Chapters 3-5 up on Tor

[Natans]

What if someone started calling him Aladin? Syl is kind of like a genie.

 Better than Son Goku at least =)

[Shardlet]

Hi Moogle

 

 

Heliodors can be red (or yellow). The ease of movement through water may also be explained through the ‘Surface Tension’ surge, rather than friction – by reducing the surface tension of the water.

 

My own theory is that the Knight is Dalinar’s vision is a Bondsmith, because I predicted the very scenario of a squad of soldiers glowing, just a couple of days before the chapter was published.

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/5137-final-surge/

 

I hope the link worked properly.

 

This would place this Knight Radiant as a Stoneward.

 

So here we have the armour glowing red...but :

 

Here we have her stormlight glowing a calm white.

 

This by the way, isn't a blazing light, but a calm light - which is important in comparison to her soldiers.

 

This only happens after the Knight Radiant starts glowing (which makes sense if she is bonded to them), and appears to occur all at once (which would also make sense if she is bonded to them), and it is dimmer than the 'calm light' that the KR has (which again makes sense if she is bonded to them)

 

If they were KR in training, as suggested elsewhere - they would still be surgebinders, and :

- some would surely have absorbed stormlight prior to the KR (which none did); and

- they would have started glowing at different times (which we have no evidence of, and surely it would have been obvious); and

- they would each have absorbed different amounts, meaning they would have glowed at different brightnesses (which doesn't happen); and

- some would have been slightly brighter than the KR, who only had a 'calm white light' about her (but this is not the case)

- they would have displayed their own individual surgebinding abilities (which they don't)

 

A Bonding surge explains this behaviour (which I predicted, yay!), AND the STARFALLS vision regarding the 'ability to communicate over distance', and the ability to heal with a gem (which doesn't appear to be a fabrial)...although Shardlet won't like that last. 

 

removed edit 

 

I agree with Moogle that she is a Dustbringer using the friction surge. While surface tension would enable her to move easily on water, I don't see how it could help her to move through water as the quote says.  On top of which, as Moogle pointed out, her armor glowed red. There are two red gemstones represented in the KR chart, ruby (Dustbringers) and garnet (lightweavers).  Orders 8, 9, and 10 are not red.  8 is the closest, but that is amethyst which is purple.  And the stormlight is always white.  The only thing that gives stormlight color is when it is filtered through a gemstone (or perhaps in the case of the plate since stormlight likely plays a role in its glowing).

[Jaconis]

I agree with Moogle that she is a Dustbringer using the friction surge. While surface tension would enable her to move easily on water, I don't see how it could help her to move through water as the quote says. On top of which, as Moogle pointed out, her armor glowed red. There are two red gemstones represented in the KR chart, ruby (Dustbringers) and garnet (lightweavers). Orders 8, 9, and 10 are not red. 8 is the closest, but that is amethyst which is purple. And the stormlight is always white. The only thing that gives stormlight color is when it is filtered through a gemstone (or perhaps in the case of the plate since stormlight likely plays a role in its glowing).

I agree that it's likely the friction surge. That said, and I'm no scientist, just an engineer, but friction isn't what causes water resistance, correct? The resistance comes from displacing the mass of water that's in the space your trying to move your foot through. Lowering your coefficient of friction to zero would see no significant increase in ease of moving through water, because your leg still needs to move the water, right?

Surface tension wouldn't help either. Like you say Shardlet, the best that could do in my mind is allow you to walk ON the water, Jesus-style.

Unless it's the unknown surge, I still think friction is the most likely, with either a scientific goof on Sanderson's part or a lack of understanding of aerodynamic mechanics on mine.

Edit:I suppose it could be atmospheric pressure; somehow create an aerodynamic wall of outward pressing air that would slice through water, but Dalinar makes no mention of seeing the water move in front of the radiant.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Jaconis

[Musica]

I actually liked seeing Sadeas's POV. and I think his plan to rile up the other Highprinces and to stop the skirmishes in favor of a 'real war' which he apparenty desires so will come back to bite him if Dalinar and Navani play their hand right. I can just picture it:

 

Highprinces, all high and mighty and full of self-righteousness, come striding up to Dalinar and start going on about how the vengeance pact should be followed and how they should decalre an all-out war on the Parshendi, and Dalinar is all cool and calm and "Why, yes, that's exactly what I was planing do to. I was just waiting for you ignorant kids to realize that united we can actually accomplish something here. To war!"

