The Bands of Mourning Chapter 2 Discussion.

[Blightsong]

Chapter two of Bands of Mourning is up on Tor.

 

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Edited December 14, 2015 by Kurkistan
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[Noblehunter]

Is Sanderson writing these chapters knowing they'll be teasers? Because that last line is just mean.

 

I'm faintly surprised that Steris' backup still means the wedding is delayed. I'd have though she'd have 100% redundancy, just change the venue and they're all set.

[DSC01]

Yeah, that last line...

As for the wedding delay, note that it was always a part of Steris' plans. Odd as she is, she still understands that it's inappropriate to drag stunned wedding guests over to a new venue after disaster strikes at the original one. If I had just been doused in a hundred gallons of water, I'd be less than receptive to immediately picking up the event elsewhere, and I'm pretty laid back. Some of the stiff nobles in attendance would very much not be described that way.

[DreamEternal]

Honestly, I feel it was good, but Marasi convincing Wayne to move on felt a tad forced. And I almost cringed at how distorted the popular perception of Vin became .

[Argent]

 

“No, not Him,” Steris said. “Just cosmic chance rolling the dice anytime I pass, and always hitting all ones. There seems to be a poetry to it all.” She closed her eyes. “Of course the wedding would fall apart. Several tons of water falling through the roof? Why wouldn’t I have seen that? It’s so utterly outlandish it had to happen. At least the priest didn’t get murdered this time.”

 

Oh, Steris. You do subtle disgruntlement like no one else.

 

 

“Now, what kinda talk is that?” he demanded. “You’ve given up? Is that how the Ascendant Warrior was? Huh?”

 

“No, in fact,” Marasi said. “She walked up to the man she wanted, slapped the book out of his hand, and kissed him.”

 

That's... not how I remember it. But I choose to remember it this way from now on.

 

 

The kandra smiled broadly. “Tell me, Miss Colms. What do you know about the nature of Investiture and Identity?”

 

Oh, Brandon. Oh, Brandon, Brandon. How smug did you feel when you were thinking how we are going to react to those two simple words there at the end? Because there is no way this was written without the confidence that people are going to lose it.

[DreamEternal]

That's... not how I remember it. But I choose to remember it this way from now on.

No, no, no. That destroys all the romance in their relationship. Stupid time making things shallower.

[DSC01]

I suspect that he wasn't really convinced. Wayne isn't above telling someone what they want to hear to avoid a discussion he doesn't want to have.

He's often able to make things go his way by just pretending that they are as he wants them (via his various disguises), and I think he extends that to parts of his life that aren't going to change. I thought it was very interesting to find out that Wayne isn't as clueless about Ranette as we had previously thought. But he wants Ranette to love him, so he pretends that she's always on the verge of coming around, even though he's known for years that it's just not going to happen.

So when Marasi tells him he needs to move on, bringing up a very good reason that his pretending that he's going to win her over is indeed just pretending (that she had a girlfriend), he goes along with it. He doesn't want to talk about it.

That's my take, anyway.

[Moogle]

Looks like the chances of TLR's mysterious metalminds being aluminum just shot up dramatically...

Could also be a discussion on how people use others' metalminds.

[DSC01]

Yeah, I was just thinking about that today. If you are an aluminum ferring (what is that--Trueself?), and you're storing Identity as heavily as possible, wouldn't that make you have no Identity at all? At least for a time. It seems like, at that point, you could tap any aluminummind and assume the Identity stored therein.

Edited December 14, 2015 by DSC01

[Noblehunter]

The mention of identity makes me think that whatever the Bands are, they may actually be useable (their owner being centuries dead and all). I don't see how whatever's stored in them could be worth significant effort though.

[Argent]

Yeah, I was just thinking about that today. If you are an aluminum ferring (what is that--Trueself?), and you're storing Identity as heavily as possible, wouldn't that make you have no Identity at all? At least for a time. It seems like, at that point, you could tap any aluminummind and assume the Identity stored therein.

 

But that's still your Identity. So you become more yourself, perhaps bolstering your personality traits. Not as useful. 

[Moogle]

But that's still your Identity. So you become more yourself, perhaps bolstering your personality traits. Not as useful. 

 

I'm not DSC, but from what I understand the point is to store your Identity, allowing you to use the metalminds of others, then tap TLR's Identity in his Bands of Mourning to assume his.

 

The implications are potentially enormous, depending on how Identity works. As the legends say, it might give you TLR's powers by making you into a Mistborn+Feruchemist.

