SirTraconus

God Aons

18 posts in this topic

Here's something I was thinking about the other day.

 

On Scadrial, the metals act as a key, unlocking the power for allomancy/feruchemy. I believe the term for what they are, realmaticly, is a focus. So are the aons on Sel.

 

If Ruin and Preservation manifested the God metals, seeing as metals are a focus, shouldn't Devotion and Dominion do the same thing with their focus? Are there god Aons? Is there an aona-aon or a skai-aon?

 

Let me know if  I'm missing something or if this is way off the mark. 

 

But for the sake of argument, lets so they do exist. What would they do?

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Aon Aon? The Aon that Elantrians can only make when they are happy with the people around them (I only know like 3 Aon names.)

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The thing is different I suppose, the Atium (for example) is simply "only Ruin matter" in form of metal, and therefore is compatible with the Metallic arts.

 

You can't do something similar on Sel, because you can't create a "god-form".

 

At least you may create something like "an Aon thematicaly compatible with Devotion or Dominion, but that Aon will have nothing special,

(Like the "Divine Surges" on Roshar)

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There are no "God Surges" in Surgebinding, so I'm not sure I'd agree with the premise of this theory.

 

With that said, the thing with god metals and their alloys is, in part, that a different Shard's Investiture is powering that system. So for example, malatium is gold fueled by Ruin, and you get a different effect out. So perhaps it might be the case that powering AonDor with another Shard's Investiture, or pure Devotion/Dominion (as opposed the Dor which is a combination of both) would get us our "god Aons".

 

But I'm not sure how confident I am that the thing with malatium is gold being fueled by Ruin; atium's structure likely plays a part in addition to the power source, since malatium Mistings apparently existed.

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There are no "God Surges" in Surgebinding, so I'm not sure I'd agree with the premise of this theory.

When I used "God Surge" I want to say "Surge that are thematicaly linked to Honor or Cultivation". I know this "God Surges" aren't special at all.

Edited by Yata
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When I use "God Surge" I want to say "Surge that are thematicaly linked to Honor or Cultivation". I know this "God Surges" aren't special at all.

 

I was referring more to the original poster's theory, not yours! Sorry for any confusion.

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Welll

 

But then there is also this

 

I guess you could call the returned breaths god breaths.

 

Anyway I think Yata is right here. The focus on Sel isnt easily turned into something like a metal. Then again there could be Aons that are directly connected to the shards, but they are shattered so I doubt it would actually do anything.

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There are no "God Surges" in Surgebinding, so I'm not sure I'd agree with the premise of this theory.

 

With that said, the thing with god metals and their alloys is, in part, that a different Shard's Investiture is powering that system. So for example, malatium is gold fueled by Ruin, and you get a different effect out. So perhaps it might be the case that powering AonDor with another Shard's Investiture, or pure Devotion/Dominion (as opposed the Dor which is a combination of both) would get us our "god Aons".

 

But I'm not sure how confident I am that the thing with malatium is gold being fueled by Ruin; atium's structure likely plays a part in addition to the power source, since malatium Mistings apparently existed.

A Seon can actualize it's Aon, can't it? Given that they are Splinters of Devotion, that may be a sign towards the system being powered by only one Shard not changing it.

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A Seon can actualize it's Aon, can't it? Given that they are Splinters of Devotion, that may be a sign towards the system being powered by only one Shard not changing it.

Well actually on Sel there is a single magic system, a "Programmable Investiture" (that manifest itself differently in every region/country) fueled by the Dor.

 

Therefore with D&D's Investiture merged in the Dor. Every Selish Magic User is fueled by both of them, also a Splinter of Devotion that try to actualize it's Aon (without talking about the "Missing line" in their Aon, strange things will happen if they try to use it).

Edited by Yata
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A Seon can actualize it's Aon, can't it? Given that they are Splinters of Devotion, that may be a sign towards the system being powered by only one Shard not changing it.

