Daishi5 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I don't think Dalinar plans on getting all the shards. Once Adolin wins one or two shards, people are going to be much less willing to duel him. I wonder if Dalinar and the King will do the same thing Gavilar did, give a set of shards to the King's primary bodyguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I don't think Dalinar plans on getting all the shards. Once Adolin wins one or two shards, people are going to be much less willing to duel him. I wonder if Dalinar and the King will do the same thing Gavilar did, give a set of shards to the King's primary bodyguard That wouldn't go well, Kaladin for sure would reject this "gift". And others brigdemen for sure would desire this to much to make dumb things. But I think that they would think twice before give a darkeye such power, that would be very scandalous (but possible give the ex-slave to captain of the royal guard example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isomere Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Just swap who is using the plate, still belongs to the king but his bodyguards all take turns. That's what I'd do at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadewolf Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) 9 highprinces, 30 sets of Shards. Losing one set is significant. Presumably you start with the princes you have no chance of winning to your side, so your potential allies wonder if they'll be next. If you get over 5, the diplomatic effort may be a failure. Which highprince is least likely to be won over? Hint: 6 letters, starts and ends w/"S". What cause would justify an honor duel w/Shards as stakes? Would accusing someone of stealing their Shards by murdering and enslaving the rightful owners be good enough? Wild speculation, easily falsified. I'm sure Brandon has come up w/better. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Shards ended up w/the Kholin camp or redistributed to their allied factions. Yeah that tactic would only work if you can insure that you'll win. Right now Sadeas has way to much military might, as well as political support. A better target would be somebody that is opposing you, but in middling in might. It's who to target after, that's interesting. A message that you mean business needs to be sent, but that might drive alot of people to stick to the side, and only jump in when there's a clear winner. This may be useful because it gets some of the pressure off your back, but at the same time if too many highprinces go into this group, you may not find enough support. Instigating something with one of those neutral parties might be necessary to proceed forward, but that could seriously risk all of highprinces banding together to take you down. I don't think Dalinar plans on getting all the shards. Once Adolin wins one or two shards, people are going to be much less willing to duel him. I wonder if Dalinar and the King will do the same thing Gavilar did, give a set of shards to the King's primary bodyguard What I wonder is what even happened to Galivar's set of shard? Edited January 16, 2014 by shadewolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 What I wonder is what even happened to Galivar's set of shard? I am 99.9% positive that it went to Elhokar and it's the one that he still uses today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadewolf Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) I am 99.9% positive that it went to Elhokar and it's the one that he still uses today. from what I recall from the prologue in WoK, Galivar had blue armor, and Elhokar is mentioned to have gold armor. I also recall Dalinar mentioning that he won two sets of armor in the shattered plains, one of which Elhokar is now using, the other being presented by Elhokar to someone that was worthy. Edited January 16, 2014 by shadewolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 The color is largely irrelevant since plate is painted and customized to suit the tastes of the bearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 That wouldn't go well, Kaladin for sure would reject this "gift". And others brigdemen for sure would desire this to much to make dumb things. But I think that they would think twice before give a darkeye such power, that would be very scandalous (but possible give the ex-slave to captain of the royal guard example). Kaladin knows that Rock wants a set of Shardplate and Blade really badly. Rock mentioned he would basically be king of the Horneaters if he were to receive them. I think that's what Kaladin would do with them if he received a pair, and for that reason I hope he never does, because I think we would lose Rock to the mountains for a couple books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Any shards that Adolin wins will probably go to Dalinar's family first (Renarin gains a sword, Dalinar may regain shards if desired), then officers and people Dalinar trusts. I don't think the bridgemen would initially be high on that list. Once Kaladin shows off his glowy to Dalinar that may change, but