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Chapters 3-5 up on Tor


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Dalinar's chapter has Ishar.

So I guess Bondsmiths are #10.

I've suspected that for a while. After all, order 10's surges are Pressure (used to BIND things together) and Surface Tension (also a form of bond). It made a lot of sense to me. 

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"They are attracted to liars - and they force them to voice the truth. They change you for the better, in fact. One might almost say they CULTIVATE honesty. "

Aha- now that is a connection that makes sense! +1!

I can see how that would work- but why the conflict w honor spren?

Cryptic - not dishonest, but thriving in complexity.

Honorspren - not simplistic, but thriving in integrity.

I would say that complexity vs integrity sounds about right. They both disdain the others as foolish. The cryptics call the honorspren's honour and integrity naive, while the honorspren call the cryptic's complexity and subtlety disingenuous.

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Please educate at your earliest convinience

 

Each Radiant's Shardplate glows with the color of their associated gemstone. Windrunners glow blue (sapphire), Stonewardens glow yellow (topaz), so when we see a Radiant with Shardplate glowing red, we know they're Dustbringers because they're associated with rubies. Combine that with the fact that the Radiant has Friction (which lets him move as though the water is not there), and we can be 99.99999% certain.

Edited by Moogle
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Each Radiant's Shardplate glows with the color of their associated gemstone. Windrunners glow blue (sapphire), Stonewardens grow yellow (topaz), so when we see a Radiant with Shardplate glowing red, we know they're Dustbringers because they're associated with rubies. Combine that with the fact that the Radiant has Friction (which lets him move as though the water is not there), and we can be 99.99999% certain.

 

Danke schön

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Each Radiant's Shardplate glows with the color of their associated gemstone. Windrunners glow blue (sapphire), Stonewardens glow yellow (topaz), so when we see a Radiant with Shardplate glowing red, we know they're Dustbringers because they're associated with rubies. Combine that with the fact that the Radiant has Friction (which lets him move as though the water is not there), and we can be 99.99999% certain.

 

1hp06i.jpg

 

 

=)

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Don't mean to get petty here but does anyone remember when I suggested Just that (in reference to Vorinism and the Heirocracy altering knowledge) and ya'll were all "No, it was the Sunmaker, he promoted The Thrill and is a puppet of Odium"?  Not saying that's not also true, I'm just saying that my early forum theories are in line with a young heretic Jasnah.  Good company  B)

I can't say that Sunmaker didn't alter records, or that the Hierocracy didn't alter them. What I can say is that History is written by the victor, and Sunmaker was the last man standing, and was thus able to write and blame whatever history he wished.  Remember that your referencing in world material and that can change at a moment's notice.

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Each Radiant's Shardplate glows with the color of their associated gemstone. Windrunners glow blue (sapphire), Stonewardens glow yellow (topaz), so when we see a Radiant with Shardplate glowing red, we know they're Dustbringers because they're associated with rubies. Combine that with the fact that the Radiant has Friction (which lets him move as though the water is not there), and we can be 99.99999% certain.

 

"Her". The Radiant is female! *is very protective of female shardbearers*

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I have to say that "liespren" makes loads more sense to me than truthspren ever did. If I hadn't been so late to the forums I would definitely argued against that one. (Though my name for them was "stalkerspren" and would not have been adopted by anyone.)

 

Two thoughts One thought on this: (I moved the other to its own post)

If the cryptics are in charge of Shadesmar, then no wonder the nature of the place is obfuscated and unknown. I doubt we can thank revisionist Vorin historians for all the misinformation or lost details.

Edited by ccstat
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Sixty-two days, the glyphs read. Death follows.

“Ah,” said Rushu—a young female ardent with long eyelashes and buttonlike lips. “Look at the sloppy lines! The improper symmetry. Whoever did this is not practiced with drawing glyphs. They almost spelled death wrong—it looks more like ‘broken.’ And the meaning is vague. Death follows? Or is it ‘follow death’? Or Sixty-Two Days of Death and Following? Glyphs are imprecise.”

 

Anyone want to bet that this is in no way 'almost spelled wrong'? It sounds like the people could be something broken and there be death.

 

Edit: Something small I also didn't remark on, but holy crap is Sadeas a boring villain. His motivations are literally "I want to conquer everything just 'cuz, also my wife has assassins." Does he have any redeeming qualities? His short POV killed what little depth he might have had from TWoK.

 

Actually - how many boring fantasy villains are in love with their non-supermodel, middle-aged wives? That's definitely a new twist on the stereotype. And Brandon's set up Alethi culture to make the conquer-everything mentality pretty "normal"

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OK, finished reading....

Here are some of the things that I find interesting...

 

* like I said above, Dalinar's chapter has 2xIshar, so there are still chances Bondsmiths are of Ishar #10. This would vindicate me a lot (I think I am the first to argue Dalinar was #10 and bring proofs)

 

* I think it's clear that the radiant in Dalinar's vision was a Dustbringer. Friction and Division. Probably used Friction to move fast in the water. What if the other soldiers were not trainees, but she used Division to somehow empower them? (divide her power among them?)