 

This is a very solid point. Seons/Skaze are definitely wholly of one of the two Shards on Sel, so this makes a lot of sense and soundly knocks down my theory. Nice thought.

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Alternatively making an Aon out of a god metal may do something, given that the material used doesn't really matter at all I doubt it would but it's possible.

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On Roshar perhaps one could possibly bond the Shard itself... Since Roshar focus is probably "bond", the arrival of a Shard would create a way to bond it.

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The thing is different I suppose, the Atium (for example) is simply "only Ruin matter" in form of metal, and therefore is compatible with the Metallic arts.

 

You can't do something similar on Sel, because you can't create a "god-form".

 

At least you may create something like "an Aon thematicaly compatible with Devotion or Dominion, but that Aon will have nothing special,

(Like the "Divine Surges" on Roshar)

Speaking of "an Aon thematically compatible with Devotion", Aon Omi does seem to be somewhat special:

 

In AonDor, Aon Omi would emit a pure white light. Anyone touched by this light would have their negative emotions removed, replaced with a feeling of serenity and peace, making actively maintaining a sense of hatred difficult. It is peculiar in that it requires the Elantrian drawing it to feel sincere affection for those around them, making it one of the few Aons that requires anything except the ability to draw it. When used as a modifier it will link lines of Aons together or, if used correctly, serve as a minor power enhancer.

The Dor is a mixture of Devotion and Dominion, but I wonder if using Aon Omi can somehow filter out the Dominion part of the Dor to produce pure Devotion Investiture.

Of course, one would also have to ask if there are forms that attune to pure Devotion or to pure Dominion on other Selish regions. Are there Fjordell characters that represent Dominion and (dare I say) Devotion, and what do they do in Dakhor? Is there a ChayShan move that unleashes pure Dominion in battle? Do Jindo marriage rituals involve a Devotion-based ChayShan move? Is it easier to create Essence Marks that make the target more devoted to something? Do Bloodsealers use a Dominion glyph to control skeletals?

For that matter, is there an Aon that releases pure Dominion Investiture?

Edited by skaa
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EDIT: Somewhat Ninja'd. That's what I get for being carried away and writing this monster.

I am intrigued by this concept.

An important question is: Do God Metals come from Shardholders (as their names suggest), or do they come from Shards? or is it some combination of the two?

Spoilered for Length:


Some facts/assumptions:
1 - Atium and Lerasium are from Ati and Leras, who were Shardholders, but now are dead. (per Hero of Ages)
2 - Atium was stolen from Ati, created by Leras out of Ati (Ruin) to hide his power from him. (per HoA)
3 - Lerasium was given to humanity by Leras (Preservation), of his own will, to enable humanity to defeat Ruin. (per HoA) 
4 - Atium continued to exist after both Ati and Leras died (per Marsh's longevity / WoB).
5 - Presumably, if any Lerasium had remained unBurned, it would also have survived the deaths of Ati and Leras.
6 - Harmonium exists.

7 - God Metals are physical manifestations of pure Investiture (pure Ruin in the case of Atium, pure Preservation in the case of Lerasium).

From those I speculate:
1 - Just as Lerasium was created by Leras, Harmonium is a voluntary creation by Sazed.
2 - God Metals may be re-created by any Shardholder, provided they have access to the correct Shard (whether by Holding it, or by force). 2.1 - Sazed can therefore create Atium and Lerasium out of Ruin and Preservation even though Ati and Leras are dead. Harmonium is, then, some ratio of Ruin to Preservation (probably 1:1, because harmony), and can be made by any Shardholder with access to its constituents.
3 - Anything created by any Shardholder using 100% Ruin will be Atium; using 100% Preservation will be Lerasium; using the unknown ratio of Ruin to Preservation will be Harmonium.
4 - Theoretically, a different ratio of Ruin to Preservation will produce a different God Metal. Probably only certain ratios function, per Allomantic alloys requiring specific ratios. (If this holds true, the combination of Ruin and Preservation yields multiple God Metals, but probably a finite, small amount, since Sanderson tends to limit his systems).

