Szeth's Oathstone - Potential Spoilers

[IndigoAjah]

In fact I'd say it's close to canon.

In Jasnah's prologue in WOR she finds 2 men, one is Nin the other possibly another herald or another person, at the site of Szeth's attack just before it, and the one who isn't Nin says "I don't like this. What we've done was wrong. That creature carries my lord's (so could be related to windrunners or to heralds as Jezrien is Lord of both) own Blade. We shouldn't have let him keep it. He_"

This definitely implies they are involved in Szeth, know all about him and actively let him keep the Blade, possibly when they gave the Parshendi his oathstone?

[Patrick Star]

It was definitely Dinkleberg.  Calling it right now.

 

Nin even. He even says Szeth has seen him before, I presume it was at the feast?

 

Nalan was at the feast, and was watching Szeth.  Like IndigoAjah said, they commented on Szeth, and Nalan almost definitely knew what Szeth was ordered to do.

 

However, I don't believe that either Kalak (theorized to be the second herald that Indigo mentions) or Nalan would order the execution.  Kalak's become cowardly, and wouldn't have the guts to come if he did order Szeth, and Nalan couldn't order the assassination of the king.  Against the law.

 

But they most likely knew about it.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Patrick Star

[hypatia]

Nin/Nale/Nalan is at any time a good suspect to be involved.

Little bit OT:

Whoever was acting (or not) in the background were they trying to prevent the desolation or was the resulting events with the Vengeance War, the Parshendi and the now different Desolation exactly the goal?

Is someone acting on Odium's order?

And for Nale - he kills Radiants to prevent the Desolation. This effects the bonded Spren.

But all we know is that a new cycle starts with the breaking of a Herald under torture.

Is killing Radiants even a way to prevent a Desolation?

Shouldn't a Herald know the mechanism?

[Patrick Star]

Nin/Nale/Nalan is at any time a good suspect to be involved.

 

Nale's not a good suspect in this type of assassination.  He's bound by the law, and must work inside of it in order to accomplish his goals.

 

Organizing and ordering the assassination of Alethkar's king is definitely against the law.  There's no way he ordered it.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Patrick Star

[IndigoAjah]

I suspect all the heralds are mad in different ways. And I suspect Nin can justify murder to himself by using the Parshendi, who would be commiting war not crime

[hypatia]

Isn't Nale acting within the rules of the current country?

Alethkar with the "the end justfies the meaning" - mentality doesn't really be on odds with something like that.

Look at Sadeas or Amaram.

I don't say it was Nale, but all he has done - if - is giving the Parshendi a Stone.

The problem I see is: Shouldn't Szeth recognize him for more than only the feast?

A question - Is it known how long before the assassination Szeth was declared Truthless?

Or who has hold his Oathstone before the Parshendi?

[IndigoAjah]

Szeth does recognise him. And he has cronies

[hypatia]

Yes, that's possible, Szeth also hasn't known about Mr T as his new master.

And Nalan in WoR is in contact with the Sons of Honor.

[A Windspren]

Szeth hid the black sphere in Jah Keved. Shallan is from Jah Kaved. Commence the conspiracy theories.

[Patrick Star]

Isn't Nale acting within the rules of the current country?

Alethkar with the "the end justfies the meaning" - mentality doesn't really be on odds with something like that.

Look at Sadeas or Amaram.

I don't say it was Nale, but all he has done - if - is giving the Parshendi a Stone.

The problem I see is: Shouldn't Szeth recognize him for more than only the feast?

 

Um, assassinating the king is definitely illegal.  Or just murder in general, for that matter.  It doesn't matter what the Alethi "mindset" is.  It's against the law.  And Amaram and Sadeas both broke the law.

 

And seeing as how he used Ym being an unwitting accomplice to a murder as justification to then murder him, wittingly and willingly giving Szeth's oathstone to the Parshendi or even attempting to get it into their hands would be strictly out of bounds for him.

[kaellok]

And seeing as how he used Ym being an unwitting accomplice to a murder as justification to then murder him, wittingly and willingly giving Szeth's oathstone to the Parshendi or even attempting to get it into their hands would be strictly out of bounds for him.

I really don't draw the same conclusion as you at all, even given the same scenario.

