Reading Excuses - 2016.01.18 - smgorden - How Old Trahaearn Lost His Eye, part 04

[smgorden]

Last time on How Old Trahaearn Lost His Eye: After his strange meeting with Trahaearn on the hill, the boy and his father return home. The boy puts away their cow, Efa. But there is strange shadows in the barn. A fairy maiden with brambles on her back milked Efa in the dark, and the boy has shooed her away as politely as he knows how. Back at the house, Papa has disappeared! Trahaearn arrives too late, but explains that Papa has been taken by the fairies. He looks after the boy, helps him to be calm in the morning. Declares that they'll go to Fairyland to get his father back!

 

Current submission: two chapters.

CAUGHTHRON'S

UPSTAIRS

 

Desired Feedback: Please continue to let me know how you're feeling about the characters and relationships. You folks are already great at spotting the line-to-line stuff, so keep that coming too! Thank you

[Shrike76]

P7 - "both of kept moving in place" - missing a word

P11 - I love the room full of drawers. And so many keys for so few doors really brings in a sense of mystery.

 

I liked the interaction between Trahaearn and Caughthron, and I liked that the younger two are having a completely different type of conversation while it's happening. I really got a sense of the age difference between the pairs, and of the attitude difference as well.

 

I'd have needed more of a sense of scale when the boy followed Joanna downstairs. The guest in the basement is some sort of giant, but how big is the basement? You mentioned shoes like furniture, but when he stands up I'd expect him to be 30 feet tall? Maybe more? Does he actually fit standing in the basement or is there something strange going on?

 

The first chapters of the book were a little slow, but still well-written and interesting. This chapter is a wonderful follow-up to the disappearance of the father, and carried me right along. I'm a little disappointed that we don't get to hear the conversation between Trahaearn and Caughthron, but I suspect how they say what they say isn't terribly important compared to what the outcome of their conversation is, so I suspect by the next chapter or two I'll admit that missing it was no big deal.

 

The boy's been to Caughthron's before with his father, but he's never met Joanna? It's not a problem, it's just unclear.

 

I'm so looking forward to the next chapter(s) to see where this all leads. I think it's a wonderfully-crafted fantasy so far.

[Mandamon]

pg 4: I like Mrs. Caughthron and her stitching.  I get the feeling there are more folks around the town who know about fairies and magic.

 

pg 7: "Both of kept moving in place"

--misssing a word.

 

pg 11:  This is first time you mention the boy being worried about his Papa.  I was wondering before this how he was dealing with it.

 

pg 13: Joanna's a fairy.  Cool.  I also ike Rip.  Reminds me of the giant from Jack and the Beanstalk, eating bones.

 

Pg 13:  Although Joanna is really spilling the beans about fairyland, Trahaearn, and everything.  There's been a big mystery since the start of the book, and then  Joanna is very blase about it.

 

I liked this chapter a lot.  Good information about Fairyland, great characters with Mrs. Caughthron and Joanna.  However, like last week, it felt really out of place with what I've read before.  The first two submissions were dreamy and a bit unconnected.  This one and last week's very much tell a story.  If the rest of the story is like this, then I don't think the first few chapters are needed at all, or bits could be incorporated into these last two submissions.

[smgorden]

Shrike76:

Regarding the basement and scale. I re-wrote a section of this one before submitting it, and may have lost some cues about the shape of the basement. For the record, the stairs go down a long way, long enough that the ceiling is high and vaulted (a minor point in the grand scheme, but there are fantastical shenanigans available to explain this), with plenty of room for Rip. I'll be sure go back and cue up the scale of the basement prior to the reveal.

 

Regarding Joanna: you know, I remember that question coming up in my mind before, but I never went back to solve. Glad you brought that up, as it needs to be acknowledged.

 

Thank you!

[smgorden]

Mandamon:
The boy and his concern for Papa: he's panicked at the initial event. In the previous submission, Trahaearn takes the boy through a meditation. This calms him, but they head straight to the Caughthron's and his concern sneaks back in at this point. Very little time has passed since the boy woke up.

 

Pg 13:  Although Joanna is really spilling the beans about fairyland, Trahaearn, and everything.  There's been a big mystery since the start of the book, and then  Joanna is very blase about it.

Joanna is matter of fact about fairyland and Trahaearn, but not everything- as will be revealed. Her knowledge and experience have limits, and the story goes beyond them. Also, you didn't comment about your experience of this different in Joanna's attitude compared the mysterious tone of the story. I'm wondering- did this difference bother you greatly? Or is it the suddenness of available information that is jarring compared to expectations of mystery? Let me know how that went for you, specifically, if you would.

