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I will serve up my arm as a delicacy to my dog if that wasn't a fabrial in the Starfalls vision.

 

 

All I can say is that you have not one iota of evidence that it is a Fabrial...whereas, every piece of evidence in the books says otherwise : this is a cut and paste from my other post :

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/5137-final-surge/#entry84728

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In terms of the Knight Radiant carrying a 'Fabrial' - Dalinar tells Navani that he is certain the ancients possessed no Fabrials (sorry, I can't find that quote), and Dalinar gets a very good long look at the artefact that the Knight Radiant was carrying 

Quote

It was a topaz entwined with a heliodor, both set into a fine metal framework, each stone as big as a man's hand.

 

 

If you look at the Fabrial Picture at the start of Chapter 55, and the description of the spanreeds, halfshards, and Navani's painrial (Chapter 60) it becomes clear that Fabrials are gemstones set into functional/mechanical devices. The descriptions we have agree with Dalinar's assessment that it wasn't a Fabrial.

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Back to commentary : That's as much in the books as we have...and each piece that the book provides points to what the Knight Radiant carried as simply being gemstones.

 

Edit : it's pretty difficult to predict a scene like the glowing soldiers without the bond theory being right  :)

Edited by vikorr
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Considering that "[f]abrials can replicate all of the Surgebinding abilities", I think that modern fabrial science might not have plumbed the depths of what's possible. Also recall that fSoulcasters quite clearly break your "functional/mechanical" requirement for fabrials.

 

I always read Dalinar's "the ancients had no fabrials" as in the context of the run-of-the-mill people not having fabrials, not the super-special-awesome KR.

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Drat, soulcasters do break that  :unsure:

 

Nice pick up.

 

Edit : even so, with the soulcaster, the gems are inset (if I recall the description correctly), whereas the Starfalls vision one is just held with metal (which is easily explained as necessity to keep the two gems together on a battlefield)

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Drat, soulcasters do break that  :unsure:

 

Nice pick up.

 

Edit : even so, with the soulcaster, the gems are inset (if I recall the description correctly), whereas the Starfalls vision one is just held with metal (which is easily explained as necessity to keep the two gems together on a battlefield)

Erm, what is the difference between a gem in a setting(Soulcaster) and a gem held by metal framework? Isn't framework, well, a kind of setting? We don't even know what that framework looks like... Mind you, my own idea is that it was a proto-fabrial that had to be charged by KR (hence "keeping Regrowth" rather than "keeping Stormlight", that could probably be transferred from other stones (not sure about that))

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Erm, what is the difference between a gem in a setting(Soulcaster) and a gem held by metal framework? Isn't framework, well, a kind of setting? We don't even know what that framework looks like... Mind you, my own idea is that it was a proto-fabrial that had to be charged by KR (hence "keeping Regrowth" rather than "keeping Stormlight", that could probably be transferred from other stones (not sure about that))

 

What then is the difference between a normal gemstone & a fabrial? If you place two gemstones in a pouch, do you suddenly get a fabrial? Of course not. What if you put two gemstones on a table touching each other - are they now a fabrial? Of course not. There has to be more to it than just something holding two gemstones together.

 

On that basis - I'll go back to the setting needing to be functional. I doubt Brandon made Fabrial science willy nilly.

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My thoughts on chapter 3,4, and 5. (Yay! More chapters. I hope we do get to read 5 more chapters before March 4.)

Chapter 3 "Pattern"

    *Does Dalinar know Jasnah's first book focused on the KR? I hope he will be contacting her by spanreed soon. I'm really looking forward to a conversation between Jasnah, Dalinar, and Kaladin.
 
    *I hope the sketch of the pattern is in the book.

    *Did Jasnah somehow know Shallan had finally bonded with a spren? Did Ivory tell her? Jasnah has a spren. That is so awesome. I'd love to see a conversation between Ivory and Syl.

    *The embossed look of the Cryptic reminded me of other Cosmere stories. Of course, the spren in general reminded me of that as well.

    *By the way, Jasnah had a proper white glove on her safehand, while Shallan invited her in barehand. The scandal.

    *I think the Cryptic will become more intelligent as it is around Shallan.

    *I hope we learn how the Radiances betrayed the spren. Does it have anything to do with why Syl hates shardblades?