To sum up, I argue that:

God Metals are created by Shardholders out of Shards, and different Shards/combinations thereof create different God Metals. These are physical manifestations.

(Or, if based only on Shardholder, we could have Rashekium, Vinium, and Kelsierium. That gets out of hand really fast when Shardholders change. No way to prove or disprove it, at this point -- Maybe they could have made their own brands of 100% Preservation God Metals. As far as we know, they didn't. But that doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't.)

 

The fact that there needs to be a Shardholder seems important. In Mistborn, we only see God Metals come about when a Shardholder wills them to or uses violence against another Shardholder. They do not naturally occur, unlike the magic systems themselves. (Allomancy existed before Lerasium).

What are God Metals?


God Metals are definitely physical, but I will discount that aspect of them for now, since the magic of Scadrial is largely physical, and that may not be part of their conceptual role in the magic system. (Besides which, what constitutes physical Investiture? Are the Mists physical? is Stormlight? Ruin's black smoke? Breaths? Splinters (Seons, Skaze, Spren) have some physicality to them, and are also pure Investiture. Yet some of these can only be manipulated by magical means.)

As mentioned by the original post, metals on Scadrial are Focuses. They define how the power can be used, and they enable the use of that power. They are not themselves the power. God Metals, on the other hand, are the power of a Shard.

God Metals are at once Focuses and the power itself -- pure Investiture. God Metals are also not sentient/sapient, unlike Seons, Skaze, and Spren.

Intent is an important principle in the Cosmere, and I think it plainly applies to God Metals, as demonstrated above. So, if there are equivalents to God Metals in each magic system, I believe they must be intentionally created by a Shardholder. Which generally means the Shardholder needs a reason to make them. So far, we have seen Shardholders make God Metals to further their objectives, usually in terms of the Cosmere-wide Shardic conflict. Preservation wanted to preserve humanity/his creations, therefore Lerasium, The Well of Ascension, the Mists, and so forth. This is the aspect of God Metals I am most sure would apply to equivalents.


To sum up, a tentative definition of the God Metal category of Investiture: Manifestations of pure Investiture, intentionally created by a Shardholder out of a Shard, in the form of a Focus in the magic system.

DIRECTLY ON-TOPIC:

If it's true that a Shardholder must be involved, any Selish equivalents to God Metals would need to have been created prior to Aona and Skai's death.

Aons are focuses, certainly. But how can an Aon be pure Investiture, in addition to channeling Investiture? You could . . . make an Aon out of a God Metal! Ha. Aons are based on the land. So, for there to be a God Aon, perhaps there needs to be some element of the land made of pure Investiture? Aons are largely undocumented and uncategorized. They are apparently capable of doing just about anything, provided the right knowledge and application. Atium and Malatium were mistaken for ordinary Allomantic metals until the categories of metals were better understood. How can we know whether an Aon 'fits,' since we don't know how Aons are organized? But possibly God Aons do exist.

As for Seons, Skaze, and Spren -- They are all Splinters. Notably, WoB says that Atium and Lerasium are not Splinters. That has me leaning toward them not being God Metal equivalents, but maybe they can be both. As I understand it (though I'm having a hard time finding the WoB I thought existed - correct me if I'm wrong), they arose because their respective Shardholders are dead. The Shards, having been left without direction, began self-organizing, and became sentient. If so, there was no Shardholder Intention in the creation of Seons, Skaze, or Spren. (And that may or may not be an accurate criteria).

Then again, Seons and Skaze are presumably 100% Devotion/Dominion Investiture, and have and can activate Aons (thus making them Focuses). So I think I'll say they're plausibly God Metal equivalents.

