Mid-Range Game 10: Divided Loyalties

[Amanuensis]

Ada I appreciate that you continued to give us info even after we tried to kill you. Unfortunately, you have declared yourself a diagrammist and your information has progressively deteriorated from all-important to arbitrary. We have gotten more and more info in the last few cycles and we no longer need you. Even if I didn't think this, I couldn't have stopped the others from killing you. Sorry. Adavantos.

 

Don't worry about it, Kyn. I understand completely. Whatever it takes to win, right?

[twelfthrootoftwo]

All right. Let's see if it works this time. Adavantos

[Seonid]

It's a logical next step. If we actually believe Ada is telling the truth about Clanky, which we shouldn't assume. In fact, we should treat all information gained from Ada as suspect until verified by a scholar.

EDIT: color

Edited January 4, 2016 by Seonid

[TheMightyLopen]

I am returned! And I seem to have accrued a good deal of suspicion in my absence. While I think the real reason for that is partly the claim and partly trying to be more assertive, I'm choosing to believe that suspicion is inversely proportional to activity level. Thus, activity! I should hopefully also be much less distracted, which is a bonus.

Okay. I am indeed claiming Assassin, not contact with one. My scan results:

C1: Polking targeted Maill

C2: Clanky targeted Stink

C3: Clanky targeted PK (this was after he claimed Scholar)

C4: No one targeted Aonar

C5: Creccio targeted Creccio

C6: No one targeted Adavantos (this was directly after the roleclaim)

C7: forgot to put in order

C8: No one targeted PK

C9: Seonid targeted Adavantos

You can see why I said Clanky is almost certainly a protective role. Note that I didn't say he wasn't a Diagrammist. If he does turn out to be, I'd suspect PK.

Seonid, do you have an explanation for targeting Ada?

I'll add that I'm suspicious of Twei for obvious reasons, but I don't have enough faith in role distribution to immediately vote for her.

Ok. The second part of that is a good point, which I didn't think of. But I wasn't really voting for polking on suspicion that he was a diagrammist. I was voting for him partly based on inactivity, and partly because I thought he was the cook who had the bad taste to go after Mail. That makes him more of a wild card than someone actually helpful regardless of alignment, to my thinking. Also, I made a typo when I said D2. I meant D1, obviously.

I don't think there's anything else that jumps to mind. Oh, I'm Bort's superior, and he hasn't responded to PMs since the 23rd.

I was going to tell Ripple not to protect me, but too late, I guess.

That's about it. Lopen, did that answer your questions?

 

First of all, I wasn't suspicious of you because of your activity levels. You've been one of the more active players. My suspicion of you is because a few of your posts seemed like you were protecting Mail, and maybe Ada a little too. I'd have to go back and check exactly why I got that impression, but it's nothing that can't be explained really. I think I do believe your claim of Assassin. With yours and Kynedaths scan of polking targeting players(Mail on Cycle 1 and me on Cycle 4, I think?), and Mail being saved, and me not dying, I'm inclined to believe he's either a Surgeon or Edgedancer. Also, if we're believing Ada's claim that Clanky was a Diagrammist, I'd say that most likely clears polking because of the way Clanky was kinda trying to lynch him(as well as Ada seemingly trying to frame him by not killing him). As well as his protection on me, and even on Mail, since I think the general consensus was that Mail needed to survive for at least a couple Cycles, and a protection is the only way to insure that. Even though Mail turned out to be a Diagrammist, we know Clanky most likely protected Venture on the 1st cycle, and I doubt the diagrammists started with 2 lynch protecting roles.

 

About that typo. Haha, yeah, I'm a stickler for details. Sorry about that! 

 

About Ventures attack on Cycle 1. Now it really seems like a WGG(assuming Clanky was a Diagrammist).

 

Living players analysis:

 

1. Elkanah(Edgedancer) I believe he is good. Mostly because 1. He all but claimed Edgedancer when he announced he was aware of Kippers role because of his own. I do not think that would be a good move for an eliminator as it would most likely draw attack from Ghostbloods(me  ), because of the win condition. 2. He saved Kynedath when Ada was lynched. I've already stated that I doubt the Diagrammists have 2 lynch protective roles, so by his protection of Kynedath, I believe that all but clears him.

2. Kynedath(Assassin) I believe he is good because of him almost dying to a Diagrammist attack, but subsequent protection by Elkanah. His posts also seem helpful and village-y. To Kynedath personally. I do agree with your suspicion of Tony Shark, but believe it would be best to get rid of the Diagrammists 2nd kill ability now. I would be perfectly fine with going after Tony Shark next Cycle, or even suggesting a Cook take him out now. Would you mind telling us your Assassin findings?