    *The Cryptic's rule one city in Shadesmar not all of it. I wonder if Honorspren are their rivals for power or rule another city. On a side note, I hope Shallan and Kaladin become good friends, while their spren always bicker.
   
    *I think Shallan will notice Syl, even if Jasnah does not.  
    
    *Odium is the StormFather? Then why does Dalinar get Tanavast's voicemail during Highstorms? Was Odium talking to Kaladin in his storm prompted dream?

    *In case you had any doubts, Cultivation is in Shenovar and is the Nightwatcher. Szeth's book is going to be very interesting.   

    *Jasnah's "heretical" ideas still bother Shallan.

    *Wonder if Sanderson only started calling Cryptics liespren because they had been called truthspren by the fans after his prompting.
    
    *I hope we get a Shallan flashback soon.
    
    *My favorite line of the chapter: "“Yes,” Jasnah said lightly. “Spren don’t suffer from human society’s prejudices. Refreshing, wouldn’t you say?”" A classic feminist after my own heart.

 
Chapter 4 "Taker of Secrets"

    *A Dalinar chapter? Okay so the structure of WoR is different from TWoKs. I wonder if Szeth will get a chapter other than an interlude.

    *Who is Sja-anat? Odium? A human servant of Odium?

    *Is the Thunderclast in this chapter foreshadowing a later appearance in WoR?

    *Called it. I knew Dalinar was being told by Honor to reform the KR. I wonder if uniting the Highprinces is even necessary to do so.

    *So, were the other soldiers who glowed surgebinders or was the KR giving them stormlight?

    *"Captain Kaladin and his bridgeman bodyguards" That would be a great title for a comic or B-movie.

    *While he no longer believes the Almighty is god, Dalinar holds on to his belief in a god. Another interesting conversation with Jasnah I look forward too.

    *Why can't Dalinar and Navani marry? In TWoKs Navani said such a union was frowned upon but not forbidden.

    *I like that Dalinar calls Kaladin "Soldier." It seems as if he is honoring Kaladin whenever he uses it, telling him "I don't see you as just a former slave."

    *I'm not sure why Dalinar fell asleep, but I don't think an assassin wrote those glyphs on the wall. My guess is it was a Parshendi or Parshman giving Dalinar a warning. Maybe even Shen. However, it is too early to say. It is also possible Dalinar wrote it himself, a troubling thought. This and one other passage make me wonder if he is the destroyer after all.
    
    *Dalinar's exhaustion makes wonder if he will die in this book. If he does, he first needs to pass his information to Kaladin or Jasnah. Then again perhaps Navani's notes will be enough. He still might not die, but being tired is not a good sign.
   
    *Silly fangirl moment. I was very excited to see Kaladin and Dalinar interact. Kaladin rescuing Dalinar and Dalinar freeing Kaladin are my favorite parts of TWoKs. It is also interesting to see what Dalinar thinks of Kaladin.

    *Called it again. Adolin dislikes Kaladin. Wonder where this will lead.

    
Chapter 5 "Ideals"

     *It appears Moash was right. The lighteyes are getting a bit resentful of Kaladin and his bridgeman bodyguards. However, to be fair, having the poor woman repeat the message several times may have been part of her annoyance.

     *I'm glad Rock will have two choices of food. I want to try real horneater stew. I like my food crunchy.

     *I laughed when Sigzil took Kaladin's grunt as agreement to have his surgebinder powers tested. I'm looking forward to that chapter.

     *Syl always asks why Kaladin doesn't express certain emotions. She is like his personal therapist.

     *"“Something bad is going to happen,” Kaladin said. “Things can’t just continue to be good for me. That’s not how life is. It might have to do with those glyphs on Dalinar’s wall yesterday. They seemed like a countdown.”"  It is almost as if he knows he is in a book and the author loves to screw with his life. I bet he would hate Sanderson far more than any lighteyes.
     
     *All I have to say about Sadeas's POV is this. It didn't bother me that his goal was to take over the world because I don't think he is the main villain. I found his wife interesting. In addition, I think the point of the scene was to show much he had fallen under Odium's sway and that he is going to try to cause trouble for the Kholins. I get the feeling with what is coming Sadeas needs to be only what he is and nothing more. I think Wit/Hoid implied this was what he was like all along.