Regarding the dreamy beginning; yes, definitely. The beginning will be shortened and re-written, so it matches the tone of the adventure part of the story (where I found my voice, so to speak). Gonna charge through to the end before I go back and do re-writes. Compelled to reach that first finish line. 

Great notes. Thank you!

[Shrike76]

For me, knowing that Joanna comes from fairyland and was brought over by Trahaearn, it makes sense that she behaves differently than what I would expect from a normal human girl, and that she'd be matter-of-fact about things which are weird to the narrator, but perfectly normal to her. I see her acting as some sort of guide to the narrator, and I very much liked her characterization.

[smgorden]

Shrike76- Excellent! That's just what I was hoping you'd say

[Robinski]

Another solid submission with good momentum and an enjoyable, flowing narrative. Your dialogue has a pleasing authenticity to it. I wonder if you read it out loud to test as you write, or if it just comes naturally. Either way, there is very little that I would grumble about (any grumbles below the line in detailed comments). The same applies to your description of characters’ interaction and reaction to each other.

 

The relationship between Joanna and the boy is crackling with the sweet tension of childish awkwardness. It’s very nicely balanced and I enjoyed it very much. I would read on for that alone, but you are concocting an interesting setting and revealing the wonders of fairyland at a nice leisurely pace, with sufficient mystery to make me very keen to read on.

 

Nothing much in the way of grumbles, see details below. More please

 

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Caughthron’s

 

I can’t help thnking of the similarity of the name to Matrim Cauthon’s.

 

“So I had tossed the clean clothes into my Papa’s canvas sack, threw thrown it over my shoulder, and we left together” – Tense seems to shift in the middle of the sentence.

 

Seems to me those are huge hydrangea bushes. Wiki tells me that some species are small trees, but I’ve never seen one bigger than about 2m and certainly not with limbs thick enough to climb.

 

“interruption is a violence” – violation?

 

If you’re going to describe Mrs. Caughthron, I think you need to do it earlier, before the reader forms a wrong impression. Up to the point where she bids them come in, I have her pictured as a homely woman on the plump side.

 

“I’d know the nature of your business before you’d oblige me to contribute obliging you in any way” – for me, this is over-complicated, and I don’t think the grammar is correct.

 

“you really must impress me” – again, the use of the word here seems imprecise. It seems that she means she must believe wholeheartedly in the enterprise, but she doesn’t really say that.

 

“I can hear what you’re thinking to me, sir” – another seeming misdirection, she doesn’t really mean telepathy, does she? Perhaps ‘thinking of me’

 

“like she was excited to get everywhere” – superb description. “It looked like a barn door to me, but just one instead of pair” – this didn’t work so well for me though.

 

“Mind your business, thank you” – excellent. I love her tone with the boy, like she has learned from Mrs. Caughthron that this is how you deal with men-folk. I also enjoyed how you described Joanna through the boy’s eyes, jumping from one detail to another, and using words that seemingly contradict, or are not chivalrous like ‘bright’ and ‘sweaty’. This felt very well-observed to me.

 

I don’t follow how there are peaked ceiling underground. Vaulted I could see.

 

You talk about both light and darkness in the cellar(?) – I could do with some more description of the setting.

 

“wasn’t singing English words” – Now then, seems to me this very firmly places your story on Earth, it was also a dose of reality that I didn’t enjoy. I feel that you could replace the reference to English.

 

How did they get rip into a cellar designed for humans? This troubles me. Why would a cottage have such a space? This is the first element of the story I can think of that feels contrived for the purposes of the story. Having said this, I think maybe I have a false impression of how big he is, but shoes like furniture implies 30 or 40 feet tall to me. I guess I should not be trying to analyse this closely – maybe I thought the boy would be thinking about such things.

 

The hints at Trahaearn’s nefarious activities are well judged, just enough to keep the reader wondering.

 

Upstairs

 

“I’m quite a bit lovelier than you” – rofl

 

“brought out the key around her neck and fiddled with it” – didn’t she drop it in a drawer?

 

Hmm, okay, the end of the chapter is a total cliff-hanger and there are two views on this. Brandon would say it’s a cheap shot and he would more likely give the reveal. His reasoning is, as I recall, not to hold the reader hostage, but give them the reason to want to read on to discover more about the wonderful / scary / intriguing reveal they have just read. This said, it's your story, but I did feel slightly 'put out'. Not a biggy really.

[smgorden]

Robinski- 

Matrim Cauthon- I've read the first two WoT books, but have the darnedest time remembering anyone's name after I've set the books down for a while. As it happens, one of my best friend's surname is Cawthon. I got to like the sound of that name from that real-life reference and modified to suit my needs in the story. 

 

"“interruption is a violence” – violation?" Nope. Here it's being called a violence. 

