[M:Secret History Spoilers] One-Eye Spike Man

[CaptainRyan]

Just to confirm - thanks to this novella we can safely say that Spook is the one who is viewed as the savior of the Southern Scadrians? That Spook used hemalurgy, at the behest of Kelsier, to prolong his own life and to help search for a "new string" for Kelsier?

[TheOneKEA]

Just to confirm - thanks to this novella we can safely say that Spook is the one who is viewed as the savior of the Southern Scadrians? That Spook used hemalurgy, at the behest of Kelsier, to prolong his own life and to help search for a "new string" for Kelsier?

I think that it is quite likely. My current belief is that Spook was cognitively and spiritually worn out and wanted to move on Beyond, and Kelsier used some knowledge gleaned from somewhere about Hemalurgy to re-anchor himself in the Physical Realm and inhabit Spook's body as a possessor once Spook had died. It's even possible that Harmony expended a portion of the Ruin Shard's Investiture to make this possible, although I'm willing to bet that it may not have been done willingly.

[Scriptorian]

The question, though, is that if it's Spooks physical body, why did it have the Survivor's scars? My instinct is that Kelsier somehow managed to get a new body. As an aside, the one-eyed-spike imagery is both disturbing and awesome.

[+Authweight]

I'm all about Spook still being alive, but the timing is off. I think that it makes more sense that eye-spike man is Kelsier. He has the scars, and there's no mention of Spook having an eye-spike at any point in his rule. If my understanding of the timeline is correct, the visit to the south would have been right in the middle of Spook's rule, and I feel it would have been hard to hide a giant spike in his face.

[FeatherWriter]

I went into this book 100% convinced that the Sovereign was Marsh and I am still not entirely convinced that he isn't, having finished. Having only one spiked eye is too big of a coincidence for it not to be Marsh.

 

If anyone remembers, it was a minor detail at the end of HoA, but Vin pulled out one of Marsh's eye spikes. She was actually reaching down for the other one when she popped and Ascended. Marsh spends the entire fight with Elend with a hole in his head. Elend comments that he's able to see right through it.

 

We know that Inquisitors can live while missing spikes, as long as it's not the lynchpin, and I think it's likely that the Sovereign is Marsh after he decided to tap gold and heal his eye, rather than sticking the spike back in. Now, as of Secret History, I think it's safe to say Kelsier is also somehow involved in the process. Seeing as Kelsier was able to talk to Spook via an earring, I'd guess that Marsh's spikes are enough to let Kell talk with him and or possibly control him. Maybe they share the body occasionally, with Marsh handing the reins over.

 

Surely Kelsier does not actually possess his own brother against his will. Surely not. Not after what Marsh went through with Ruin. If Kell did anything of the sort, I would never forgive him.

 

Now, worth noting that Marasi does see Marsh's face in AoL and she says that he has two spikes through his head. It's possible that he's made a fake spike, in the same way that Wayne did for the costume, or—Harmony forbid—he might have put it back in. I'd surely hope not though.

[Argent]

Funny, I came out of that book convinced the Sovereign was straight-up Kelsier. No body shenanigans. I admit it sounds a little more plausible that Kelsier possessed a (willing) body, probably anchored to it by the eye spike, than to imagine him actually reconstructing a body, but I can't think of anything that would contradict the latter idea. 

[Sirscott13]

I thought it was marsh too. I read the whole bands of mourning and just assumed marsh was acting for harmony and saving the people to the south. I thought this right up until the last sequence of the epilogue and then reading secret history.

Now I'm not sure what to think.

Is it marsh, is it spook, is it kelsier?

What if it's not that simple.

part of me thinks that all three are alive. With spook and kelsier doing cosmere stuff trying to figure out what they can.

[Natans]

I'm in that the Sovereign are Kelsier train.  

How he did't we don't know, but by what I remember of Cosmere cure power theory, when someone cures himself (in the most extremes case at least) he are, in true, returning his body to a previous "cognition state" or the be more precise he return his body to the "cognitive image that he had of himself" or some such.

This is very peculiar because it can create a situation where one person is able to cure a serious wound but not a little one if that little wound are part of the image that he had of himself. Ex: Kaladin, until now, wasn't able to cure his forehead scar. And Lopen, that in my eyes have a very strong image of himself was a being a complete and functional  was able to cure a lost arm in his childhood. AUTO IMAGE are everything here.

The scar in the Sovereign arms are, to me, a indicative that Kelsier when hijacked the physical realm did't using a similar method, and the auto image of his arms being  scared carried over to new "new body".

I suspect that they used hermalurgy in a dead body to connect Kelsier cognitive self with this body, and when this body received Kelsier cognitive and spiritual webs, the body "turned" in the image  that Kelsier had of himself minus the spikes he used to bind everything together. Kind a forgery, the new body react to make sense of the new cognitive aspect.

Well this is my opinion at least=)
 

Edited January 31, 2016 by Natans

[Sirscott13]

I didn't even consider the cognitive aspect of healing applying. Nice job.

[Ari]

That memory clue seems to point very strongly at someone influenced a lot by Kelsier, if not Kelsier himself.

 

Spook is probably ruled out due to how well-documented his actions would have been as The Lord Mistborn, we'd have heard about it if he spiked his eye.

 

Marsh makes a lot of sense and arguably there are clues to him there when Wayne impersonates him as "death".

 

Kelsier is also a possibility though, especially if he managed to get his cognitive shadow into a spike somehow.

[Ryshadium]

Kelsier was able to take some items from the Physicsl Realm and bring them into the cognitive, correct?

What if he managed to do that with a spike?

[Ari]

Kelsier was able to take some items from the Physicsl Realm and bring them into the cognitive, correct?