Spren . . . I don't know. We know there are Spren from two of the Shardholders on Roshar, so that's something. And they are Focuses in that they determine which Surges can be used.

I think Divine Breaths are most obviously equivalent to God Metals -- They are both the focus and the power, are not themselves sentient (matching the God Metals), and are created by Edgli out of Endowment.

The most interesting aspect of all of this, if true: There could be Seon-like creations for every Shard and combination of Shards. And maybe the same for Divine Breaths -- similar, but with different passive and active abilities. Whereas Endowment Divine Breaths heal, maybe a Ruin-Breath destroys?

Edited by Nethseäar
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I think the premise for this question is flawed. That's because Aons aren't actually the focus for Sel's singular Magic system, but it seems like landmasses are since you need the shape of Arelon to power AonDor and Maipon's shape for Forgery. I believe that the equivalent of Atium/Lerasium in this situation would be something in the land like stone that would be useful in manipulation the Dor; such as Soulstone.

Pretty sure somewhere in The Emperor's Soul Shai mentioned that Soulstone fell from the sky (when devotion and dominion shattere maybe?)

Edited by Strigoi
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From what I've seen, it seems like Devotion's hypothetical 'God Aon' is Elantris itself.

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From what I've seen, it seems like Devotion's hypothetical 'God Aon' is Elantris itself.

You mean Aon Rao? I agree that some sort of power augmentation can be expected when using the purest form of a Shard's Investiture, but that doesn't necessarily make power augmentation the only thing to look for when identifying "god Foci". After all, nicrosil and duralumin lead to some awesome Allomantic effects, but they're not god metals.

For all we know, Aon Rao augments both Devotion and Dominion Investitures, depending on which Aon is being used.

Aon Omi can also enhance power, and is much more attuned to Devotion's Intent.

 

I think the premise for this question is flawed. That's because Aons aren't actually the focus for Sel's singular Magic system, but it seems like landmasses are since you need the shape of Arelon to power AonDor and Maipon's shape for Forgery.

The Focus on Sel are the Forms that are based on specific regions on Sel. Aons are the Forms based on the region of Arelon, so they are the Focus of Arelish Investiture. Other regions have other Foci.

You may read the Coppermind article on it for more details.

Edited by skaa
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Speaking of "an Aon thematically compatible with Devotion", Aon Omi does seem to be somewhat special:

 

I've thought about this for a while, and I've decided that this theory is likely true.

 

Consider atium. It is both a unique focus (metallic structure) and pure Ruin (its own power source).

 

So, for a god Aon on Sel, we'd want something similar: an Aon which uses either Devotion or Dominion but not the Dor, and we'd want it to involve a new Aon (ie. not Aon Rao used with either of the two Shard's Investiture). Using the straight Dor in this "god Aon" should likely be possible but require hackery.

 

Aon Omi fits perfectly. The Cognitive requirement of feeling sincere affection (cough cough devotion) for those around you could serve to split the Dor and only allow Devotion's Investiture through. The Dor, after all, exists primarily in the Cognitive - thinking Devotiony thoughts like those required for Aon Omi could break it up into Devotion and drive away Dominion, I'm thinking.

 

I shouldn't need to mention the fact that Aon Omi means "love", which was the original name of Devotion's Shard.

 

For Dominion's Aon, perhaps Aon Are ("unity, cohesion") might be the place to look. Eda ("superior, lofty"), ope ("nation"), or teo ("royal, majestic") may also be candidates. Something to ask Brandon, I suppose.

 

The sign to look for in a Dominion god Aon would be an Aon which requires a similar Cognitive effort from the Elantrian - perhaps you need to surround yourself with people loyal to you, or perhaps you need to feel superior to those around you.

 

(I also note, though I believe it's been brought up before, that the Aon list includes a ton of Shards. Eshe (endowment), mai (honor), dao (stability - Preservation?), kaa (plants - Cultivation?), eon (willpower, endurance - Autonomy?).)

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