 

What I see is someone bound by the word/letter of the law, but utterly free of its spirit or intent.  Giving the Oathstone to the Parshendi, or seeing it coming into their hands, does not seem to violate the word/letter of the law, even if he suspects what use they'll put it to.  If it were to be spelled out, then yes, that would probably be going too far--but just seeing to it that they had a tool available?  I just don't see that being out of bounds for him if he can maintain plausible deniability to his own madness.  

 

There is nothing legally wrong with giving someone the Oathstone; there is something legally wrong with giving someone the Oathstone and then saying "(You can) Murder the king using this."

 

I also think that Nalan views Szeth differently than others because he saves/resurrects Szeth, rather than putting him to death--despite Szeth having committed an untold number of murders/assassinations which are clearly illegal.  So there is definitely evidence that the law is applied inconsistently.  There's also a thread that I thought was from a few months ago that is actually over a year old--and apparently I've also mostly reversed my thoughts and position on the whole thing since then, since I think it's about 60% likely that Nalan is behind it, 40% that he's not

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/18337-has-nalan-been-using-szeth-from-the-start/

(Peter has the frustrating comment of Hmmmmmm regarding the topic)

[TwelfthOfSnackTime]

Isn't Nale acting within the rules of the current country?

Alethkar with the "the end justfies the meaning" - mentality doesn't really be on odds with something like that.

Look at Sadeas or Amaram.

I don't say it was Nale, but all he has done - if - is giving the Parshendi a Stone.

The problem I see is: Shouldn't Szeth recognize him for more than only the feast?

A question - Is it known how long before the assassination Szeth was declared Truthless?

Or who has hold his Oathstone before the Parshendi?

 

 

I believe Liss(If that was the name of the assassin that Jasnah tasked with keeping an eye on Elokars wife) had him as some sort of apprentice, but that he creeped her out so she got rid of him. I can't find the exact quote right now though.

I doubt she turned him over directly to the Parshendi though, so Nale is still a valid option. 

[Slaybalj]

Liss says she sold him to a slaver a few weeks before the assassination.

[Ari]

Is there a possible connection with Jasnah planing to assassinate Aesudan to protect her family?

The Parshendi only decide to kill Dalinar after he told them about his plan.

This sounds as if Szeth was in Kholinar at this time.

Before the Parshendi didn't need an assassin - now they did. Where could they find him, whom would they ask?

Cui bono?

Beside the Parshendi - who had had a benefit with the death of Dalinar?

Elhokar - he is the new king.

Aesudan - she is the queen.

The Ghostbloods - don't know, but they try to kill all Kholins.

Sadeas - he ends up as the "hero" of this evening, he gains the trust of Elhokar. How long was he planning to become the king? Dalinar's death could have been the first step to reach this position.

Who else?

 

Don't forget the Diagramists. Gavilar seemed to be with Amaram on the whole wanting to bring about the desolation thing, and they are very much against that.

 

A lot of the Taravangian scenes suggest they had some part in Szeth even becoming truthless in the first place, so it seems possible that they've been behind some of his assassinations even before he started on their list.

[Oathbringer]

IF it was a kandra that would have to be several because the parshendi rule as a council-like group. Also, it could just be he hasn't decided which parshendi did the actual order--after all they said it needed to be done, they didn't explain Gavilar's death

[StormWrath]

Is there a possible connection with Jasnah planing to assassinate Aesudan to protect her family?

The Parshendi only decide to kill Dalinar after he told them about his plan.

This sounds as if Szeth was in Kholinar at this time.

Before the Parshendi didn't need an assassin - now they did. Where could they find him, whom would they ask?

Cui bono?

Beside the Parshendi - who had had a benefit with the death of Dalinar?

Elhokar - he is the new king.

Aesudan - she is the queen.

The Ghostbloods - don't know, but they try to kill all Kholins.

Sadeas - he ends up as the "hero" of this evening, he gains the trust of Elhokar. How long was he. planning to become the king? Dalinar's death could have been the first step to reach this position.

Who else?

At the time aesudan was just the wife of the heir to the crown so she didn't have much power,so I don't see why jasnah would want her dead at that time

I think Gavilar must have told the parshendi of his plans in the shattered plains not when they came to kholinar to sign the treaty,so they planned the assassination before even coming to kholinar,so they didn't have to find szeth,they brought him all along,it was all well planned.