     *Wouldn't it stink if one of Ialai's spies saw Kaladin surgebind?

     *Moash and Kaladin, best friends forever.

     *"The king stared at Kaladin for a moment, then turned to Dalinar. “I like this one. Why haven’t you put him in charge of your guard before?”" LOL. Eloikar has found the perfect bodyguard.
     
     *"“Speaking frankly,” Kaladin said—he wouldn’t ask for permission. This man had put him in the role, so Kaladin would assume it came with certain privileges, unless told otherwise. “Every man I’ve ever called ‘Brightlord’ has betrayed me. A few men I’ve called ‘sir’ still have my trust to this day. I use one more reverently than the other. Sir.”"

 

There is so much subtext here. I think Dalinar is affecting Kaladin more than he realizes. Deep down Kaladin really does trust him. That is remarkable considering. In fact it is so unusual even he is fighting against it. I love Dalinar's response as well.
     
     *Eloikar is so prissy as well as whiny. Galivar dropped the ball with him, but I get the feeling he wasn't much of a family man.

     *"“Alethkar ended as a kingdom centuries ago,” Dalinar said softly, staring out that window. “This thing we have created is not Alethkar. Alethkar was justice. We are children wearing our father’s cloak.”"

 

I hope Dalinar lets go of uniting the nitwit Highprinces by the end of the book. I think Alethkar, as it is now, needs to be destroyed. Maybe that is one of the ways Dalinar will be a destroyer and that might be a good thing. Of course, I could be completely wrong.

     *Kaladin comparing Dalinar and the rest to Amaram is very interesting.

     *I love the plan of having Adolin win the other princes’ shardblades.

     *I hope Dalinar leaves most of the political persuasion to Navani.
     
     *I don't think Kaladin trusts Dalinar enough yet to tell him what he can do, though he is close. I do see him considering having Teft talk with Dalinar. One way or another I do think he will try to help.
 

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What then is the difference between a normal gemstone & a fabrial? If you place two gemstones in a pouch, do you suddenly get a fabrial? Of course not. What if you put two gemstones on a table touching each other - are they now a fabrial? Of course not. There has to be more to it than just something holding two gemstones together.

 

On that basis - I'll go back to the setting needing to be functional. I doubt Brandon made Fabrial science willy nilly.

 

Yeah there really hasn't been much on the fabrial side of things so far. From the artwork from WoK, we know that by using different gem stones on a fabrial, you produce different results; so gem properties seem to be an important aspect to fabrial creation, but alot still has to be given to us. I suspect we might be given an overview, when Navani examines Shallens destroyed soulcaster.

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I found this article while searching for it :

 

http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Navani%27s_Notebook

 

I hope it's not wrong to post a different website. It actually shows that the fabrial has to do with the gemstone - or more precisely, the trapping of a spren in a gemstone (and then it's put in a functional setting)...it doesn't quite make sense with a soulcaster, though it makes sense with all the other fabrial we know of.

 

Poor spren.

Edited by vikorr
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I found this article while searching for it :

 

http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Navani%27s_Notebook

 

I hope it's not wrong to post a different website. It actually shows that the fabrial has to do with the gemstone - or more precisely, the trapping of a spren in a gemstone (and then it's put in a functional setting)...it doesn't quite make sense with a soulcaster, though it makes sense with all the other fabrial we know of.

 

Poor spren.

Well, we have the similar page on Coppermind, actually. So, as far as we know, fabrial as a machine is a set of one to several gems, some or all with spren trapped within, and each gem cut just so and infused with Stormlight, aligned in some setting that channels the effect to some extent. Apparently (from WoR chapter) the gems may need to be aligned just right for the thing to work, so the outer framework may be just for that, in some cases. (Imagines a giant robot fabrial shooting death rays, with half-shard armor plating)

 

Also, as an aside, Cryptics, with patterns and apparent love of secrets for some reason remind me of this guy :D And the pattern seems to be a fractal.

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Hi Moogle

 

Heliodors can be red (or yellow). The ease of movement through water may also be explained through the ‘Surface Tension’ surge, rather than friction – by reducing the surface tension of the water.

 

So here we have the armour glowing red...but :

 

Here we have her stormlight glowing a calm white.

 

This by the way, isn't a blazing light, but a calm light - which is important in comparison to her soldiers.