-Highprinces follow Dalinar, leaving Sadeas behind looking all indignant and whatsnot, realizing that Dalinar got the better of him-

 

or not. it would be funny, though.

LOL

[Swimmingly]

Friction would work, acting like a coat of oil, I think. If friction is the loss of energy when two particles meet, reducing friction would effectively reduce drag, as pressure wouldn't be able to disperse itself as heat.

[Jaconis]

But you're still moving the water, which doesn't want to move. It would still be harder than moving through air at any rate because air has less mass and therefore requires less force to move.

If lack of friction was all that was needed to eliminate fluid resistance, then the shape of an object would have no bearing on its aerodynamic qualities. Only it's surface material would matter, which is not the case.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Jaconis

[Swimmingly]

But you're still moving the water, which doesn't want to move. It would still be harder than moving through air at any rate because air has less mass and therefore requires less force to move.

Shardplate provides the force. Friction eliminates the pesky hydrodynamics. Result? Walk right on through water.

[FeatherWriter]

On another re-read...I can't actually find a description of a soulcaster (other than gemstones being set into it). Anyone able to help?

 

Allow me! I've got a compilation from when I created my soulcaster, because my mom hadn't read it at the time and she was helping me with it.

 

On her freehand was a distinctive piece of jewelry: two rings and a bracelet connected by several chains, holding a triangular group of gemstones across the back of the hand.

(Ch. 5)

The gemstones set into Jasnah’s Soulcaster were enormous, some of the largest that Shallan had ever seen, worth many spheres each. One was smokestone, a pure glassy black gemstone. The second was a diamond. The third was a ruby. All three were cut— a cut stone could hold more Stormlight— into glistening, many-faceted oval shapes.

(Ch. 5)

She hefted the heavy construction of metal and chains. Then she put it on, looping chains around her thumb, small finger, and middle finger. There were no gemstones in the device at present.

(Ch. 33)

Jasnah slipped the chains around her fingers , securing the gemstones to the back of her hand.

(Ch. 36)

Jasnah wore her black, fingerless glove over her Soulcaster, hiding the light of its gemstones.

(Ch. 36)

[shallan] removed the forbidden device. It was heavy in her hand. Solid. Taking a deep breath, she looped the chains over her fingers and around her wrist, the gemstones set against the back of her hand. The metal was cold, the chains loose. She flexed her hand, pulling the fabrial tight.

(Ch. 39)

 

And finally, the part of my soulcaster which is inacurate: Jasnah's (and Shallan's) are both golden, whereas mine is silver. When looking for quotes about it, I searched "Soulcaster" and this little section just says "fuzzy golden object" so it didn't catch. :C

 

“You can’t Soulcast,” Shallan said weakly, pulling the ties of her pouch open. She upended it, vaguely seeing a fuzzy golden object slip out onto the floor , alongside the garnet that Kabsal had given her.

(Ch. 48)

 

 

Edited January 15, 2014 by FeatherWriter

[Shardlet]

No, Jaconis is right.  While friction definitely plays a role, the displacement of the water is a very significant role.  Dustbringers also have division which is likely, in my mind, directed to manipulating molecular bonds.  Water molecules are attracted to one another by polar bonds.  Via a combination of defeating those polar bonds and reducing friction between one's self and the water, one would likely have a noticeably greater ability to move through water than without such forces even considering displacement.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Shardlet

[Jaconis]

From the below website:

http://www.physics4kids.com/files/motion_friction.html

Friction only happens with solid objects, but you do get resistance to motion in both liquids and gases. This doesn't involve sliding surfaces like friction does, but is instead the kind of resistance you get if you try to push your way through a crowd. It's a colliding situation, not a sliding one. If the gas is air, this is referred to as air resistance

(Admittedly, it's a science for kids site, but it was the first thing on Google, and it explains it well enough)

[Jaconis]

No, Jaconis is right. While friction definitely plays a role, the displacement of the water is a very significant role. Dustbringers also have division which is likely, in my mind, directed to manipulating molecular bonds. Water molecules are attracted to one another by polar bonds. Via a combination of defeating those polar bonds and reducing friction between one's self and the water, one would likely have a noticeably greater ability to move through water than without such forces even considering displacement.

DIVISION! You're right Shardlet, that would explain the situation well enough for me.

I was looking for the surge to help explain it, and completely missed the other one attached to the most likely Order we're seeing.