 

EDIT: We know Hemalurgy spikes steal enough of the person's identity to let you use their metalminds (possibly) - this implies to me that your Identity is in some sense your powers/links to your world's Investiture, which to me implies to me that this is possible. But I am extremely uncertain in this analysis.

 

EDIT2: Another possibility would be that the tapped Identity is not permanent, like so many other traits. In this case, you'd only be a Mistborn+Feruchemist while tapping, which balances Feruchemical aluminum's power at least a little bit.

 

Not sure if you could Compound stolen Identity and make yourself permanent aluminumminds to keep this up forever... I am inclined to say that Compounding aluminum should be possible, but WoBs always RAFO it.

 

EDIT3: Also, that last thing could mean that tapping a lot of stored Identity briefly makes you a more powerful Allomancer - which would of course imply that Feruchemical aluminum is how you "Reverse Compound" Allomancy. I originally proposed that idea for the use of Feruchemical duralumin, but of course it all depends on how Identity works... being a Twinborn with Feruchemical aluminum could be really useful, which is cool.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Moogle

[Stormgate]

On the bright side, looks like he will finally come through on all those RAFOs about Identity. On the downside, he left us with a storming Voidbringer of a last line. I have mixed feelings about the last line.

[DSC01]

I'm not DSC, but from what I understand the point is to store your Identity, allowing you to use the metalminds of others, then tap TLR's Identity in his Bands of Mourning to assume his.

 

The implications are potentially enormous, depending on how Identity works. As the legends say, it might give you TLR's powers by making you into a Mistborn+Feruchemist.

 

EDIT: We know Hemalurgy spikes steal enough of the person's identity to let you use their metalminds (possibly) - this implies to me that your Identity is in some sense your powers/links to your world's Investiture, which to me implies to me that this is possible. But I am extremely uncertain in this analysis.

 

EDIT2: Another possibility would be that the tapped Identity is not permanent, like so many other traits. In this case, you'd only be a Mistborn+Feruchemist while tapping, which balances Feruchemical aluminum's power at least a little bit.

 

Not sure if you could Compound stolen Identity and make yourself permanent aluminumminds to keep this up forever... I am inclined to say that Compounding aluminum should be possible, but WoBs always RAFO it.

 

EDIT3: Also, that last thing could mean that tapping a lot of stored Identity briefly makes you a more powerful Mistborn - which would of course imply that Feruchemical aluminum is how you "Reverse Compound" Allomancy. I originally proposed that idea for the use of Feruchemical duralumin, but of course it all depends on how Identity works... being a Twinborn with Feruchemical aluminum could be really useful, which is cool.

 

That is exactly what I'm saying. While metalmind stores need to be keyed to the Identity of the one drawing on them in order to be used, aluminum seems like it has to be an exception. After all, it stores the very attribute which is normally the key to using the metalmind, so if you store all of your Identity, you'll be without a key to your own metalmind, unless aluminum is the exception to the rule.

Edited December 14, 2015 by DSC01

[Moogle]

That is exactly what I'm saying. While metalmind stores need to be keyed to the Identity of the one drawing on them in order to be used, aluminum seems like it has to be an exception. After all, it stores the very attribute which is normally the key to using the metalmind, so if you store all of your Identity, you'll be without a key to your own metalmind, unless aluminum is the exception to the rule.

 

Feruchemy doesn't normally let you go to 0 on your traits, so I don't think this is a problem. (I imagine it lets you go close enough to 0 to let you use other's metalminds, but that is still speculation.)

 

I also think it's quite possible that storing identity only temporarily changes you - much like after you stop storing in a pewtermind, your muscles return to normal. Otherwise the name "Trueself" would be quite strange - you could never be your true self because normal Ferrings can't get more identity out than what they put in.

 

I mean, my interpretation of Trueself is that you become really like yourself, which means when you tap an aluminummind you should briefly be super-identitied. But when we're getting into interpretations of (possibly poor) Ferring names, I suppose I should know better than to try and theorize off of them lest I turn into a house of cards.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Moogle

[Stormgate]

Feruchemy doesn't normally let you go to 0 on your traits, so I don't think this is a problem. (I imagine it lets you go close enough to 0 to let you use other's metalminds, but that is still speculation.)

 

I also think it's quite possible that storing identity only temporarily changes you - much like after you stop storing in a pewtermind, your muscles return to normal.

I call those 'renewable' attributes (weight, speed, probably warmth, determination, etc.) I actually think that aluminum stores a depletable attribute (such as memories, investiture, etc.)