 

This only happens after the Knight Radiant starts glowing (which makes sense if she is bonded to them), and appears to occur all at once (which would also make sense if she is bonded to them), and it is dimmer than the 'calm light' that the KR has (which again makes sense if she is bonded to them)

 

I like your theory. Surface Tension might be able to do what you're saying, but unfortunately the Surgebinding chart is very clear on the color being a very terrible red (seriously, who did the coloring for this chart? I will pay you to re-do that red it's like orangey). Orders 8/9/10 all cannot be thought of as red.

 

I also feel that the men glowing with Stormlight that's fainter is more easily explained by them being Surgebinders themselves. Radiants in training, as it were. As you swear more Ideals, you get stronger with Stormlight, so these guys, who might not have sworn any Ideals, would naturally glow fainter because they're weaker.

Edited by Moogle
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@eveorjoy : I agree with you about the Cryptics. Not sure why we collectively assumed that they were the absolute rulers of Shadesmar. In the chapter it says "the are the rulers of ONE of the greater cities" seems to imply the spren have their own factions/nations the same as the physical realm. I wonder if the Honorspren are also the rulers of a city in Shadesmar.

 

Also, I agree that something changed with Sadeas between the end of tWoK and WoR, which is most likely related to the shardblade. In tWoK he seemed to be someone who believed he was working for the greater good, even if he actually wasnt. Whereas now he's just someone who wants to rule the world and get his warm fuzzy battle feelings.

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Also, I agree that something changed with Sadeas between the end of tWoK and WoR, which is most likely related to the shardblade. In tWoK he seemed to be someone who believed he was working for the greater good, even if he actually wasnt. Whereas now he's just someone who wants to rule the world and get his warm fuzzy battle feelings.

 

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. I for one never saw this 'greater good' business in TWoK from Sadeas. His POV matches him in TWoK, ie. boring villain. Every time he brought things up with Dalinar, it seemed designed to manipulate Dalinar into trusting him, and his actions never matched his stated goals anyways. All of our interpretations of Sadeas came from Dalinar too, so they were tainted by the fact that Dalinar is incompetent at politics.

 

Besides, if it was the Shardblade, why didn't Dalinar want to rule and kill things? Oh wait, he did and does... there might be something to this theory. Hrm. Still, Dalinar doesn't seem changed at all for having given up the Blade.

 

I also feel blaming Odium for everything is the easy way out. Odium might have been toying with men (the Thrill is definitely off), but sometimes people are just stinkers. Sadeas falls into this camp.

 

Edit: Reread it, his comment on him growing to loathe the competition for gemhearts might imply a sudden change, as does his musings that maybe a stable kingdom isn't worth it anymore. The fact that he loves his wife because she's dangerous doesn't do him any favors, though. I hope Sadeas plays little to no part in the story, but that's not happening because his wife is apparently a master of assassins by the score. Ugh. Here's to hoping Szeth unceremoniously kills him on the way to Dalinar and he's never mentioned again.

Edited by Moogle
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Sixty-two days, the glyphs read. Death follows.

“Ah,” said Rushu—a young female ardent with long eyelashes and buttonlike lips. “Look at the sloppy lines! The improper symmetry. Whoever did this is not practiced with drawing glyphs. They almost spelled death wrong—it looks more like ‘broken.’ And the meaning is vague. Death follows? Or is it ‘follow death’? Or Sixty-Two Days of Death and Following? Glyphs are imprecise.”

 

 

looks like Szeth will get there in 62 days! or at least that's my theory- I mean, he is the Assasin in White, and death follows in his wake and all that, and you can say that he is broken, too, and I find the "it looks more like ‘broken.’" line highly suspicious (of course, I might just be pointing out the obvious- or being compeletely wrong).

 

Also, I find it interesting how poeple speculated that the writer of the message is a spren (which I agree with), but not just a pren- Dalinar's or maybe even Renarin's, but Navani notes at the beggining of the chapter that the countdown possesed less danger than the note itself- predicting the future is of the Voidbringers. Well, if it was Dalinar's spren, what does it mean for Dalinar? We think him a Bondsmith and assume he will have a spren of Honor's, but "Seeing the future is not of Honor" as Syl said to Kaladin. So how?

And if it was Renarin's spren (which I don't really think it is, honestly) what might that mean for him? for who he is going to become?

