The Bands of Mourning chapter three discussion

[Kurkistan]

So you believe that Storing memories cause some sort of damage? As it is different to, say, strength in that Storing strength doesn't create a permanent reduction in the amount of strength available. 

 

If this is the case could you use Gold healing to bring the memories back? Or any kind of Investiture based healing?

 

I'm not sure about "damage", but any memories stored in a coppermind definitely aren't in your head anymore, from what the books show us.

[Argent]

I, for one, didn't know storing mental speed caused hunger. I assume Sanderson has a reason for it, though.

 

Your brain accounts for about 20% of your entire body's energy consumption (during rest), so I could see how doubling or tripling could make you hungry. 

[Moogle]

I, for one, didn't know storing mental speed caused hunger. I assume Sanderson has a reason for it, though.

 

It's tapping, rather than storing, that makes you hungry.

 

Seems like it's intended to show that tapping mental speed makes your brain work faster and thus need more sugar.

[Jaller]

I, for one, didn't know storing mental speed caused hunger. I assume Sanderson has a reason for it, though.

Maybe he's going for a more literal take on 'food for thought'?

I'm pleased to see that this book is going to give more focus to the Set storyline, which I missed from Shadows of Self even though the book certainly had enough going for it. All the background information about the mechanics of the cosmere is an excellent bonus.

[Zathoth]

Wax is definitely getting manipulated, I dont think the kandra are 'evil' as much as they just really need his help.

 

We have in world theories how storing identity works, I guess a lot of you thought of this, I still find it interesting.

 

I wonder if Wax's sister is Metalborn. She is definitely playing a role in this, more than the sister is distress I mean. I still like the connection ferring theory.

 

I bet we will see a lot of feruchemy in this book, maybe even all the ferrings of the spiritual quadrant. (I just really want a chromium ferring <.<)

[DSC01]

I must say, I am feeling quite smug about apparently being right about storing all of your Identity away making you able to use any metalmind. This smugness is tempered quite a bit by the fact that I figured that out pretty easily, but never once did it occur to me that one could store other attributes while in an Indentity-less state to create universal metalminds. 

[natc]

Why would the language be completely unknown to the Kandra just because it was from the south? It seems more likely it might be from a time before the LR. Perhaps he could read it but then made sure the knowledge wasn't propagated...

Certainly felt like I was reading from many of the discussions in this forum as we walked through the Kandra PowerPoint presentation of how this all would work.

edited to fix some spelling and make a complete sentences.

Because certainly, the only characters I believe we know of to have made contact with the south or realized it existed are Rashek, Harmony, and . . . Marsh?

So even if it's just that the kandra wouldn't be able to read it. I mean, it would also automatically include the fact that the civilization must have pre-Empire ancestry and must derive their language from somewhere so just from being from the South makes your theory automatically relevant.

Edited December 22, 2015 by natc

[baby]

So VenDell says people have been experimenting with the idea, and the results have been..... promising? I can't fathom how the results could be anything but right or wrong.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Onceler

[Copperkeep]

I'm far too excited about the prospects for what universal metalminds could do to a world's economy. (I'm a little uncertain, though- would you still have to be a feruchemist of the appropriate metal to be able to tap it, or at least a feruchemist to begin with? It seems like that would be significantly less valuable in practice, but still very cool.)

 

And Lord Ruler, I want to know how the Metallic Arts can be worked into technological creations. Before now, I was certain Hemalurgy was the key, and I still think it might be involved. I also wonder if Hemalurgy will ever somehow become more widespread- for some reason, I can't shake the impression of underground hemalurgic parlours like weird mixes of tattoo/piercing parlors and drug dens in the contemporary era. Maybe if the trick of using hemalurgy non-lethally becomes widespread, so selling pieces of yourself becomes a possibility for the supremely desperate?

 

Back on track, I'm imagining guilds of feruchemists who share metalminds for specific purposes, with some members being paid or rewarded for storing in minds and letting others use them, others paying to use them, or maybe employers of feruchemists paying additional fees to a Feruchemical union to pay for different amounts of stored attributes they want a ferring employee to use- say, paying more to have a steelrunner ferring use more speed (perhaps "refueling" at steelrunner stations run by this guild/union) to carry goods the same distance in less time.

 

It could make for a fascinating infrastructure and economy, and I can't help but think of a union like that as a very "Terris" thing to build, for reasons that are hard for me to pin down. It does raise a lot of questions, of course- we still need full feruchemists, hemalurgy, or fuzzy nicrosil tricks for it to work.

