it would make sense that they are of the colours of the 3 Gods. I am going to guess that blue is Honor (colour of the Windrunners) and so that leaves violet and green. And remember that when violet light reflects on things it shows them differently (Syl looking different when she was hovering beside a violet sphere in TWoK). So maybe violet for Odium. And remember, the darkest time of the night is between blue and the violet moons.

 Elantris spoliers

By the time of Mistborn 2, it may be that Fjordell (men of Red) and another empire (even the Elantrians as the men of Gold-gold skinned that is) have joined forces and have conquered the entire planet and have started to move beyond their planet.

 

Sorry for putting everything in spoliers, just not sure what is allowed or not.

When have elantians ever been gold skinned? All I have ever seen is silver/grey. Has there been new information released?

[emailanimal]

I would say yes.  It was Dominions big enemy and the one that killed him.  Much more so than Devotion was.  To the people that think that Odium is too scared of Sazed to be Trell,  he's not creating a direct confrontation.  He's using pawns and diversions to give Sazed a slow death.

 

 It is not even clear that Devotion was an enemy of Dominion. I suspect quite the contrary: one does not preclude the other. They chose to settle on Sel together.

[emailanimal]

 Basing the suspicions that Trell = Dominion on svarkiss is a bit of a fallacy, as svarkiss, as it has been mentioned, were the enemies of Dominion, and most likely, part of Odium's invasion and splintering of Sel's native Shards.  Given what we know about how Odium fights on Roshar, a parallel between the svarkiss and the various Odium-side participants in the Desolation battles is pretty straightforward.

 

 The second issue with the Trell=Dominion theory is that last we checked Dominion was Splintered and did not have a vessel.  Now, a recent WoB said something like "we have not seen a reassembly of a Shard on-screen", which can be interpreted both to support the Trell=Dominion theory (it is possible to reassemble a Shard!), as well as to refute it (there is no reason for us to believe that it is part of the current narrative - if it were, Brandon would have probably just RAFOed the question).

 

Based on this, my personal belief is that this is a flimsy theory. Significantly flimsier than Trell=Autonomy (my personal favorite, albeit with some reservations), and Trell=Odium theories.  It is also possible that Trell equals none of the above, but is something else (a joint construct of Rayse and Bavadin having access to the powers of both, for example).

 

I feel that we won't get closer to figuring this one out until we answer a few more background questions.  For example, the Trell religion (Trelagism) Sazed mentions on multiple occasions in the original Mistborn series has none of "men in red and gold", "kneel in front of Trell", apocalyptic mythos.  Trellism - the whatever Wax&Wayne contemporary cult that shares the outright name of the god with Trelagism, sounds nothing like the religion that worshiped the night and the stars.   

 

The only link between the two that I can find lies in the hints that the Trell-related organizations during Wax&Wayne times are interested in scientific progress (albeit in a "for me, but not for thee" manner), which is consistent with the idea that followers of Trelagism were excellent mathematicians and astronomers.

 

So, one religion or two? If two - why would someone choose specifically Trell - out of 300 possible religions documented on Scadrial - to impersonate?  I have a theory that uses some knowledge from White Sand to support the idea that all of this is consistent with Autonomy trying to meddle with Scadrial affairs.  Using only information publicly available (White Sand graphic novel promo, documented Khriss appearances in recently published work), let's just say that Darkside is a very reasonable place where a religion worshiping Night could arise, and the only Darksider we have so far seen in the books appears to be one of the most knowledgeable and smart, and is, in fact, an actual Scientist with a capital "S".

 

Questions for Brandon:

 

 * Has anyone from Taldain ever reached Scadrial in pre-Final Empire time?

 

 *  Would Khriss recognize any of the religions from Sazed's archives?

 

 And just because I am naturally curious about it:

 

 * Does Hoid (circa Bands of Mourning) know who is responsible for Sazed's "red haze miasma"?

[The Kings Raven]

We have a recent WoB that Autonomy helped Odium splinter Dominion and Devotion. It seems natural that Odium would be paired against Devotion, and Autonomy would be paired against Dominion. So it's more likely that the svrakiss are related to Autonomy instead of Odium. This fits with Bleeder's actions which seem to fulfill the intent of Autonomy

Remember though that Bleeder was not working with the Set. Edwarn says so explicitly in Shadows of Self, it's possible he was lying but Bleeder's motives are so different from the Set's that I'm inclined to believe him.

I think it's likely that both Autonomy and Dominion's agents are active on Scadrial. The Set is Dominion's, Bleeder was Autonomy's.

[the.fulgid]

I think it's likely that both Autonomy and Dominion's agents are active on Scadrial. The Set is Dominion's, Bleeder was Autonomy's.