What if it's neither of those? Who else would leave such a message?

 

questions, questions.

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I think it's safe to rule out that the message is Szeth related. I doubt Szeth or Taravangian would give any warning let alone 62 days, and it doesn't explain why the writer wrote it so sloppily.

 

Almost all of Navani's journal excerpts we've seen refer to the Parshendi in some way. So given this context the most likely scenario is the message referring to something the Parshendi are about to do. Whether this is the start of the next desolation/everstorm, as Dalinar believes, I'm more sceptical of. 

 

The question of who wrote the message is an interesting one. It seems doubtful that it's a Parshendi, with the exception of Shen I don't see how they would get in to write it (unless the Parshendi have a Ninja form). And why would they want to?So currently the Spren theory seems most likely, but would a Spren be able to lift the rock and write on the wall with it? Syl struggled with the blackbane leaf. That suggests someone under the influence of a Spren as being the most likely theory currently. Since they would probably be the ones with the knowledge to write the message, and are likely to have poor handwriting.

 

Conclusion: The message references an action the Parshendi are about to undertake, whether this is the next desolation or not remains to be seen but it probably involves Stormform. The message probably wasn't written by the Parshendi but a Spren without the help of a human also seems unlikely. So Dalinar or someone else under the influence of one?

Edited by Moist_von_Lipwig
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I would say that complexity vs integrity sounds about right. They both disdain the others as foolish. The cryptics call the honorspren's honour and integrity naive, while the honorspren call the cryptic's complexity and subtlety disingenuous.

This doesn't seem reason enough for a conflict though imho.

 

 

Since cryptics are seen as the lighteyes of Shadesmar, I believe they are of Adonalsium (they have to rule cause they are splinter of the original power of creation).

 

This is what made me suspicious to start. I think that in this instance Jasnah's spren informed her here, and therefore the fact that there is a "conflict" might be either wrong or not the whole truth.

 

Her idea that cryptics are like a light eyes analog is mistaken because she thinks light eyes are princely, not because cryptics are not princely. Meaning she is not necessarily wrong about liespren (I think the name liespren is wrong) but the idea that light eyes embody princely characters is wrong and colored by her own bias.

 

I am VERY suspicious of Jasnah's spren since they are dark and oily - reminds me of those icky creatures from Dalinar's vision.

 

I think maybe Jashnah's spren are not of honor or cultivation. 

 

I can get behind cryptics being of cultivation because they seem to seek the truth - or cultivate it as pointed out earlier. 

 

Brandon said truthspren was as good a name as any - this seems to indicate that Jasnah's name of liespren might be erroneous or her understanding of them might be due to either 1) her spren misinforming her or 2) her research sources being faulty.

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Don't read the next comment the wrong way, I loved each of the chapters so far. But for me personally, I wish they would have limited the early released chapters to the prologue and ch. 1-3.  That would have been a good tease and a hook.  I would have preferred to have more of the book unread by the time I get it in my hands.  But, my anticipation level has been so high that I just can't resist reading.  ^_^

I'm the same way. Some of those things I feel I would have enjoyed on day one while holding the book, buuuuut on the other hand, now I have a head start on reading and finishing. You all will be done within a day-ish. It will take me a bit longer (unless I try to read the ebook at work, which isn't exactly ethical but also isn't exactly irresistible).

 

Pfft. You haven't seen the hook(s) yet.

 

You could have literally only released the Navani journal entry pieces of those chapters and I would have been more than hooked. I'm actually a little bit frightened by the events you might consider to be "hooks"

 

* the glyph written in Dalinar's chamber was written in stone. Can stone act on Roshar like metal on Scadrial?

I like this idea a lot and have a question. Was metal blinding because of the planet it was on, or was it specific to Ruin and Preservation because of some investment decisions they made? Perhaps stone is only a problem for Odium. It doesn't seem like the other Shards concern themselves with stone, but Odium has Thunderclasts and there is the whole Shin stone shaman thing... I'd really appreciate if someone could point me in the direction of understanding this one!

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You could have literally only released the Navani journal entry pieces of those chapters and I would have been more than hooked. I'm actually a little bit frightened by the events you might consider to be "hooks"

 

so true! but i still want more...:) 

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I'm the same way. Some of those things I feel I would have enjoyed on day one while holding the book, buuuuut on the other hand, now I have a head start on reading and finishing. You all will be done within a day-ish. It will take me a bit longer (unless I try to read the ebook at work, which isn't exactly ethical but also isn't exactly irresistible).

