King's Twit Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) So, I don't know if this has been brought up before, but between the times that Vivenna finds Parlin dead and when she is rescued by Vasher, her hair never changes color. Vivenna writes this off to shock or her mental fuzziness from being sick, but I think that may not be true. For the few hours between when she finds Parlin and when she is robbed for her clothing, she is likely in shock, or at least in a constant state of terror with no other strong emotions to distract, which is why her hair stays white. After her clothing is taken, she realizes that she needs to hide the Breaths that she holds, so she places all of them into the shawl, becoming a drab. Following this is a period of two weeks of living on the street following by one week of unconsciousness, and during all of this time, her hair does not change color once. Not for lack of trying either, I think, because she has to keep her hair in a constant state of extreme filth to darken it from being so distinctively white. However, minutes after she gets her breaths back, and because she is only slightly embarrassed by Vasher, her hair changes color for the first time. I think this shows that you need at least one Breath to control the Royal Locks. The only counter to this idea is that Vivenna does become angry when the man who steals her clothing tries to take her shift too, yet her hair does not turn red, but since that was within hours of finding Parlin dead and being betrayed by Denth, I am fairly confident in writing that incident up to shock or the anger never eclipsing the fear she still felt. Edited January 8, 2016 by King's Twit 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Sounds reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) It possible indeed. Maybe the "DivineBreath's bit" that give her the Royal Locks is part of her Breath and therefore without it, She is stuck without any Hairshifting ability. Edit: I though about and if the Royal Locks was inside her Breath, she would probably lose during the Breath giving to Vasher. Therefore I am wrong. Edited January 8, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Perhaps the tiny sliver of a Divine Breath stays with them constantly, even when they give their Breath to someone else. The sliver isn't enough to allow them to change their hair color, requiring a normal Breath to allow the Royal Locks to function. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Perhaps the tiny sliver of a Divine Breath stays with them constantly, even when they give their Breath to someone else. The sliver isn't enough to allow them to change their hair color, requiring a normal Breath to allow the Royal Locks to function. Yes, I realized that just after post the previous message. Probably the Breath is used as fuel for the DivineBreath's bit. But if this is true, maybe Vivenna with many Breath may change her form more deeply (A full Returned form with 2000 Breaths or more ?). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King's Twit Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) But if this is true, maybe Vivenna with many Breath may change her form more deeply (A full Returned form with 2000 Breaths or more ?). Here's an interesting thing about the Royal Locks that I didn't know until I read it in the annotations. Can Vivenna change her appearance more? She can indeed. She could actually stoke that fragment of a divine Breath inside of her and start glowing like a Returned. She can’t change her physical features to look like someone else, but she can change her age, her height (within reason), and her body shape (to an extent). It takes practice. So she, and the others of the Royal Line, are more quasi-Returned than they think (and probably more than they would want to know). Edited January 10, 2016 by King's Twit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 How to be banished from Idris in one easy step: give the Royal Family that nugget of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 How to be banished from Idris in one easy step: give the Royal Family that nugget of information. Well the Idris popolation has nothing against the Returneds as a being (they think that Austre sends them back, after all), they hate just the Breath-give away used to feed the Court of the Gods (and the God-King). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenPlague Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 Well the Idris popolation has nothing against the Returneds as a being (they think that Austre sends them back, after all), they hate just the Breath-give away used to feed the Court of the Gods (and the God-King). But they are descended from Returned who did take breaths, aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 But they are descended from Returned who did take breaths, aren't they? They (at least the Royal Family) are descended from Vo (the first Returned as far as we know) and Vo died after a week consumed by his Returned's hungry. This last part can be false, but both the Idrisians and the Iridescent Tones think that is the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 They (at least the Royal Family) are descended from Vo (the first Returned as far as we know) and Vo died after a week consumed by his Returned's hungry. This last part can be false, but both the Idrisians and the Iridescent Tones think that is the truth. That's never really seemed plausible to me. I mean if you think about it, that leaves only two possibilities: 1: Vo had a family before he returned and this family is the line that the Royals come from. The one problem with this is then you have to explain why the royal line has qualities in common with the Returned. How would that work if Vo had his kid(s) before he himself returned? 