Oudeis Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 In my re-read. Vasher just told Vivenna that it's suspected that someone, be it the Iridescent Tones, Austre, or Endowment, Awakens the Returned with a Command. I think we've seen that Stennimar was asked, do you want to Return, implying choice on his part. I know Type 1s are unique in a great many ways, but I still wonder... is it technically possible for a rope to refuse a Command? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Shard Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 If Awakening requires you to impose your will over an objects natural tendency, a weak-willed Awakener could have a rope refuse his command and decide to strangle him or something. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cem Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I'd say it's "technically possible," but doesn't happen under normal circumstances. Since giving Commands is a Cognitive process (picturing the Command in your mind), it's likely given to the Cognitive aspect of an object. In that regard, Awakening is very much like Soulcasting, actually. There is a communication in the scene between the object and Shallan where she Soulcasts for the first time. IIRC, the object asks her to change it to something else. So I guess, something with enough cognitive function could possibly reject being Awakened. By the way, Investing an already Invested object takes tremendous amount of power. Technically speaking, these Invested objects can be said to reject being Invested again. So I suppose it could be argued if you were to try to re-Awaken an already Awakened rope, it would refuse your Command. Does this make sense? I think it does. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 By the way, Investing an already Invested object takes tremendous amount of power. Technically speaking, these Invested objects can be said to reject being Invested again. So I suppose it could be argued if you were to try to re-Awaken an already Awakened rope, it would refuse your Command. Does this make sense? I think it does. Maybe. I wonder how much, if any, resistance a rope would have to Awakening if you simply used it to hold Breath, the way Vivenna used her shawl. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claincy Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I wonder how much, if any, resistance a rope would have to Awakening if you simply used it to hold Breath, the way Vivenna used her shawl. I would guess some, but I think how much would greatly depend on the number of breaths you stored in it. A couple might make barely any resistance while several hundred to 1000 might make it very difficult for someone else to awaken and likely require more breaths to do so as a direct consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted January 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Hrm... is this what happens when incorrect "Commands" are given? Do you try telling the rope, "Hold things that I tell you to hold" and the rope says, "NO!"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) Hrm... is this what happens when incorrect "Commands" are given? Do you try telling the rope, "Hold things that I tell you to hold" and the rope says, "NO!"?"Hold things I tell you to hold please."".....OK." Edited January 18, 2014 by Swimmingly 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cris34b Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 I'm guessing if say, and this is completely inaccurate but I'm making it simple for the sake of science, you are able to Awaken a rope with 1 Breath. Right? Easy. Put in a quarter and go for a ride. One breath, one Awakening. Now, lets assume someone already stored a Breath in there. (Command doesn't matter, since storing Breath inside of something is essentially a failed Command, so the resistance will be the same, unless you tell it to "resist Awakening" then you might get some interesting problems) Sorry Tangent. Okay, the rope has 1 Breath in it, so you cannot awaken it with 1 Breath, you have to overpower the original command. So you have to use at least two Breaths to awaken it. Since Brandon said your investiture has to be stronger, which is why it would take the Well for a Mistborn to push a Shardblade, which has so much Investiture. Right? So to awaken something with 3 Breaths in it, you need 4, etc. If you had to use at least 3 Breaths to awaken an object, but the object already has 4 Breaths in it, you have to use at least 7 Breaths to awaken it. 4 to overpower, and then 3 for the actual command. As for what happens to the Breath already in there? Probably the same thing as when two Feruchemists invest in the same piece of metal. Their Breath just goes to a different part of the item, waiting for them to come and retrieve it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Joe in the Bush Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 That might be a part of Command breaking. But I think that by that Logic, of Using breaths to cancel out other breaths, it would be easy to Take control of the one breath Lifeless. There would have to be something else needed for an Item to Refuse to be commanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsworn Panda Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 No, I don't think so. Awakening either works, or it doesn't. Besides, I don't think an inanimate object like a rope could have enough sentience to refuse a command. Maybe a Stick though . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 That might be a part of Command breaking. But I think that by that Logic, of Using breaths to cancel out other breaths, it would be easy to Take control of the one breath Lifeless. There would have to be something else needed for an Item to Refuse to be commanded.I think with Command Breaking, you're also dealing with overpowering the Command itself, not just the Investiture. So a stronger and more clearly visualized Command is pretty difficult to break. And the one-breath Command must be a pretty strong one, since the best Commands are the ones requiring the least Breath. Iirc, that's why Vasher's squirrel is so hard to break– he's so experienced an Awakener that his Commands are much more powerful than normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardmancer Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 I agree with most of the above comments. I believe it depends on the strength of the awakener and breaths. (remember not all breaths are the same strength as well) So when awkening having a clear visual and audio command so obviously you can do it wrong and have the command refused or work improperly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistLord Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 No, I don't think so. Awakening either works, or it doesn't. Besides, I don't think an inanimate object like a rope could have enough sentience to refuse a command. Maybe a Stick though . It's funny you mention that, because the idea of Awakenings refusing Commands immediately draws a parallel between Shallan and her incident with Stick. Though you're right, Awakening works or it doesn't, there's no room for refusal (refer to Vivienna getting Breaths against her will). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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