I agree that he'd refuse to take them. I think Kaladin will create his own shards by the end of this book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 from what I recall from the prologue in WoK, Galivar had blue armor, and Elhokar is mentioned to have gold armor. I also recall Dalinar mentioning that he won two sets of armor in the shattered plains, one of which Elhokar is now using, the other being presented by Elhokar to someone that was worthy. Elhokar's Plate and Blade are Gavilar's, I'm almost positive. While you are correct in that Gavilar's plate was painted blue, but Elhokar's is gold, I'm fairly certain that Elhokar has simply had it painted since receiving it. This quote seems to imply that "the king's Blade and Plate" are a set that belongs to the monarch, whoever he is. ...the lending of the king’s Blade and Plate—or before the kingship had been restored, the lending of a highprince’s Blade and Plate—was a strong tradition. Even Gavilar had not broken it, though he had complained about it in private. (TWoK Ch. 58) The quote that probably made you think of Dalinar winning them is this one I would guess (bold mine), but it doesn't say anything about Elhokar keeping a set, presumably because he already owned the royal Shards.: Dalinar had won a Parshendi Shardblade and Plate during his first year here. He’d given both to Elhokar to award to a warrior he felt would be the most useful to Alethkar and the war effort. (Ch. 18) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 The aswer is simple ink. The natural color is gray slate, any other color likely are comestic modification like Sadeas or even Adolin. In true it was said that only Dalinar didn't painted his plate so Elhokar could have ordered a painted job in his father old armor =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 30 shardbearers = 60 shards(blades and plates)? Or the count consider only a single piece( blade or plate) ? I got the impression that Dalinar are talking about "full sets" and in the army some must have only a single part that didn't entered in the count. Dalinar wouldn't talk about full sets because... well, because it's unclear. If one Highprince has 3 Plates and 1 Blade, Dalinar would say the Highprince has 4 Shards, not 2 sets, or 1 set and 2 spare Plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiManiak Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Believe it or not, this quote is on page 2, and I just read through all 12 pages to make sure no one else had already pointed this out... I don't think the act of drawing the pattern will have an ill effect on her spren. In fact, I think it would have had an ill effect had she NOT drawn it! Shallan has told us that when she takes a memory, it stays perfectly in her mind until she draws it, at which point it is released. I think her taking a memory did indeed "freeze" the spren, in the same way the ardent's measurements did, since it appears her memories are perfect representations (this is how she could know that her drawing wasn't quite right). By drawing the pattern, albeit imperfectly, she released the memory, and thus released her spren from its frozen state, hence the "sigh of relief" at the moment the drawing was finished. Paperclip – I believe it, and commend your diligence in reviewing the next ~ 200 comments to verify no one else had really pointed out what you did. I’ll give you an Upvote for that! (Although, to be fair, a number of folks did have a similar thought as mine about how the drawing of the spren may have led to the spren being in its low-developmental state, so I can’t take all of the credit. AG Rooster did put something along those lines down in this thread first.) Still, good point. I should have clarified. I believe the recording of the spren itself is what locked the spren into that shape and infantile/juvenile stage of development. The Memory she takes leads directly to her drawing the spren (Shallan usually takes Memories when she plans to draw something) and defining it. The new definition can still probably develop on its own into a fully mature Cryptic given time and experiences. But I think Shallan’s actions were comparable to hitting the “reset button” on the Cryptic’s cognitive development. Where you and I apparently differ (and it could just be semantics) is that you state the spren was released from its frozen state after she draws it (although you acknowledge it was drawn imperfectly). Her drawing it therefore was a relatively good thing? (Is I think what you’re saying; correct me if I’m wrong) Whereas I think the activity itself of recording it imperfectly is what led to the reset of the spren to an early development stage. I question whether she needed to record it at all (or at least at that point in time). I’m also skeptical whether the sigh the spren issued was really one of relief, just because Shallan (as an unreliable narrator) tells us that what she thinks. (Being a big Brandon fan has taught me to question any assumption or conclusion that one of his characters has "come to" and is therefore trying to have the reader believe! ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 As a general question to everyone who thinks Shallan stunted her spren's growth: What's special about her spren compared to Syl, compared to Wyndle, compared to Ym's spren? They were all slow and stupid at the start. Why does there have to be a special explanation for Shallan's spren being stupid because she measured it? It seemed to me that the spren kept trying to poke through the Cognitive Realm to the Physical, and failed until Shallan provided a gateway for it. Hence the sigh of relief. I don't think it's very easy for a spren to make it to the Physical. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 As a general question to everyone who thinks Shallan stunted her spren's growth: What's special about her spren compared to Syl, compared to Wyndle, compared to Ym's spren? They were all slow and stupid at the start. Why does there have to be a special explanation for Shallan's spren being stupid because she measured it? It seemed to me that the spren kept trying to poke through the Cognitive Realm to the Physical, and failed until Shallan provided a gateway for it. Hence the sigh of relief. I don't think it's very easy for a spren to make it to the Physical. I thought Wyndle was not stupid because he was sent, whereas the others were more random. Maybe I just decided I liked a theory I heard along the way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I thought Wyndle was not stupid because he was sent, whereas the others were more random. Maybe I just decided I liked a theory I heard along the way... The Lift interlude shows that he was, in fact, stupid: She wasn’t sure how she did it. She just did. It had started right around when Wyndle had first appeared. He hadn’t talked then. She kind of missed those days. At least, unable to talk. Which is similar to Shallan's spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Yeah, the entire scene after the spren is brought into the physical is what, 20 minutes or so? Give the poor guy a chance to get his feet under him before we say that he is stunted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 The Lift interlude shows that he was, in fact, stupid: At least, unable to talk. Which is similar to Shallan's spren. Thanks, now I can get my head right. Yeah, the entire scene after the spren is brought into the physical is what, 20 minutes or so? Give the poor guy a chance to get his feet under him before we say that he is stunted. We have to get while the gettin's good. He's only going to be stupid for a little while, so we need to call him a puppyspren while we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Thanks, now I can get my head right. We have to get while the gettin's good. He's only going to be stupid for a little while, so we need to call him a puppyspren while we can. Or a kittenspren. Or a kuppyspren. Or a pittenspren. Or an adorablespren. Sillyspren? You know what you call an impaired Cryptic? Simple. What do Cryptics call an impaired cryptic? Honorspren. What do honorspren call an impaired Cryptic? A Cryptic. Yes, I'm making racist spren jokes. That's a thing now. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Or a kittenspren. Or a kuppyspren. Or a pittenspren. Or an adorablespren. Sillyspren? You know what you call an impaired Cryptic? Simple. What do Cryptics call an impaired cryptic? Honorspren. What do honorspren call an impaired Cryptic? A Cryptic. Yes, I'm making racist spren jokes. That's a thing now. They are called Crypples. Odium take my soul. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 They are called Crypples. Odium take my soul. As his representative on Earth, I'd like to thank you for your kind donation and offer special deals on Impenetrable Bloodlust™, "A draught to drown your troubles. . in their own blood!" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beautor Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 They are called Crypples. Odium take my soul. Oh my... An up vote in hopes for the salvation of your soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha'man Logain Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I love these jokes. It reminds of the long lost days of the mostly text internet when news groups came up with all the WoT jokes. How many ____ Ajah does it take to screw in a lightbulb jokes were my particular favorite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Or a kittenspren. Or a kuppyspren. Or a pittenspren. Or an adorablespren. Sillyspren? They are puppyspren. Shallan said so. The pattern moved, sliding across the page like an axehound pup under a bedsheet. There you go. It's a pup spren and we shall name him George and he will be Shallan's best friend forever. Edited January 16, 2014 by eveorjoy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 They are puppyspren. Shallan said so. There you go. It's a pup spren and we shall name him George and he will be Shallan's best friend forever. Aww. Its a cute alien bug-crab-dog puppy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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