(Sorry for the double post, got a little over eager...)

Edited January 15, 2014 by Jaconis

[Swimmingly]

No, Jaconis is right. While friction definitely plays a role, the displacement of the water is a very significant role. Dustbringers also have division which is likely, in my mind, directed to manipulating molecular bonds. Water molecules are attracted to one another by polar bonds. Via a combination of defeating those polar bonds and reducing friction between one's self and the water, one would likely have a noticeably greater ability to move through water than without such forces even considering displacement.

Oh I see.

[Shardlet]

From the below website:

http://www.physics4kids.com/files/motion_friction.html

(Admittedly, it's a science for kids site, but it was the first thing on Google, and it explains it well enough)

 

Actually you do get friction with both liquids and gases.  http://www.princeton.edu/~asmits/Bicycle_web/frictionflows.html

[Bloodfalcon]

If that Radiant was a master of Surface Tension, I'd think she would run ON the water. 

[Swimmingly]

If that Radiant was a master of Surface Tension, I'd think she would run ON the water.

Maybe she was waiting to use that, so the sudden tension in the water launched he upwards like a cork from a champagne bottle.

[Fistsofrage]

Seriously, whenever Kaladin is describing Adolin it sounds like he's describing Moash. Moash is to Kaladin as Adolin is to Dalinar

[Bloodfalcon]

Oh, also, on the topic of how many chapters we will get, we keep forgetting the Lift Interlude in our count. So we have Prologue, 1-5, and the Lift interlude.    7.

[Radda]

One thing has been bothering me. Just when is the epilogue to the WoK takes place? I mean, it's been two weeks and still no news about a Herald, or at least a Shardbearer claiming to be a Herald, from the capital?

Is it possible that Taln actually arrives later? Maybe connected with the whole sixty seven days thing?

[Unknowingly]

Don't forget the Ym Interlude and Rysn Interlude. That means we already have a total of 9! I'm not sure if I want to read this much of the book before it comes out  don't get me wrong, I'm loving getting this much information but it would be nice to savour the book as well...

 

Who am I kidding, its not like I'm going to skip these chapters when the book comes out, and ill love them just as much when I reread it as now

[shadewolf]

Oh, also, on the topic of how many chapters we will get, we keep forgetting the Lift Interlude in our count. So we have Prologue, 1-5, and the Lift interlude.    7.

 

don't forget rysn's interlude, so 8.

[Moogle]

Regarding the Friction Surge:

 

Cosmere physics are completely, 100%, fundamentally different. They just look similar. Gravity is Spiritual, not based on relevant mass. With that in mind, knowing that the Spiritual Realm includes how things are connected to each other, it seems likely that Friction just ignores those bonds. Any connection between you and the water is ignored while you use the Friction Surge, and it's like it isn't there as a result. There's no real-world physics or displacement issues to worry about, just what is connected to you and what isn't.

 

This hurts me as an engineer, but such is magic. Also: likely, most Surges have to deal with similar bond manipulation. Division isn't going to be nuclear fission, it's going to be severing Spiritual bonds like a Shardblade (but cooler).

Edited January 15, 2014 by Moogle

[Bloodfalcon]

Don't forget the Ym Interlude and Rysn Interlude. That means we already have a total of 9! I'm not sure if I want to read this much of the book before it comes out  don't get me wrong, I'm loving getting this much information but it would be nice to savour the book as well...

 

Who am I kidding, its not like I'm going to skip these chapters when the book comes out, and ill love them just as much when I reread it as now

Wow, I forgot those were even WoR somehow! 

[Scott]

I just realized that Dalinar, like Ned Stark, would have an Intrigue score of 0 in any Stormlight Archive game

 

If the chapters we've seen so far don't have "hooks", I'm a bit scared of what Peter is foreshadowing here haha.

[Natans]

We have Eshonai and Tavangian interludes too.

 

But interludes don't enter the "oficial count" in the book, they receive a in book number like I-1, I-2 (if I remember correctlly) =)

Edited January 15, 2014 by Natans

[+eveorjoy]

Were Eshonai and Ym interludes released by Tor? I don't remember that. Brandon did readings for them, but that isn't the same thing. He did a reading of Dalinar's chapter and Jasnah's prologue too and there was a lot more in Tor's release than in the readings.

 

Also, I hope the Tavangian interlude is much longer than what Tor released. It ends abruptly.

Edited January 15, 2014 by eveorjoy