 

* the glyph written in Dalinar's chamber was written in stone. Can stone act on Roshar like metal on Scadrial?

 

* liespren. Probably because they are attracted to lies. For me it's obvious liespren are not of Cultivation or Honor. They are clearly not of Honor, and are in conflict with honorspren, which I doubt cultivationspren would be. Since cryptics are seen as the lighteyes of Shadesmar, I believe they are of Adonalsium (they have to rule cause they are splinter of the original power of creation).

 

* I wonder if Shallan drawing her spren better would have made it more ... intelligent. My impression is that her drawing "fixed" the spren in the physical, but with a certain loss of ... cognition. Hopefully her spren will develop fast :)

 

* Interesting tidbits about Ivory... esp. since some (cultivation)spren were "sent" to bond, while Ivory's act is seen as treasonous... Looks to me Ivory is a smokespren or oilspren :) but with a high dose of Honor... seriously now, I think Ivory is a honorspren.

 

* my initial thought about the writer of the glyph was Szeth... but now I'm sure it was not Szeth - he would not have "desecrated" stone. From the Parshendi reading, I don't think they are that aware to predict the exact number of days to the desolation. I thought that maybe Taravangian's spy did that (and Taravangian would maybe know the number of days). But I like better the idea that Renarin was the one to write the glyphs on Dalinar's wall - since Taravangian's spy would have had a better mastery of the glyphs. Or maybe Dalinar himself, which would be way disturbing. How did Dalinar know what was written on the wall? I thought he did not know how to read or write...

 

* Sadeas seems genuinely affected by the Blade - his thirst for Thrill increased.

 

Can't wait for the next chapters!

 

PS - I'm assuming there will be 10 chapters released for preview, because 10 is the important number. 

Edited by marianmi
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Actually - how many boring fantasy villains are in love with their non-supermodel, middle-aged wives? That's definitely a new twist on the stereotype. And Brandon's set up Alethi culture to make the conquer-everything mentality pretty "normal"

Besides, he's pretty obviously touched by Odium. The way he reveres the Thrill is unsettling, to say the least.
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I can't say I'm on board with all this talk of this or that being "of Odium" or "touched by Odium" or the like. Human nature can count for quite a lot.

Tangent: I keep thinking of that scene in The Mummy Returns "He ain't happy without a good curse. 'This is cursed. That is cursed.'" :P

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I can't say I'm on board with all this talk of this or that being "of Odium" or "touched by Odium" or the like. Human nature can count for quite a lot.

Tangent: I keep thinking of that scene in The Mummy Returns "He ain't happy without a good curse. 'This is cursed. That is cursed.'" :P

Kurk, he's obsessing over the warm fuzzies killing in battle gives him, warm fuzzies that shiver from the profane form of the god of hatred. He's pretty damnation evil already; but somehow I think the whole 'killing makes you happy' thing doesn't help.
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How did Dalinar know what was written on the wall? I thought he did not know how to read or write...

Men can read glyphs, which is what the writing was in. Alethi script would have been another matter.

 

Also, you have some good points on the alignment of spren. I'm not sure I'm convinced yet (I currently still think cryptics are Cultivation) but I'll keep my eyes open for evidence that you're right.

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I can't say I'm on board with all this talk of this or that being "of Odium" or "touched by Odium" or the like. Human nature can count for a lot.

While I agree that we can't say that Odium accounts for EVERY moment of people being hate filled, or down right malicious, Sadeas that out says that he lusts and thrives for dominance on the battle field. Not even making him a Shardbearer fills the void of his need for omnipotence.

 

He lives for the Thrill. He lives for Odium.

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While I agree that we can't say that Odium accounts for EVERY moment of people being hate filled, or down right malicious, Sadeas that out says that he lusts and thrives for dominance on the battle field. Not even making him a Shardbearer fills the void of his need for omnipotence.

 

He lives for the Thrill. He lives for Odium.

I vote that the Thrill be referred to as the murderous warm fuzzies from now on.
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I laughed out loud when I saw Cryptics called "liespren". :lol:

 

Brandon/Peter must have been holding back laughter for years at us calling them "Truthspren".

 

Wait just a minute! I was looking at the interview for an unrelated reason, but this is all Brandon's fault!  :angry:

 

Source:

3. Zas: There is a debate on what to call Shallan’s Symbols, so we don’t have such an ambiguous term for it .

 

Brandon: The Symbolhead?

 

Zas: Yeah, the Symbolhead, Shallanspren,

 

Brandon: (laughter)

 

Zas: We don’t really know what to call them.

 

Brandon: Do I want to canonize this yet?

 

Zas: You don’t have to canonize it yet.

 

Brandon: I don’t know if I want to canonize it yet. But I willsay this. They are spren, that should be pretty obvious. They are the sprenconnected to what Shallan is capable of doing. But I don’t know if I want to canonize it yet. Truthspren is as good a name as any, and I would suggest you use that until further notice.

