Double feruchemy???

[Shadow3DJ]

What would be the application of having an hemalurgic spike with a ferring power that you already have. For example, I am a steel ferring and I get an hemalurgic spike with steel feruchemy, what would be the use of that? Would I get more power that I gave?

[Yata]

We have not sure answer, if you want I may tell you the Comunity's Ideas abou how "Feruchemical Strenght works:

- You may store more of the attribute (ex. Some feruchemist may store not more than 20% of an attribute and other 35%)

- Your Metalmind may contains more Feruchemical Charge before became full.

- When you tap large amount of Feruchemical Charge, you may do it with more efficiency (you waste less power to compress it).

[Plaeggs]

We have not sure answer, if you want I may tell you the Comunity's Ideas abou how "Feruchemical Strenght works:

- You may store more of the attribute (ex. Some feruchemist may store not more than 20% of an attribute and other 35%)

- Your Metalmind may contains more Feruchemical Charge before became full.

- When you tap large amount of Feruchemical Charge, you may do it with more efficiency (you waste less power to compress it).

The first one is true, the second i'm pretty sure is false, and the third i have no idea.

[Stormgate]

I think that the part about storing more of a charge at once is right, as well as, for example, being able to more efficiently sort through coppermind information.

[Moogle]

The first one is true, the second i'm pretty sure is false, and the third i have no idea.

 

How do you know the first one is true?

[Yata]

The first one is true, the second i'm pretty sure is false, and the third i have no idea.

I have just put together the many ideas of the Sharder. To be honest we have no clues  (pro o contros) about any of them.

[Voidus]

To be honest the first is the one I doubt the most, or at least if it did effect it, it would be pretty meaningless for most practical purposes. Feruchemists can already store all of some traits at least (like weight) so what would extra do then? Let them store more than all their weight?
And storing in most cases is limited more by the fact that it will kill you than anything else. Store too much strength or speed and your heart will stop, store too much heat and you'll freeze. Store too much fortune and an anvil will fall on your head.

[Stormgate]

To be honest the first is the one I doubt the most, or at least if it did effect it, it would be pretty meaningless for most practical purposes. Feruchemists can already store all of some traits at least (like weight) so what would extra do then? Let them store more than all their weight?

And storing in most cases is limited more by the fact that it will kill you than anything else. Store too much strength or speed and your heart will stop, store too much heat and you'll freeze. Store too much fortune and an anvil will fall on your head.

Or store too much fortune and Odium escapes from Braize.

[Oversleep]

Or store too much fortune and Odium escapes from Braize.

What if that is his plan? Of course, first he needs just to wipe out population of Roshar, but that's a detail.

[Lazarus52980]

I was just listening to Hero of Ages this morning, and Sazed said that the inquisitors with their spike for feruchemical health could not store it as fast as a normal feruchemist due to the loss of power inherant to hemalurgy (which was why they had to rest so much).  Assuming that is a standard result, then spiking someone for a feruchemical ability they already have should allow them to store more of an attribute at a quicker rate than someone unspiked .

[Stormgate]

Makes sense. You would probably be protected from the cost of storing, so storing health wouldn't cause you to spontaneously catch a cold (well, it might, but) and cause you to die from it. With an easier example, you wouldn't be able to store enough strength to make your body collapse under the weight of its own body, or your body would be supported.

[Voidus]

Makes sense. You would probably be protected from the cost of storing, so storing health wouldn't cause you to spontaneously catch a cold (well, it might, but) and cause you to die from it. With an easier example, you wouldn't be able to store enough strength to make your body collapse under the weight of its own body, or your body would be supported.

Tapping a trait allows you to be protected from the side effects but we have numerous WoB that storing does not. Indeed that's kind of the point of most of them.

 

 

I was just listening to Hero of Ages this morning, and Sazed said that the inquisitors with their spike for feruchemical health could not store it as fast as a normal feruchemist due to the loss of power inherant to hemalurgy (which was why they had to rest so much).  Assuming that is a standard result, then spiking someone for a feruchemical ability they already have should allow them to store more of an attribute at a quicker rate than someone unspiked .

It's been mentioned before but I find it pretty suspect, since people could only store maybe 20% of their health safely anyway but are capable of storing 100% then for Inquisitors to be noticeably impaired their spikes would have to have decayed to less than 20% power which seems pretty unlikely.

[BramFinem]

Actually, accordng to the Treatise Metallurgic from the Mistborn Adventure Game, hemalurgically spiking a Feruchemist with the metal they already have only allow them to use the spike donor's metalminds, not allow them to store/tap with any more power

[Yata]

Actually, accordng to the Treatise Metallurgic from the Mistborn Adventure Game, hemalurgically spiking a Feruchemist with the metal they already have only allow them to use the spike donor's metalminds, not allow them to store/tap with any more power

Maybe in the Mag, because in the Books I am sure you gain all the power of a Ferring through a Spike.

Without this Marsh can't compound youth to stay alive during Wax & Wayne Era. End we know the Inquisitor may use their Spike as Metalmind therefore they are able to store attribute and create new metalmind (We need a word for a Spike+Metalmind ...SpikeMind ? )

[Voidus]

Maybe in the Mag, because in the Books I am sure you gain all the power of a Ferring through a Spike.

Without this Marsh can't compound youth to stay alive during Wax & Wayne Era. End we know the Inquisitor may use their Spike as Metalmind therefore they are able to store attribute and create new metalmind (We need a word for a Spike+Metalmind ...SpikeMind ? )

I think BramFinem was only talking about getting a spike for a metal you already have feruchemical powers for, not for all feruchemical spikes.