 

Then, of course, this all hinges on the Aluminum theory being correct.

 

When the Aluminum hint showed up in MAG, I honestly didn't expect it to come up in the books this soon.

[natc]

Well without someone with multiple feruchemical abilities they can't test the full extents of this.

[Stormgate]

Thus the Set. Of course, selling a piece of your soul is not unheard of in the Cosmere. (See Nalthis and Breaths)

[11thorderknight]

I wonder how much of the kandra's speculation in this chapter is actually going to turn out to be accurate? Because if a feruchemist who stores Identity can make a universally accessible metalmind - not one that's accessible to other feruchemists, but one that's accessible to anyone - the implication is that a de-Identified metalmind can be used to take attributes from others as well as to give them. And that opens up a huge can of worms.....

[Copperkeep]

We know that aluminum "does something strange" in every magic system, correct?

It might have been enough that its power seems truly moot in allomancy and that it blocks the metallic arts in odd ways, from protecting a person or item from pushes and pulls of various kinds to stopping the boosted healing of pewterarms and bloodmakers. (Come to think of it, I don't suppose an aluminum lined cap would do anything equivalent to a coppercloud?)

But now we know that what aluminum does in Feruchemy is just as odd- the attribute it stores is one key to how Feruchemy works to begin with, resulting in hax.

So what's screwy about hemalurgical aluminum? I was under the impression that all it does is steal one of the allomantic enhancement metals, which doesn't seem especially strange to me. Is there something else about it? Does having an aluminum spike have any weird side effects? (Weirder than hemalurgy in general, I mean.)

It feels a little strange to me that you can have a spike or a metalmind made up of a material that seems to actively interfere with the metallic arts in any way it can manage...

Do we have any word on why Aluminum is so strange in the Cosmere? Are there any wild theories about it?

[Landis963]

Do we have any word on why Aluminum is so strange in the Cosmere? Are there any wild theories about it?

 

We don't have any word on why it's odd, and I'm certain I could dig up some wild theories if it weren't so late in my timezone, but aluminum tends to be a localized barrier between Realms - preventing Investiture from coming through to the Physical and applying the necessary effect.  Hence, burned Aluminum wipes out your metal reserves, aluminum foil blocks out Rioting and Soothing, Aluminum weapons don't cast atium shadows and can't be affected by Pulls or Pushes.  Jumping over to Sel, I believe it's been stated that "ralkalest" (a weak metal that can't be altered by soulstamps) is aluminum, which makes it dovetail nicely with these other denials of Investiture.  (By that logic, aluminum would be immune to the relevant Surgebindings as well, hrm.)  

[Argent]

The one thing we know for a fact is that aluminum is magically inert. So Allomancy won't affect it (you can't Push/Pull on it, you can't send your Soothing/Rioting through it, you probably can't Seek through an aluminum barrier, etc), Breath won't stick to it, Soulstamps won't affect it, and (probably) neither will Aons. I imagine you can't Lash it, or otherwise affect it with Surges. I don't remember whether Shardblades can cut it, but if they can, I expect it is because the metal itself is not terribly durable, and Shardblades have enough Physical aspect to act like normal metal weapons in this regard. And so on.

[natc]

Though strangely all aluminum on Roshar is soulcasted, so it can be created from surges. Whether you can cast it into something else is unknown though.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

Why would the language be completely unknown to the Kandra just because it was from the south? It seems more likely it might be from a time before the LR. Perhaps he could read it but then made sure the knowledge wasn't propagated...

 

The Southern Scadrians are not just from the "south", but from a wholly different continent that is south from what I remember. I suppose they could be large combined landmasses and still be separate continents like Europe/Asia, but for some reason I always assumed the southern continent was a wholly separate landmass (ala Australia) or mostly so like North/South America. 

 

We have vastly different languages even a few hundred miles apart in development. Why wouldn't the southern continent have developed a totally different script? Kandra were used by TLR in the northern continent... as the Southern Continent was his backup population. Though as his personal Kandra, maybe Paalm did spend some time down in the southern continent and that is where she learned of Trell and the foreign god/metal?

[StormingTexan]

I always pictured it as Australia as well. Speaking of that how exactly did Marsh travel there? I guess it makes more sense it is more like North/South America with some kind of land connection. That seems weird to me though since you would think at least the southern people would traverse this at some point. 

[Stormgate]

He has Hemalurgic Feruchemy. Store Breath, Compound it, and you can swim forever. Tap warmth to dry off. Compound Bendalloy to negate the need for food. Or maybe compound Steel and just run on water. Ironminds make that easier as well.

[KidWayne]

"The Lance of the Fountains" sounds nice - the spear Kelsier used to try to kill The Lord Ruler, I presume? I think there were fountains there.

 

Are we looking at an ancient Terris mural depicting Rashek after his murder of Alendi?

#1 → The lance is indeed the one you presume. It's significance is that it is also the spear that killed Kelsier. It is venerated like the cross of Christ, you know, since the spear is the symbol of the Church of the Survior and whatnot.

#2 → Theory time!

I think that Wax's sister is being held off-world. The script in a language that no one knows is kind of the giveaway in my opinion. The location of the suspected shardpool in Shadows of Self was given as "the Southern Roughs." Does anyone know where New Seran is located? I noticed on the map of Elendel Basin that the "Southern Roughs" are just south of the Seran mountain Range.

[Moogle]

He has Hemalurgic Feruchemy. Store Breath, Compound it, and you can swim forever. Tap warmth to dry off. Compound Bendalloy to negate the need for food. Or maybe compound Steel and just run on water. Ironminds make that easier as well.

 

There's no way Marsh has a Feruchemical bendalloy or Feruchemical cadmium spike in my opinion. Ruin would have had to kill Feruchemists to make said spikes, which is a waste when they needed those for all the other good Feruchemical spikes.

 

I wonder if Marsh has an Feruchemical bronze spike to store wakefulness? Compounding wakefulness would certainly be something Ruin would want for his inquisitors, but it's definitely not as good as Feruchemical gold/Feruchemical steel. Not that Inquisitors could Compound... but Ruin clearly intended for them to become able to with that Feruchemical atium spike.

 

I believe, and call me crazy, but I believe Allomantic pewter removes the need for food as it is. Vin doesn't get hungry on her pewter drag, does she?

Edited December 22, 2015 by Moogle

[KidWayne]

I also wonder if Hemalurgy will ever somehow become more widespread- for some reason, I can't shake the impression of underground hemalurgic parlours like weird mixes of tattoo/piercing parlors and drug dens in the contemporary era. Maybe if the trick of using hemalurgy non-lethally becomes widespread, so selling pieces of yourself becomes a possibility for the supremely desperate?

I love the idea of hemalurgical piercing dens. It's like dark alley organ "donation." It's the proverbial "sell a kidney" tactic. It's also one that Sanderson has already hinted at with drabs in Warbreaker.

I can just see the kind of places you would find a place like this; although I'd imagine that soothing parlors might naturally expand their business models to include this kind of thing.

To borrow a culturally insensitive but hilarious bit of comedy... "so I look out the window and notice the places we are passing as we drive by... gun store, liquor store, piercing den, soothing parlor, liquor store... wait! What kind of place are you taking me to?!" Ha ha ha!

[natc]

Marsh could probably actually run on water or something honestly. Or duralumin-jump with a lot of steel gulped down to see how far he gets then swim the rest. Risky without eyes though.

[King's Twit]

I thought there was a WoB, or maybe one of the epigraphs, which said that the two continents were connected, but the close proximity to the sun after Rashek moved it made it so that only the poles were habitable.

 

Harmony could have made them two seperate continents after that, I suppose.

 

I based this belief on these two WoB

 

PRICKLYBEAR

When Scadrial was closer to the sun, can we safely assume that the middle section of the planet was scorched clean of anything living? Could there have been some underground life thing going on? Anything cool or interesting sitting out there (like ruins or some lost technology)?

BRANDON SANDERSON

 

The middle section was scorched pretty clean. I know of a few interesting tidbits, but it's not technology. (The tech level before the Lord Ruler took over was nothing particularly special, early industrial era.) The cool and interesting things are on the southern continent.

 

PRICKLYBEAR

What's the closest that humans had gotten to the 'inhabitable' zone of the planet during the events of the first Mistborn trilogy?

BRANDON SANDERSON

There were groups who would go out there to escape the Lord Ruler, and the Final Empire in general. Survival was practically impossible. It's possible someone might have gotten across to the southern continent, but it would take a small miracle.

 

There's nothing in them which confirms that the two continents are connected, though, and I suppose someone would probably have made the journey by AoL if they were connected (or still connected).

Edited December 22, 2015 by King's Twit

[StormingTexan]

Man now I want to know how far apart they are from each other. As isolated as they seem from each other I am picturing a distance similar to a transatlantic crossing. Thats a long way to steel push across. Of course I may be way off and its like Australia to New Zealand. I just cant see them being connected and no one crossing regularly at this point.