Resurrecting a somewhat dead topic here, but I think I have to agree with this. I don't think Bleeder and The Set are under the same influence. Bleeder is focused on freeing society and culture from Harmony's influence and control, not unlike what Khriss was trying to do in White Sand with her kingdom. The Set are trying to gain power by sowing chaos and inciting rebellion, which seems to fall in line with what Hrathen did in Duladel. Hrathen is from Fjorden, which I'm pretty certain is influenced by Dominion.

On that note, while we do know that that the unknown metal in SoS came from a known shard, there has been no confirmation that Trell IS that shard. If Odium and Bavadin can work together, what's stopping other shards from doing the same? It's possible that Trell is not influenced by or part of a shard we know, but is working with one we do in order to achieve his own goals in the Cosmere. Kind of an antithesis to Hoid (who we know also isn't part of and does not have any shards).

 

 

Edited for grammatical issues because I don't know how to properly proof read.

Edited March 15, 2016 by the.fulgid

[Prawnsinger]

I do like the theory of Trell = Odium. Sorry if this has been suggested elsewhere but hours of lurking hasn't turned up anything similar that I could find- could it be that the Shades on Threnody are of Odium?

If so, perhaps the Shades are the new 'evil' faceless immortals that, like mistwraiths, have reconnected to their cognitive aspect due to being away from Threnody and whatever it is on that world which influences them to behave the way they usually do. Thoughts?

Edited April 16, 2016 by Prawnsinger

[Orlion Blight]

Something to keep in mind: it seems that only seons and skazes are separate pieces of Devotion and Dominion. As far as I can tell, the remaining splintered portions are combined as the Dor. As a result, I doubt Trell is Dominion...particularly since reassembling him/her in one of the Elantris novels would seem anticlimactic. Such an event like rebuilding a Shard seems better suited to a "main series" like Mistborn is the Stormlight Archive.

Now, that said, that does not rule out a Selian group using Selian magic to further their sinister Selian ends. This would not necessarily contradict WoBs on the subject and have the advantage, to me, of being far more interesting then of Trell ended up being Odium or Autonomy.

[VirtuousTraveller]

This could be completely off base, but I've seen lots of off-base posts in the forums and everyone's awesome about processing through them together! 

 

I'm listening through Elantris again and something jumped out at me from the chapter when 

Hrathen is inside of Elantris "sick" with the fake Shaod, looking up to the night's sky and reflecting on the moon.

 

It seems like the moon is an incredibly important part of the ancient Jesker religion, which was all but destroyed by the Fjorden Empire prior to the book's events.  Several characters in the books make a comment along the lines of, "the moon seems like it vanishes from the sky, disappearing to somewhere else, but astronomers have learned that this is just an eclipse."

 

Here's a theory on Trell (formerly an ancient religion like Jesker) - perhaps the moon of Elantris is actually something like a massive Skaze (much larger than average, just like the Stormfather or the Nightwatcher are larger splinters of Honor/Cultivation) that really does disappear and reappear in the sky.  Like seons who can turn down their light to almost unseeable, perhaps this giant skaze communicates information when darkened (so no one can see what it's doing).  Perhaps this moon skaze (calls itself Trell?) was worshiped in the past because it spoke to the inhabitants of the planet at some point.  It commands that the Fjorden destroy the Jesker religion because they might give away the great secret:

 

"That's no moon." LOLOLOLOL

 

White Sand Spoiler (maybe?)

 

Brandon mentioned that Taladin was originally a planet in between two stars with an "odd light" coming from the star on the Darkside of the planet.  We know that Autonomy is on Taladin, so perhaps this moon Skaze of Dominion is communicating with Autonomy through the moon to influence events on Scadrial.  Am I saying the moon of Elantris is the odd light source for the Darkside of Taladin?  Am I suggesting a second skaze or object like it exists over the Darkside of Taladin?  Maybe - it could be a serious stretch and I'm well aware of that.

 

An odd connection of ideas, but there you go!  That's one way I see a possible connection between Dominion and Autonomy.  Skaze would be a really convenient way of communicating over long distances - very helpful for an organization like the Set. While this doesn't have air-tight logic, I feel like there are hints of something true in what I'm trying to say!

 

Destroy this theory, but also help me figure out what I'm seeing in this moon business on Sel...there's something we're not seeing yet about it that seems really important!

Edited May 19, 2016 by VirtuousTraveller

[Pathfinder]

Skaze are the opposite of Seons in appearance. Seons emit light, Skaze act like a blackholeish as in they absorb light. So you would not see the moon if it was a skaze. That would be a different matter if it was a seon.