FeatherWriter Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 I think Jasnah's speaking in general. "The powers are called Surgebinding by everyone." She's telling what the proper name is. It's a general we, I'd say, meaning "we who have studied this" or "we as human beings." As Quantum said, if certainly is possible to turn down a duel. Otherwise, if you couldn't refuse, you'd have anyone who thought they could cut it going around and challenging Shardbearers for their Shards and the Shardbearer would be forced to accept and fight every single one. Talk about a nervewracking way to carry Plate and Blade. You'd have to win every single match in order to keep them. It'd never work. I could certainly see someone challenging Renarin, like you said -- trying to hit at the weak link -- but Dalinar and Adolin would never allow it to go through. I'd say the more interesting point would be that Adolin would be outraged that someone would go after Renarin like that, and would go into major protective mode. We've seen it in WoK but people picking on Renarin is one of Adolin's major berserk buttons and one of the quickest ways to start a fight with Adolin. Talking bad about Dalinar will get him angry, but mess with Renarin and you can expect a response from Adolin in about 10 heartbeats. (Unless Renarin's also there to keep Adolin in check and stop him from doing stupid things like going after people with his Shardblade. UGH KHOLIN BROTHERS, STOP BEING SO WONDERFUL.) This scenario could have lots of interesting implications. I mean, Renarin is already dreadfully insecure about his status as the weaker brother and seeing Dalinar and Adolin rush to protect him because he wouldn't be able to hold his own in a duel could certainly be upsetting to him. Especially since he seems to put so much stock in the Shardplate. He has this idea that if he gets Shardplate, his blood weakness won't matter and he'll be able to hold his own... but when push comes to shove, he's still not the warrior his brother is and his family still thinks he's someone who needs to be sheltered and shielded. (It's for this reason that I'm almost positive that Renarin's Shardplate will not solve his problems. It'd be a cop out, and there's character development he needs to go through. As long as he's got the hope of Shardplate, he's not going to get past this. The solution? The Shardplate isn't actually an answer to his problems; that, he'll have to find for himself.) And, I would say that people probably very rarely get hurt in the duels seriously. They mention that Shard duels that go for more than one plate are more dangerous, but certainly striking at your opponent's weak point would be a seriously major crime. Not that I don't think the other Highprinces are above taking cheap shots in the middle of a duel... but I've got a feeling that's somehting even they couldn't get away with. Not to mention: Adolin's Blade entering your face 10 heartbeats after it happens. Quickly followed by Kaladin's spear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarion Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) If Renarin is able to back down from a duel, then what would stop any Highprince from refusing Adolin? Kind of a major plot hole if BS plans to seriously use this idea. Pride? The Alethi value martial skill. A warrior backing down from a fight is going to be embarrassing. In fact, given that combat is a masculine art, I don't think I'd be misleading if I described it as emasculating. Renarin can take that. He's never been a warrior. He's been taking that his whole life (Although hopefully, we'll see him develop into something he can be proud of). A highprince though? Edited January 25, 2014 by Tarion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musica Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 Pride? The Alethi value martial skill. A warrior backing down from a fight is going to be embarrassing. In fact, given that combat is a masculine art, I don't think I'd be misleading if I described it as emasculating. Renarin can take that. He's never been a warrior. He's been taking that his whole life (Although hopefully, we'll see him develop into something he can be proud of). A highprince though? More than that- the Alethi like to pretend to be 'honorable', and there is no honor in challenging someone who is widely known to be of weak body and relatively untrained- even the opposite. So I don't really think it would be an option. Besides, if anyone challenges Renarin instead of Adolin, they might come off as too scared or weak to do so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_karma_II Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Sadeas's wife has a network of spies. Jasnah has some strong suspicions about Elokhar's wife so much so that she appoints an assassin to have Elokhar's wife under constant surveillance. Can it be that Elokhar's wife is one of the spies working for Sadeas's wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiManiak Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Regarding Renarin being challenged to a duel: Another possible deterrent could be that the challenged (Renarin) could select a champion (a role which Adolin would be glad to fill against anyone who dares to challenge his brother, I'm sure) to fight for them. Given that possibility, all challenging Renarin would do is work in favor of Dalinar's plan. Plus, you'd get a pissed off and (likely more highly motivated) Adolin dueling you, as