What if he managed to do that with a spike?

 

I believe you've misunderstood what he was doing.

 

He was taking the cognitive reflections (the ideal forms, if you will) of abandoned physical items. Like when in Stormlight archive...

Shallan or Jasnah pick up spheres in their own cognitive realm and can use them to talk to items there,

on Scadrial cognitive ideals manifest as balls of mist instead, at least, when they're not evoked into their forms.

 

To date, the only thing we know of that can link a Cognitive being to the Physical realm is a Nahel bond. Kelsier would need to do something similar, however the only thing he has to work with that could carry his bonds to anyone on the physical realm are hemalurgical spikes.

[Ryshadium]

It was late when I read it, and I had already read BoM so I must have misread. I'll still consider it a possibility, as if anyone has the time and fortitude to do the undoable, it's Kelsier.

[Ari]

Now, that said, he could possibly do some interesting things with the cognitive ideal of an abandoned spike that might have odd consequences...

[dyring]

Re March and eyespikes (unable to quote on this forum for whatever reason)

 

He looses one spike, but its replaced. (it says "iron spikes for eyes" in alloy of law for example, plural, chrushed eyesocket yeah, but twin spikes still)

 

Besides, March didnt have the scars on the arms. It seems extremely likely to be Kelsier who found a new body. Especially with the "survive" comment made by him in Waxiliums flashback.

[CaptainRyan]

I'm in that the Sovereign are Kelsier train.  

How he did't we don't know, but by what I remember of Cosmere cure power theory, when someone cure himself (in the most extremes case at least) he are, in true, returning his body to a previous "cognition state" or the be more precise he return his body to the "cognitive image that he had of himself" or some such.

This is very peculiar because it can create a situation where one person is able to cure a serious wound but not a little one if that little wound are part of the image that he had of himself. Ex: Kaladin, until now, wasn't able to cure his forehead scar. And Lopen, that in my eyes have a very strong image of himself was a being a complete and functional  was able to cure a lost arm in his childhood. AUTO IMAGE are everything here.

The scar in the Sovereign arms are, to me, a indicative that Kelsier when hijacked the physical realm did't using a similar method, and his auto image of his arms being  scared carried over to his "new body".

I suspect that they used hermalurgy in a dead body to connect Kelsier cognitive self with this body, and when this body received Kelsier cognitive and spiritual webs, the body "turned" in the image  that Kelsier had of himself minus the spikes he used to bind everything together. Kind a forgery, the new body react to make sense of the new cognitive aspect.

Well this is my opinion at least=)

 

 

Excellent idea. I think this has some merit to it. Have an upvote good forum member!

[fyodor]

I'm on the resurrected Kelsier bandwagon. We know that he was planning to use Hemalurgy to get himself a new physical body.

 

The timing doesn't work for it to be a possessed Spook.

 

I guess it could be Marsh, but (A) this type of wholesale intervention in a new society seems like a better fit for Kelsier ( we don't have any evidence that Marsh understands things like investiture, identity, etc, enough to set up the amulets © the scars on the arm, the "survive" , etc, all seem to point to Kelsier.

[Moogle]

Kelsier's body was eaten by TenSoon, but he could have conceivably convinced gotten a kandra (TenSoon being the obvious one) to re-make it and then disconnect from it. I think the Cognitive Healing thing makes more sense though... or perhaps sticking the Hemalurgical spike with Kelsier inside into the recipient twisted them to have the scars. (If Kelsier even stuck himself in the spike? But I imagine he did something like that?)

[dyring]

It was Oreseur/Lord Reneux who ate Kelsiers body, and he is quite dead.

Edited January 29, 2016 by dyring

[RShara]

I thought Marsh too, but Kelsier makes a lot more sense, since the memory at the end of Bands shows that the person could actually see normally out of the un-spiked eye.  Marsh wouldn't have been able to see at all out of that eye, right?

 

Another thought that occurred to me....Maybe Kelsier's new body is a mistwraith that was never a Kandra?

[Kinolee]

The question, though, is that if it's Spooks physical body, why did it have the Survivor's scars? My instinct is that Kelsier somehow managed to get a new body. As an aside, the one-eyed-spike imagery is both disturbing and awesome.

 

Because part of Kelsier's "identity" in the cognitive realm involves him having scars.  It's the same reason why Sazed can't grow back his genitals.  Your physical body conforms to the identity a person/thing holds of itself, and for Kelsier that includes his scars.

[The Invested Beard]

Because part of Kelsier's "identity" in the cognitive realm involves him having scars.  It's the same reason why Sazed can't grow back his genitals.  Your physical body conforms to the identity a person/thing holds of itself, and for Kelsier that includes his scars.

 

I don't even...I can't remember is that canon that Sazed can't grow back his man parts?

[Kinolee]

I don't even...I can't remember is that canon that Sazed can't grow back his man parts?

 

Well... I confess it isn't my own original idea.  I read it somewhere, but honestly now I don't know where.  It could have been WoB or it could have been a random Reddit comment.

 

The idea that the physical body is representative of our cognitive version of ourselves is, I'm pretty sure, from one of the books though.

[The Invested Beard]

I think all I can come up with on that is Kaladin still having branding scars that stormlight doesn't heal based on his perception of himself.

[Kinolee]

I think all I can come up with on that is Kaladin still having branding scars that stormlight doesn't heal based on his perception of himself.

 

I specifically remember someone using this example when I first learned about it.  I think that might be where I got it from.  Or at least someone explaining it in the same way.

 

Now that I think about it.  I think it was someone asking a question about whether or not Sazed could heal back his frank n' beans and the answer was "no" because of this problem.