[Moogle]

I call those 'renewable' attributes (weight, speed, probably warmth, determination, etc.) I actually think that aluminum stores a depletable attribute (such as memories, investiture, etc.)

 

I edited my post with a bit more on this a little too late (oops), but while I think it's possible you're right, I think "Trueself Ferring" is an awful name if it isn't a "renewable" attribute.

[DSC01]

I think we really just don't know enough yet to say exactly what happens when you store your Identity. Does it turn you into a blank slate? Then what? You can go out and turn yourself into a totally different person, then tap your metalmind to revert to your saved self? Some of what we've discussed here suggests that TLR must have stored up his Identity as a... safeguard? Against what?

[Moogle]

I think we really just don't know enough yet to say exactly what happens when you store your Identity. Does it turn you into a blank slate? Then what? You can go out and turn yourself into a totally different person, then tap your metalmind to revert to your saved self? Some of what we've discussed here suggests that TLR must have stored up his Identity as a... safeguard? Against what?

 

I'll agree that we don't know much, so in-depth speculation is most likely to be pointless.

 

That said, I did propose a few incredibly speculative possibilities for why TLR would want Identity. Here's a bunch of my current thoughts:

• Allows for protecting against Soothing/Rioting without burning copper and blinding yourself to the fact that someone's trying.
• Allows you to Reverse Compound Allomancy, which is to say increases your power as an Allomancer (perhaps explaining TLR's super-Soothing).
• Backup in case he was Hemalurgically spiked.
  • Feruchemical gold handles this, however, so it seems unlikely. Maybe it makes it harder to spike you/reduces chances of death when spiked? Or maybe it was for if he was spiked and lost both Allomantic gold and Feruchemical gold
    • What actually happens if you spike a Mistborn for one power and they survive? This is going on my question list.
• Allows one to resist outside influences like Ruin.

[+Slowswift]

Loved Wayne in disguise as Gordon Ramsay.

[Stormgate]

Yes, it is quite fun. I was curious about one thing: the kandra specifically said that the person he had selected for the task had refused to do it. So who is this kandra? What is his mission?

[DSC01]

 

I'll agree that we don't know much, so in-depth speculation is most likely to be pointless.

 

That said, I did propose a few incredibly speculative possibilities for why TLR would want Identity. Here's a bunch of my current thoughts:

• Allows for protecting against Soothing/Rioting without burning copper and blinding yourself to the fact that someone's trying.
• Allows you to Reverse Compound Allomancy, which is to say increases your power as an Allomancer (perhaps explaining TLR's super-Soothing).
• Backup in case he was Hemalurgically spiked.
  • Feruchemical gold handles this, however, so it seems unlikely. Maybe it makes it harder to spike you/reduces chances of death when spiked? Or maybe it was for if he was spiked and lost both Allomantic gold and Feruchemical gold
    • What actually happens if you spike a Mistborn for one power and they survive? This is going on my question list.
• Allows one to resist outside influences like Ruin.

 

 

I think a backup makes more sense than you give it credit for. As you said, he could very well be worried that he would have to recover from losing his gold. He also might not have a lot of faith in gold to be able to heal his abilities back. He probably is aware that it would from his time holding Preservation's power, but he was probably fuzzy on a lot of the details of the information he retained from his time holding the power. One would doubt that the workings of the magic systems would be among the details he would be fuzzy on, but one never knows. Whatever the case may be, the mere possibility of losing his gold to a spike should be enough to make that paranoid fellow make a contingency plan.

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

Yes, it is quite fun. I was curious about one thing: the kandra specifically said that the person he had selected for the task had refused to do it. So who is this kandra? What is his mission?

 

Master all 4 elements. Save world. Easy.

 

 

Do we know why Harmony wants the Bands? Is it for himself or for another person to use?

Edited December 15, 2015 by SmurfAquamarineBodies

[Moogle]

Do we know why Harmony wants the Bands? Is it for himself or for another person to use?

 

I was under the impression that it was not Harmony who wanted them, but a "kandra researcher". Given Harmony is distracted, I'm feeling reasonably confident this is happening due to the kandra's own initiative.

[Kadrok]

I really like Steris. She's so sweet, and she tries so hard.

 

Also, Marasi isn't hung up on Wax, and she's coming into her own. She's a Cadmium Misting and was the second pick to a Crasher. It excites me how much she's growing. *standing ovation*

 

Also, INVESTITURE AND IDENTITY?! Just when I was all excited about Marasi's role, Brandon hit me with that.