You could have literally only released the Navani journal entry pieces of those chapters and I would have been more than hooked. I'm actually a little bit frightened by the events you might consider to be "hooks"

I like this idea a lot and have a question. Was metal blinding because of the planet it was on, or was it specific to Ruin and Preservation because of some investment decisions they made? Perhaps stone is only a problem for Odium. It doesn't seem like the other Shards concern themselves with stone, but Odium has Thunderclasts and there is the whole Shin stone shaman thing... I'd really appreciate if someone could point me in the direction of understanding this one!

Mhmm. The hooks are gonna go in nasty and come out bloody, in my opinion. Someone gonna die, and it ain't gonna be pretty.
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I see a lot of people being discouraged by the Sadeas POV and saying that he's a typical mustache twirling villain.  I think it just reenforced his interesting qualities from WoK.  He's essentially a junky for The Thrill, and he's tricked himself into thinking what he's doing is for the betterment of the kingdom.  In one hand he says HE wants to untied the Highprinces in his own fashion and then thinks about how best to destroy Dalinar for trying to do just that.  His mind is obviously messed up.  He still feels genuine respect and what seems like love for his wife, which is an interesting tidbit for him (no Straff Venture all over again {yeesh that guy was the wurst}). He wants those glorious contests to continue and as some have pointed out in this thread already his lust for The Thrill could be accelerated by his acquisition of Oathbringer.  I'm really looking forward to what we see from him in future chapters.  It was interesting that his POV came in the middle of a Kaladin chapter as well, I wonder if that's of any significance. 

 

Final thoughts: Mark my words Sadeas is a Thrill junkie!

 

Edit: I little fishy told me I got something wrong.  Thanks Swimmingly!

Edited by AG Rooster
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I see a lot of people being discouraged by the Sadeas POV and saying that he's a typical mustache twirling villain.  I think it just reenforced his interesting qualities from WoK.  He's essentially a junky for The Thrill, and he's tricked himself into thinking what he's doing is for the betterment of the kingdom.  In one hand he says HE wants to untied the Highprinces in his own fashion and then thinks about how best to destroy Dalinar for trying to do just that.  His mind is obviously messed up.  He still feels genuine respect and what seems like love for his wife, which is an interesting tidbit for him (no Straff Venture all over again {yeesh that guy was the wurst}). He wants those glorious contests to continue and as some have pointed out in this thread already his lust for The Thrill could be accelerated by his acquisition of Oathkeeper.  I'm really looking forward to what we see from him in future chapters.  It was interesting that his POV came in the middle of a Kaladin chapter as well, I wonder if that's of any significance. 

 

Final thoughts: Mark my words Sadeas is a Thrill junkie!

I believe it's actually Oathbringer, as if that matters. Knowing Brandon, it probably will.

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Thrill juke huh...., if the thrill is indeed of Odium this would be a very smoth move, make everyone that fight fell this thing so he could corrupt them, not that Sadeas need much corruption to be a selfishy jerk =)

 

I hope that the hook are some awesome fight scene with Kal or Adolin(preference for the first one) making sport of someone. Bonus points if somene try "test" Kaladin legend and receive a fist hand lesson about how to use a spear ;)

 

Sidenote: I like the fact that in Kal Chapter he is analising everyone, from Navani to Renarim. (Adolin Spoilled and Cocky maked me laugh), Sanderson maked Adolin and Kal "rivals", Kaladin fast ascension maked him jealous because he never had this kind of competition for his father attetion, would be very nice if they see theu spar a little =)

 

Also I liked that another character are calling Kaladin Kal like we do, it's is only a little thing put is noce to see theis kind of interection(give a nickname) between characters.

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Thrill juke huh...., if the thrill is indeed of Odium this would be a very smoth move, make everyone that fight fell this thing so he could corrupt them, not that Sadeas need much corruption to be a selfishy jerk =)

 

 

Also I liked that another character are calling Kaladin Kal like we do, it's is only a little thing put is noce to see theis kind of interection(give a nickname) between characters.

What if someone started calling him Aladin? Syl is kind of like a genie.

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