[Yata]

I think BramFinem was only talking about getting a spike for a metal you already have feruchemical powers for, not for all feruchemical spikes.

I misread his post... doh 

[BramFinem]

Yeah, Voidus is right, I was talking about a metal you already have. A non ferring spiked gains the ability and acess to the victems metalminds, though. I have always had the Headcannon that when they captured a Feruchemist, they melted down their metalminds and used them to steal their powers. That way, the Inquisitor has some immediate stores right off the bat. That, and the cruel irony.

[Voidus]

Yeah, Voidus is right, I was talking about a metal you already have. A non ferring spiked gains the ability and acess to the victems metalminds, though. I have always had the Headcannon that when they captured a Feruchemist, they melted down their metalminds and used them to steal their powers. That way, the Inquisitor has some immediate stores right off the bat. That, and the cruel irony.

I think that melting weakens the stores a bit, still better than no stores at all and I'm not entirely sure but something to keep in mind.

It's a good thing they never tried to steal Feruchemical copper then, a Keepers copperminds probably contain hints to where Inquisitors could find a lot of other keepers. 

[Yata]

I think that melting weakens the stores a bit, still better than no stores at all and I'm not entirely sure but something to keep in mind.

It's a good thing they never tried to steal Feruchemical copper then, a Keepers copperminds probably contain hints to where Inquisitors could find a lot of other keepers. 

they had other priority than waste a Feruchemist to obtain a Spike (and I think that a Feruchemist will erase his Coppermind to avoid something like that)

[Oversleep]

Their copperminds were full of knowledge, but I doubt they would store regular memories there. Just anything they find worthy of remembering (Elend's speech, for example).

Also, I doubt each Keeper would know much, the basic strategy for conspiracies is that each member doesn't know much about others, so when he will be broken at tortures he won't give away where they are. You can't tell what you don't know.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Oversleep

[Yata]

Their copperminds were full of knowledge, but I doubt they would store regular memories there. Just anything they find worthy of remembering (Elend's speech, for example).

Also, I doubt each Keeper would know much, the basic strategy for conspiracies is that each member doesn't know much about others, so when he will be broken at tortures he won't give away where they are. You can't tell what you don't know.

Yeah and The Inquisitor be able to access the Victim's Metalmind isn't something sure when You spike a Feruchemist, it's probably happen but it's not sure.

 

Without think about that a Feruchemist may erase his own Coppermind to avoid something like that.... (he have to tap all the coppermind quite simple)

[Jondesu]

Their copperminds were full of knowledge, but I doubt they would store regular memories there. Just anything they find worthy of remembering (Elend's speech, for example).

Also, I doubt each Keeper would know much, the basic strategy for conspiracies is that each member doesn't know much about others, so when he will be broken at tortures he won't give away where they are. You can't tell what you don't know.

 

Actually, Sazed noted that each Keeper's copperminds contained the full knowledge, even the subjects they weren't focusing on (that's why he had the engineering texts to do the trick with the canals).  Since it was all focused on history and subjects suppressed by the Lord Ruler, though, I don't know that they'd need to worry about the metalminds themselves being taken.  Their existence would have been a secret they wouldn't want out more than the specific contents.

 

DataYeah and The Inquisitor be able to access the Victim's Metalmind isn't something sure when You spike a Feruchemist, it's probably happen but it's not sure.

 

Without think about that a Feruchemist may erase his own Coppermind to avoid something like that.... (he have to tap all the coppermind quite simple)

The only thing I wonder about that is that as Sazed ascended, he noted that the full contents of the metalminds would have been too much for any mortal mind to hold.  I don't know if that means they couldn't have tapped them all, or just couldn't have remembered it all if they did, but I do wonder if they could successfully erase a metalmind that quickly.

 

jW

[Yata]

The only thing I wonder about that is that as Sazed ascended, he noted that the full contents of the metalminds would have been too much for any mortal mind to hold.  I don't know if that means they couldn't have tapped them all, or just couldn't have remembered it all if they did, but I do wonder if they could successfully erase a metalmind that quickly.

 

jW

Of course I didn't mean that the keeper may remeber all the Informations, was just a method to erase their Coppermind.

 

But probably they may not know about the Hemalurgy and of course they can't think to erase their Coppermind.

[Voidus]

they had other priority than waste a Feruchemist to obtain a Spike (and I think that a Feruchemist will erase his Coppermind to avoid something like that)

Well wasting one feruchemist to find a dozen is a pretty good trade and feruchemists don't even know about basic hemalurgy, let alone that it could use their copperminds.

 

 

Their copperminds were full of knowledge, but I doubt they would store regular memories there. Just anything they find worthy of remembering (Elend's speech, for example).

Also, I doubt each Keeper would know much, the basic strategy for conspiracies is that each member doesn't know much about others, so when he will be broken at tortures he won't give away where they are. You can't tell what you don't know.

They get most of it by having another keeper recite all of their copperminds, which means they'd remember a lot of those lessons which could at the least point towards one Keeper.

[Chairmanobvious]

I believe it would enable you to store faster, as Sazed says something about it in HoA; that the new Inquisitors' spikes allowed them to store attributes, but more slowly due to the law of Hemalurgic decay. So, with double Feruchemy, it might stack the storing speed to be greater than before.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Chairmanobvious