Big Hydrangea- I think I was intending to something interesting with these hydrangea. I should probably cut them, so as not to distract. They're not actually important, anymore.
 

"If you’re going to describe Mrs. Caughthron, I think you need to do it earlier, " Ahhh. Hadn't notice that yet. Interesting how quickly an image can form. My current writing is well ahead of this submission. I'll have to go back and see what descriptions I have in there, and move them up to the first appearance. 

All grammar notes: I trust your judgement on these things. Simpler phrasing is better, will use it.

 

Reference to English/Earth: I feel the same way. Not sure what else to put there. This story should be plausibly Earth, but this particular sentence never sat right with me, either. I'll figure something out, eventually. But if you have suggestions...

"Hmm, okay, the end of the chapter is a total cliff-hanger." I've been trying out new places for chapter breaks. That break was not the original/intended one. But my submission would have been around 7500 words (or alternately around 3000) otherwise. So apologies for that abruptness. As a sideline, I've heard Sanderson's qualms about cliffhangers. In general, I agree, but I've heard episodes where the dig into the idea and discuss different kinds of abrupt endings, and he goes on to qualify that he mostly hates the ones that introduce a new, unexplained element for shock value. And his issue seemed to be that if an author has so little faith in the quality of their work that need a shock-type cliffhanger to propel someone to the next chapter, that's a cheap shot. Anyway, for pacing, I could always go back to my original chapter breaks (which would include another section of Joanna's world), if needed. I'm not too worried about it at this stage.

"The relationship between Joanna and the boy is crackling with the sweet tension of childish awkwardness." This is the best. I'm glad that's coming through. Thank you for commenting on what works. As you've seen, most of my attention in these chapters went to the dialog, and it's mostly the other details of setting that are slippery and need work. Clearly the basement is an issue. That's been a weird spot from my first draft (before revisions I made for this submission).

As usual- great notes! Much appreciated.

[king007]

I liked this chapter. A lot of moving around which kept it alive and interesting. Your writing was fluid but I think it still needs just a tiny bit of revision. And once again, you succeed in establishing an authentic childish tone.

 

I’m sure how I feel about the old lady. She seems awkward so far.

 

As for Joanna, I like her personality and the way she acts. It fits a child. And she sure doesn’t shy away from spilling the beans about everything. I’m not sure if that’s good or not. Let’s wait for further chapters to make that judgment.

 

In the previous chapter, I was led to assume that the boy is a fairy or at least that he sustained a shock when he was younger and that made him create his imaginary friend Papa to get around that shock.

 

In this chapter though, my latter assumption is further reinforced, because Joanna describes him as very lonely, but the first one about him being a fairy is less so because he fails to open the door at the end.

 

But if I take Gribble’s words into account, the boy was described as “unaffiliated” and Joanna confirmed this, so that leads me to assume that he lacks something to become a fully pledged fairy or something of that sort.

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“sun finally show his its face”

 

“a jacket with no sleeves” isn’t that a vest?

 

“Trahaearn knocked on the door which and it quickly swung open.”

 

I found the scene where she turned inside and then turned back towards them a bit awkward. Why didn’t she note the presence of the boy the first time ?

 

“Why do grownups keep calling me that? I’m not their son.” Nice thought.

 

I found the squabble, which ensued right before they entered, to be unnecessary.

 

You use a lot of “said” when you refer to someone speaking. In Writing Excuses, they advise to use it sparingly.

 

“said Trahaearn in an understanding way.” I’m not sure if the verb should take precedence in this type of sentences. And how about using “in a considerate manner” instead?

 

“sort of neat and tousled at the same time.” May be you should explain better how that is. The description that followed did not paint me the image of a tousled girl.

 

“swiftness that she oughtn’t ought not to have with all that weight.” Or “ought to not have”, I’m not very sure.

 

“she trod through without another look at me.” How about “she trod straight ahead”?

 

“There was another person lying in on the bed”

 

“Well it’s good your stomach’s empty” how is that good?

Edited January 29, 2016 by king007

[smgorden]

king007:

Thanks for the feedback. One major issue I need ask about.

 

"In the previous chapter, I was led to assume that the boy is a fairy or at least that he sustained a shock when he was younger and that made him create his imaginary friend Papa to get around that shock."
 

I think you're picking on some hints about the backstory that are legit, but this is not an intended conclusion about the father. The boy and his father are farmers who live together, neither imaginary. Can you tell me what details or moments encouraged you to form this alternate conclusion? 

 

I think submitted a couple times prior to your joining the group. Perhaps by missing the beginning of the story, there might be room for doubt on the subject of the father, which would be interesting. Anyway, let me know how you arrived at the idea, if you would.

[king007]

What led to my assumption about the father in the previous chapter is mainly the vision that the boy had about him dropping stones into the well.