 

To be fair, then, I guess that Brandon was acknowledging the truth/lie dialectic. I suppose that the theory that the strength of the truth depends on the depth of the lies has some merit.

Edited by Kurkistan
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So we have another BWFWU. I'll Upvote any one who figures out what that acronym is, I've said it enough times. :rolleyes:

 

Why else was he laughing? LoL.

 

Really there is a severe dichometry(did I just make up a word? Dichotomy base) with the Cryptics being Lie-spren, but asking for truth.

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In regards to liespren, I still think they are attracted to secrets, to truths unspoken, unaccepted or hidden under lies rather than lies themselves, hence a "Cryptic".

Also, I hereby ship Jasnah and Ivory :D

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Brandon Was… 'Fuzzing' (for lack of a better word) With Us?

Yaaaa we'll go with that. I'm a man of my word.

 

You know Satsuoni, I think that there's a distinct possibility Jasnah is not interested in serious relationships at all, but Ivory provides the interest?  for her to study.

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Hi Moogle

 

Each Radiant's Shardplate glows with the color of their associated gemstone. Windrunners glow blue (sapphire), Stonewardens glow yellow (topaz), so when we see a Radiant with Shardplate glowing red, we know they're Dustbringers because they're associated with rubies. Combine that with the fact that the Radiant has Friction (which lets him move as though the water is not there), and we can be 99.99999% certain.

 

 

Heliodors can be red (or yellow). The ease of movement through water may also be explained through the ‘Surface Tension’ surge, rather than friction – by reducing the surface tension of the water.

 

My own theory is that the Knight is Dalinar’s vision is a Bondsmith, because I predicted the very scenario of a squad of soldiers glowing, just a couple of days before the chapter was published.

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/5137-final-surge/

 

I hope the link worked properly.

What if...what if the last surge allowed the KR to form (and manipulate) a bond with others? That, in conjunction with the gem could explain both the healing and the 'call me and I will hear'.

 

...and if you don't quite follow the healing through a bond - stormlight heals, so if you form a bond with another person, and have a large gem full of stormlight...

 

That might sound like a rather weak ability, until you consider you may well be able to form multiple bonds, and if you have a large enough gem - you'd end up with quite a squad.

 

 

This would place this Knight Radiant as a Stoneward.

 

Not just a Shardbearer. Radiant. A knight in resplendent Shardplate that glowed with a deep red at the joints and in certain markings. Armor did that in the shadowdays. This vision was taking place before the Recreance.

 

So here we have the armour glowing red...but :

 

The knight stood before the rising creature, which stood thirty feet tall, dripping water. A calm, white light began to rise from her.

 

Here we have her stormlight glowing a calm white.

 

This by the way, isn't a blazing light, but a calm light - which is important in comparison to her soldiers.

 

 Beyond him, the fight began in earnest, water splashing, rock grinding. Soldiers approached bearing hammers, and unexpectedly, these men now also glowed with Stormlight, though far more faintly.

 

 

This only happens after the Knight Radiant starts glowing (which makes sense if she is bonded to them), and appears to occur all at once (which would also make sense if she is bonded to them), and it is dimmer than the 'calm light' that the KR has (which again makes sense if she is bonded to them)

 

If they were KR in training, as suggested elsewhere - they would still be surgebinders, and :

- some would surely have absorbed stormlight prior to the KR (which none did); and

- they would have started glowing at different times (which we have no evidence of, and surely it would have been obvious); and

- they would each have absorbed different amounts, meaning they would have glowed at different brightnesses (which doesn't happen); and

- some would have been slightly brighter than the KR, who only had a 'calm white light' about her (but this is not the case)

- they would have displayed their own individual surgebinding abilities (which they don't)

 

A Bonding surge explains this behaviour (which I predicted, yay!), AND the STARFALLS vision regarding the 'ability to communicate over distance', and the ability to heal with a gem (which doesn't appear to be a fabrial)...although Shardlet won't like that last. 

 

removed edit 

Edited by vikorr
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Heliodors can be red (or yellow). The ease of movement through water may also be explained through the ‘Surface Tension’ surge, rather than friction – by reducing the surface tension of the water.

 

If you look at the chart, though, Heliodor as a polesone is definitely not a "deep red". Even Topaz (order 9) is a slightly-reddish yellow, if that. 

 

A Bonding surge explains this behaviour (which I predicted, yay!), AND the STARFALLS vision regarding the 'ability to communicate over distance', and the ability to heal with a gem (which doesn't appear to be a fabrial)...although Shardlet won't like that last. 

 

Edit: the KR in the Starfalls vision also glowed a calm white.

 

I will serve up my arm as a delicacy to my dog if that wasn't a fabrial in the Starfalls vision.

 

I'd think that the "calm white" glowing is likely just the KR infusing themselves, versus the colored-light being from their armor.

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