2. Vo conceived a child or children during the week he was alive after he returned. Possible, yes. Likely? Debatable. Something about the story told to us so far doesn't add up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 It's the 2.He had a wife, and in his Returned's week, He conceived a child with her. The Returneds may have childern using a specific method (or methods). Some High Rank of the Iridescent Tones for example, knows how to make it. And if Siri and Susebron was escaped following his High Priest. They will be send to an Island where other Priest may give to a Susebron an heir (through this unknown method). But the Priests themself didn't know if Vo used the same method or If there are another Methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 The plausibility of conception in one week is a moot point here, since it clearly happened already and there'd be no way to inherit the divine breath fragment otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 It's the 2. He had a wife, and in his Returned's week, He conceived a child with her. The Returneds may have childern using a specific method (or methods). Some High Rank of the Iridescent Tones for example, knows how to make it. And if Siri and Susebron was escaped following his High Priest. They will be send to an Island where other Priest may give to a Susebron an heir (through this unknown method). But the Priests themself didn't know if Vo used the same method or If there are another Methods. The method is not actually entirely unknown, if you haven't seen this WoB: Graendal A question that's been on my mind for a while. If Returned can't have children, how are Siri and Vivenna descended from one? Brandon Sanderson Excellent question. One I have to RAFO. When I was writing Warbreaker, I was planning on two books. I seeded two questions to be answered in the next book. One was the origin of the royal family. The second was how Vasher was able to survive while hiding his divine Breath. I will answer these questions. Eventually. (It has to do with restoring Breath and life to the child while still in the womb.). (source) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 The method is not actually entirely unknown, if you haven't seen this WoB: Well it's quite unknown to us all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattemer Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 If Vivenna can change her age, did we just discover another method of immortality in the Cosmere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Well, the returned can basically stay alive for as long as they have investiture fueling their divine breath, so I wouldn't say it's much different than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattemer Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Vivenna doesn't need to feed on people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Vivenna doesn't need to feed on people. But the Investiture she'll need to fuel her immortality has to come from somewhere. Granted, she doesn't guzzle it like a Returned has to, but she'll need to have extra Breath eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shallan Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 That's possible, and in my opinion likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I don't think she can change her actual age, just her apparent age (i.e. she can give herself wrinkles and other signs of age). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King's Twit Posted January 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I don't think she can change her actual age, just her apparent age (i.e. she can give herself wrinkles and other signs of age). Maybe, but I was thinking that she could actually change her age, only it works like Atium Feruchemy and your body remembers it's true age, so it's easier for her to make herself 20 years old when she is actually 30 than it is to make herself 20 when she is actually 100. She could maybe extend her life for 50-100 years, but any more would probably require a large supply of investiture. Returned never seem to need more than 1 breath per week, though, so who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Returned are, however, at Fifth Heightening by default, which halts aging. Either this causes the breath stock to degrade faster as time goes on (I do vaguely recall that breath can steadily weaken though I'm unsure) in order to distort physical age against the "demands" of the spiritual aspect, or this means their spiritual aspect stops advancing it's . . . "age counter", for lack of a better phrase. We ought to throw this at Brandon to see if it gets us a RAFO. With that said, Vivenna doesn't have a huge color aura to the degree of Lightsong so the mechanism of her theoretical age manipulation is probably different from the stack of Heightening side effects, I feel. Edited January 21, 2016 by natc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenChaser Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 But the Investiture she'll need to fuel her immortality has to come from somewhere. Granted, she doesn't guzzle it like a Returned has to, but she'll need to have extra Breath eventually. In a few moments, she was able to get the hair to grow. Several women gasped softly as the hair sprouted from Siri's head and moved down to her shoulders. Growing it made her feel hungry and tired, but it was better than letting the women fight snarls. hungry and tired... Could there be a similar connection to a certain awesome girl in WoR? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondesu Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 In a few moments, she was able to get the hair to grow. Several women gasped softly as the hair sprouted from Siri's head and moved down to her shoulders. Growing it made her feel hungry and tired, but it was better than letting the women fight snarls. hungry and tired... Could there be a similar connection to a certain awesome girl in WoR? Sounds to me like it uses some of her innate Investiture to grow it, similarly to who you're talking about. I'd say there's a great deal of similarity, yep, though obviously some major differences too. jW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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