opposed to the normal cocky Adolin that you'd have to fight. Edited January 27, 2014 by KiManiak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I was thinking that challenging a person for Shards was if not common, not incredibly rare. A Shard bearer after all is nearly invincible to anyone not bearing a Shard as well. So a challenge for it is not going to very common unless the challenger already possess these. In which case they probably don't need more Shards. I'm going to comb WoK for references to dueling for Shards when I have time and see what the wording is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccstat Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Dalinar mentions that those with the king's favor can pay a large fee to borrow the king's Plate and Blade in order to duel a shardbearer, though in the context that was for general duels of honor or sport; I suspect the king would be less likely to favor duelists seeking shards as prizes. When Rock told bridge 4 that his nuatoma had come to duel for shards, they all seemed surprised that he would attempt it. (It is not specifically stated whether the nuatoma was loaned a set of plate for the duel, but from the context I doubt it.) Rock says it is a fairly regular occurrence for a group of Horneaters to come down and try for shards, but it seems like within Alethkar most attempts to win a set of shards take place on the battlefield rather than in the dueling ring. That's not to say that it doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 The closest reference I can find is this: Few duels were for Shards; in this case, losing wouldn’t cost either man anything other than statistics in the rankings.--Ch. 58 By tradition, the king’s own Shardplate and Blade were available for a large fee to those who both had his favor and the wish to duel a Shardbearer.--Ch. 58 It seems that duels for Shards are also sometimes fights to the death, though I'm pretty sure that they do not always have to be so. Rock's nuatoma's duel was a fight to the death for Sadeas's Shards. “The nuatoma, they see our lack of Shards as great shame. They want these weapons very badly. It is believed that the nuatoma who first obtains a Shardblade would become king, a thing we have not had for many years. No peak would fight another peak where a man held one of the blessed Blades.”“So you came to buy one?” Kaladin asked. No Shardbearer would sell his weapon. Each was a distinctive relic, taken from one of the Lost Radiants after their betrayal.Rock laughed. “Ha! Buy? No, we are not so foolish as this. But my nuatoma, he knew of your tradition, eh? It says that if a man kills a Shardbearer, he may take the Blade and Plate as his own. And so my nuatoma and his house, we made a grand procession, coming down to find and kill one of your Shardbearers.”Kaladin almost laughed. “I assume it proved more difficult than that.”“My nuatoma was not a fool,” Rock said, defensive. “He knew this thing would be difficult, but your tradition, it gives us hope, you see? Occasionally, a brave nuatoma will come down to duel a Shardbearer. Someday, one will win, and we will have Shards.”“Perhaps,” Kaladin said, tossing an empty reed into the chasm. “Assuming they agree to duel you in a bout to the death.”“Oh, they always duel,” Rock said, laughing. “The nuatoma brings many riches and promises all of his possessions to the victor. Your lighteyes, they cannot pass by a pond so warm! To kill an Unkalaki with no Shardblade, they do not see this thing as difficult. Many nuatoma have died. But is all right. Eventually, we will win.”“And have one set of Shards,” Kaladin said. “Alethkar has dozens.”“One is a beginning,” Rock said, shrugging. “But my nuatoma lost, so I am bridgeman.”“Wait,” Teft said. “You came all of this way with your brightlord, and once he lost, you up and joined a bridge crew?”“No, no, you do not see,” Rock said. “My nuatoma, he challenged Highprince Sadeas. Is well known that there are many Shardbearers here on Shattered Plains. My nuatoma thought it easier to fight man with only Plate first, then win Blade next.” --Ch. 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Dalinar mentions that those with the king's favor can pay a large fee to borrow the king's Plate and Blade in order to duel a shardbearer, though in the context that was for general duels of honor or sport; I suspect the king would be less likely to favor duelists seeking shards as prizes. When Rock told bridge 4 that his nuatoma had come to duel for shards, they all seemed surprised that he would attempt it. (It is not specifically stated whether the nuatoma was loaned a set of plate for the duel, but from the context I doubt it.) Rock says it is a fairly regular occurrence for a group of Horneaters to come down and try for shards, but it seems like within Alethkar most attempts to win a set of shards take place on the battlefield rather than in the dueling ring. That's not to say that it doesn't happen. If you borrow the King's Shards in a duel for Shards, you would not be able to pay off if you lost (as I don't think you can give away the King's Shards you are just borrowing) if you didn't have other Shards. If you do have other Shards, why would you pay to use the King's? Nobody would duel with the chance of losing Shards unless they could also win them, as I see it. Presumably Sadeas was willing to duel Rock's nuatoma because he didn't think he could lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts