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The Bands of Mourning chapter three discussion


ccstat

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Chapter 3 is up.

I for one am a bit put out at the manipulation that's happening here. The order in which the information is presented to our heroes is clearly calculated. The only reason not to lead with that final reveal is if you are treating them like marks rather than collaborators. It could be that the kandra are just in the habit of manipulating people this way, but it puts me on my guard for sure. What else are they hiding?

Edited by ccstat
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Yeah, I seriously don't trust VenDell guy. Not that he's gone dark side but he might be a tad too creative about what he thinks Harmony wants him to do. I'm wondering if we're supposed to infer something about his character from the bit about the hands and skull. He seems a bit... materialistic for a Kandra.

 

And I think we have some people here who were right about how Identity and Investiture might work. I'm not one hundred percent clear on but the ramifications are huge. Not to mention the questions: can someone wearing the bands or band-like bracers make more? Will descendents of a Band-based Mistborn inherit potential for allomancy? Is this the root of allomantic technology?

 

I think reading one chapter at a time does good things for my ability to consider details but it's too excruciating to try when I actually have the book. I'm also starting to wish that Sanderson had managed to write book three by accident as well.

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Still trying to  process the chapter but agree VenDell and I think we have to throw MeLaan in there too as they seem to be partners in crime are being rather manipulative. Of course lets be honest they are agents of Harmony and we saw how manipulative he can be. 

 

Another Cosmere reference this time from MeLann and it seemed to refference the Cosmere as we see it unlike the first. So Harmony is apparently keeping the Kandra Cosmere savvy as well. 

 

This all seems to point to the Set's goal of creating a full Mistborn and/or full Feruchemist. Interesting stuff. Cant wait to see the giant cliffhanger at the end of BoM. 

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I'm not sure I understand what VenDell was saying about using Identity and Investiture to give anyone powers.

Is it that storing Investiture stores, or at least can store, your ability to use Allomancy or Feruchemy itself?

The way I understood, it would be like storing part of your spiritweb. Since Rashek was so ridiculously powerful, he could have stored a third of his feruchemical and allomantic power and some of his memories if a sucessor was needed.

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We've never seen any Feruchemy besides Feruchemical copper where storing makes you permanently lose anything, so it could well be that the system is so broken that the Feruchemist doesn't lose anything in the long term by storing into Feruchemical nicrosil.

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We've never seen any Feruchemy besides Feruchemical copper where storing makes you permanently lose anything, so it could well be that the system is so broken that the Feruchemist doesn't lose anything in the long term by storing into Feruchemical nicrosil.

If you can store the capacity to use allomancy, but need to be an allomancer first, then I think nicrosil should work more like cooper and store specific fragments of your spritweb related to investiture manipulation.

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We've never seen any Feruchemy besides Feruchemical copper where storing makes you permanently lose anything, so it could well be that the system is so broken that the Feruchemist doesn't lose anything in the long term by storing into Feruchemical nicrosil.

 

 

What do you mean "permanently"? Are you referring to the fact that you don't get memories back when you stop storing them, in the same way as, say, strength or speed? Because I think Bendalloy energy works in the same way. You store Calories, and you don't get them back until you tap them. Or at least that's how I interpreted it.

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The way I understood, it would be like storing part of your spiritweb. Since Rashek was so ridiculously powerful, he could have stored a third of his feruchemical and allomantic power and some of his memories if a sucessor was needed.

If he was storing something for his successor, why wasn't it mentioned on the metal plates? I'm incined to think we've moved beyond his contingency planning. I also think the connection to the Lord Ruler is a red herring from the reader's point of view. We're familiar enough with the Lord Ruler's post-Well plans that there isn't room fo rmagic bracers.

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What do you mean "permanently"? Are you referring to the fact that you don't get memories back when you stop storing them, in the same way as, say, strength or speed? Because I think Bendalloy energy works in the same way. You store Calories, and you don't get them back until you tap them. Or at least that's how I interpreted it.

 

Ah, you're quite right. Thank you; silly of me.

 

Now that you mention it, fBendally, Feruchemical cadmium, and Feruchemical brass work in that same way, without everything necessarily getting set back to "default" when they stop storing. One interesting thing to note about those 3, though, is that they all involve taking in something from the environment and squirreling it away, as opposed to Feruchemical copper's storage of memories. Although I suppose under certain models memories could be said to be taken in from the environment, in a sense...

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The kandra trying to tease the secret of movies out of Harmony reminds me greatly of how many of us pry Brandon for information...

 

The Last Obligator... Yomen? 

 

"The Lance of the Fountains" sounds nice - the spear Kelsier used to try to kill The Lord Ruler, I presume? I think there were fountains there.

 

 

“There are four individuals,” VenDell said, “who, to our knowledge, have held the power of Ascension. Rashek, the Survivor, the Ascendant Warrior, and Lord Harmony Himself. Harmony’s Ascension granted Him a precise and in-depth knowledge of the Metallic Arts. It stands to reason that the Lord Ruler gained the same information. He understood Identity as a Feruchemical ability, and knew the hidden metals. Indeed, he gave aluminum to his Inquisitors.”

 

I smell misdirection here. We haven't really talked about what Kelsier could and would do with the knowledge granted by the power of the Well, and this is very much a confirmation that he did actually hold the power (kind of) for a period of time.

 

 

“One of our brothers,” MeLaan said, sitting up in her chair, “a kandra named ReLuur, took this image.”

 

I wonder if Reluur's name is intended to sound a little like an anagram of Ruler.

 

 

VenDell showed another image, of a different mural. It depicted a man standing atop a peak, hands raised above him and a glowing spear hovering there, just beyond his touch. A corpse slumped at his feet. Wax went forward, walking into the stream of light until he was standing right in front of the image, looking up at the portion he wasn’t blocking. The face of the man in the mosaic had eyes upturned and lips parted as if in awe at what he held.

 

Are we looking at an ancient Terris mural depicting Rashek after his murder of Alendi? 

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Words of Radiance Spoilers:

Glowing spear...
Syl! Get back to Roshar like a good spren!
JK.



So, ReLuur was attacked by the Set? This is cool...

Also, I wonder if Steris is going to become Metalborn.

There is also the problem of heredity. If you get the powers of a Fullborn, how likely are your children to gain similar powers?

Edited by Kurkistan
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So if Nicrosil does indeed store allomantic/feruchemical power, then one could theoretically compound his allomantic strength, yes? If you were an allomancer with double nicrosil through some method (hemalurgy/the unlikely but possible mistborn ferring).

Compounding surges would be redundant but feasible too . . .

The South tease is real.

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If he was storing something for his successor, why wasn't it mentioned on the metal plates? I'm incined to think we've moved beyond his contingency planning. I also think the connection to the Lord Ruler is a red herring from the reader's point of view. We're familiar enough with the Lord Ruler's post-Well plans that there isn't room fo magic bracers.

The metal plates contained very little information, if my memory serves well.

There could be another plan he was organizing before being killed, for after he took the Well for a second time and maybe tried to unruin the planet a little. After all, Rashek wasn't immortal, and probably knew he couldn't use atium to keep himself alive forever.

It does not need to be a contingency plan, only preparation for what could happen in... 3,000 years? More than enough time to procrastinate, that is for sure.

Edited by DreamEternal
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The metal plates contained very little information, if my memory serves well.

There could be another plan he was organizing before being killed, for after he took the Well for a second time and maybe tried to unruin the planet a little. After all, Rashek wasn't immortal, and probably knew he couldn't use atium to keep himself alive forever.

It does not need to be a contingency plan, only preparation for what could happen in... 3,000 years? More than enough time to procrastinate, that is for sure.

Nothing stopping him from adding a line saying "btw, my bracers can give out awesome powers."

 

If he had a couple of thousand years, why take the risk making the bands now? And if they did exist, why not give them to a successor?

 

These bands of mourning legends sound too good to be true. Though I also don't know where the legends come from. Unlike a lot of the other mythology, there doesn't seem to be a source in the first trilogy. The Lord Ruler's bracers barely get a second though, IRRC.

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what in the name of Harmony is the language on the plates written in?

I assume the language of the southerns.

EDIT: Though that would presumably be related to the ancient languages, so maybe not...

Edited by Maths
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Why would the language be completely unknown to the Kandra just because it was from the south? It seems more likely it might be from a time before the LR. Perhaps he could read it but then made sure the knowledge wasn't propagated...

 

Certainly felt like I was reading from many of the discussions in this forum as we walked through the Kandra PowerPoint presentation of how this all would work.

 

edited to fix some spelling and make a complete sentences.

Edited by GoddessIMHO
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Certainly felt like I was reading from many of the discussions in this forum as we walked through the Kandra PowerPoint presentation of how this all would work.

 

Yeah, that aspect of it was somewhat amusing.

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If he was storing something for his successor, why wasn't it mentioned on the metal plates? I'm incined to think we've moved beyond his contingency planning. I also think the connection to the Lord Ruler is a red herring from the reader's point of view. We're familiar enough with the Lord Ruler's post-Well plans that there isn't room fo rmagic bracers.

 

Well, that's one way to look at it... but another is that it seems from the beginning that the Rashek wanted Mistborn, or at least Mistings, in the world. The first way to do that was to hand out some Lerasium, but that was in incredibly short supply. So if he ever had to create more Mistings/Mistborn, he could do so through this method.

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We've never seen any Feruchemy besides Feruchemical copper where storing makes you permanently lose anything, so it could well be that the system is so broken that the Feruchemist doesn't lose anything in the long term by storing into Feruchemical nicrosil.

 

So you believe that Storing memories cause some sort of damage? As it is different to, say, strength in that Storing strength doesn't create a permanent reduction in the amount of strength available. 

 

If this is the case could you use Gold healing to bring the memories back? Or any kind of Investiture based healing?

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