The stone that carried the name Papa was the darkest and hardest. I took that as a hint, as if its color represented the dark memory that the boy wants to stay forgotten.

Also, the boy wept when he threw all the stones except for the stone named Papa. As if the concept or memory of Papa was actually hollow, that it didn't have a true weight in reality, that it was fabricated and his subconsience already knew that so it didn't move him to tears.

And he already said that himself: "Something about that last stone didn’t seem quite real. I decided it probably had another name, and that it wasn’t something to hold onto."

[rdpulfer]

- I like the introduction of Mrs. Caughthron, but in a rural setting like this, it might be good to introduce her prior, even just in passing conversation. (Disregard if you have already done so and this is just Weekly Reader Syndrome.) 

 

- I also like the introduction of Joanna, and how she is excited to be moving, even if it's just doing chores.

 

- Lots of weirdness about the man in the basements, the shoes, and Joanna's origins. I like it

 

- I like what Joanna says about not paying any mind to disputes between adults since it's just "dramatics". 

 

- I figured Joanna was a fairy, but I really like her matter-of-fact tone. I also like that "old business is always bad".

 

- Really excited by the introduction of new characters - both Joanna and Mrs. Caughton. I think that might be just what this story needs, since it's so far just been the main character, and his father and Trahaeran, aside from the characters in his tales. Looking forward to where this goes. 

[smgorden]

king007: Alright. Thanks for clarifying your thought process. I'll make a note to review that meditation section, and make sure the hints there are well aligned with my intention. Going forward, know that the father is a real. I have reveals in store, but I'm no M.Night Shyamalan. Nothing quite as wild as an established character being totally imaginary or what have you.

rdpulfer: Thank you, sir! I'm glad you're into the story. These chapters were where I figured out how I was going to tell the story, and the writing process moved along pretty well after I introduced the ladies. 

"Mrs. Caughthron... it might be good to introduce her prior, even just in passing conversation."
This is probably a good idea. Chapter 1 will get cut from my next draft, and chapters 2-3 will be re-written to get these important establishing pieces in place. I'll have to include Mrs. Caughthron in that process. Thanks!

 

 

 

 

[Robinski]

Matrim Cauthon - I got to like the sound of that name from that real-life reference and modified to suit my needs in the story. - It's a great sound, I agree. My concern was(is) that your readership will be full of punters who have read WoT cover-to-cover and be very familiar with it. If she's a passing character, I wouldn't give it much thought, but if she's in the story a lot, it might be more distracting (personally). In the end, it's probably a nicety that an agent or publisher might pick up on, but no doubt this judgement is above my pay grade as a simple humble critic.

 

"“interruption is a violence” – violation?" Nope. Here it's being called a violence. - Must say I'm not keen on the usage, but I defer to the author.

 

Big Hydrangea- I think I was intending to something interesting with these hydrangea. I should probably cut them, so as not to distract. They're not actually important, anymore. - It was just the climbing up. Wiki tells me they can grow pretty tall, it's the slenderness of the limbs that makes me puzzle over that statement.

 

Reference to English/Earth: I feel the same way. Not sure what else to put there. This story should be plausibly Earth, but this particular sentence never sat right with me, either. I'll figure something out, eventually. But if you have suggestions... - Hmm, I went back and looked at the context. How about "Joanna wasn’t singing English local words"? It's not entirely clear, but I agree that there isn't an Obvious replacement. I feel 'local' gets the implication across that the boy doesn't understand the lyric.

"Hmm, okay, the end of the chapter is a total cliff-hanger." - I agree with your assessment, I must say I wasn't outraged by any means, it just struck me at the time. I don't object to cliffhangers, and I think yours is in the right camp.

"The relationship between Joanna and the boy is crackling with the sweet tension of childish awkwardness." This is the best. I'm glad that's coming through. - I'm actually an incurable romantic, which perhaps is not immediately obvious, so I'm always looking for the meaningful (romantic) relationship in any story I'm reading. I would read on for this alone, so having the added interest of the father-son relationship is very satisfying, indeed, all your relationships are very effectively drawn, I think. I should qualify that I most certainly do not expect every story to flash-forward to a Katniss-Peta marital bliss situation!

[Eisenheim]

I'm a bit late to this, but I've had a busy week. 

 

Pro: this was the most engaging chapter yet, and I really felt myself drawn to read on and on, I like the doors the stitching.

 

Cons: I don't understand how the quilt works at all: are their patches of different shapes, or are the shapes embroidered on squares?

There's still some uncertain maturity from the narrator early in the chapter.  The language different people use seems anachronistic to each other.  I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out when and where in the world, or the closest equivalent if this is secondary world, this story is set.