3. Twei(Assassin?) Highly dependant on Clanky's alignment. Which is highly dependent on Ada's honesty about his 'scans.' I personally think he's telling the truth, but I guess I wouldn't really be surprised if he was lying. He is a Diagrammist after all, and he did just say "whatever it takes to win, right?" which makes me worry.   Even still, Ada seems like the type to stick with something he said, regardless of alignment. I guess we'll just find out for sure once the game is over. All of that makes me think Twei is probably good. Twei, could we get your Assassin findings? I don't think there's any particular reason not to reveal anything at this point. More information seems like it could only help us.

4. Bort(Cook?) If he is a Cook, most likely good. I don't see what else he could be, but I really wish he would confirm it somehow or say something. Hopefully he'll be able to get on soon and help us out if he is village. Bort, would you mind poisoning Tony Shark?

5. Elbereth(Assassin?) Tough one. Still undecided on her. Could go either way. I do think she's an Assassin, but I'm not sure if that helps me decide if she's suspicious or not.

6. Seonid(???) I have some reason to believe he is good. More on that tomorrow, if we both survive that long! 

7. polking(Surgeon/Edgedancer) Most likely good. Reasons already mentioned.

8. PK(Scholar) I am wondering about him after Clanky protected him on Cycle 4(if that did indeed happen, which I think is the case.). Kinda undecided about him. I guess I'd say leaning towards good actually, but I'm not sure. I would like for him to be a little more active in discussion though. His role is out there, he has that information. Why not formulate theories based off of said information? Or just participate in discussion more than he has(at least lately). I think he's not been online for a bit though, so it may be that he's been busy in RL or something. 

9. Feligon(???) I'm still suspicious of him. His playstyle this game reminds me a lot of his playstyle in QF11. He was an under the radar kind of thread poster, and helped lynch a teammate of his to gain village trust(and if Clanky was a Diagrammist, that's sorta what he did, but in a less trust gaining way, since it was basically just a bandwagon vote this time, and in QF11, he somewhat led the lynch of his Diagrammist teammate(which was actually Mail come to think of it, so it would be funny if both of them were evil again).) I would participate in a lynch against this guy. Sorry Fel, but you seem like a Diagrammist to me. You're lurking habits, and non-participation in lynches(excluding Clanky's) makes me extremely wary of you.

10. Tony Shark(Artifabrian???) Suspicious character. Seems to be lurking. Hasn't been online very recently though, so I'm not sure how much it's lurking or actual inactivity. Reasons for suspicion have already been explained multiple times.

11. Venture(Runner?) If Clanky was a Diagrammist, it very well may have been a WGG on the first Cycle. Not much posting(as per usual), and didn't vote on Ada this Cycle, even though it seemed pretty clear that's the way we should go. Not exactly perfect evidence or reasoning, but makes me fairly suspicious nonetheless. I'm wondering if anyone has a PM with him to confirm his role? I seriously doubt that he would claim runner on the 1st Cycle unless he was one, since it would be fairly obvious if he wasn't.

12. Aonar(???possibly the Diagrammist Elsecaller???) I'm just really not sure. He did slightly suggest that if Ada was protected when we lynched him last time that Ripple might be the one to protect him. Maybe trying to get us to lynch her once Ada was protected? Hasn't posted much, and in my mind is a bit of a lurker. I've seen him on at times, but he hasn't done much, especially lately. He was on just a couple of hours ago too. I'm fairly suspicious of him.

13. Lopen(Scholar) Good.

14. Adavantos(Cook) Evil.

 

On a scale of 10 being positively village, and -10 being absolutely despicable, here's my feelings.

 

I think I'd still say my suspicions are as follows: Feligon(-7), Tony Shark(-6), Venture(-6), Elbereth(-4), Aonar(-4). With Twei(-8) as a possibility if Clanky was actually good.

 

I trust: Elkanah(9), Kynedath(8), Bort(9 dependent on role), Seonid(7) and the evidence regarding polking(8) makes me think he's good as well. With Twei at about 5 or 6 if Clanky was a Diagrammist.

 

PK has got his own category of HUH?????  I need to go over his posts and the posts made about him to have a clearer view of his contributions. I guess for now I'd list him at about 1 or 2.

 

One reason I'm suspicious of Elbereth is her pushing for polkings death. It seems to me that's what the Diagrammists were trying to do. Her reasoning for voting for him were a bit suspect, but not unbelievable I guess. Another thing which confuses me about the Diagrammist team is that my suspects are mostly Sons of Honour, and supposedly all, or at least most, of the dead Diagrammists were SoH as well(Mail, Clanky, and Ada). That seems like a balance issue. Possible motive for the Diagrammists taking out a lot of Ghostbloods early on. Maybe Ada and his group wanted to even things up a little or something. I guess balance wouldn't be affected too much if their numbers didn't include very many of the SoH KR, but it seems as if Clanky may have been a Edgedancer, since Ripple claimed Surgeon(although she may just have been trying to protect herself), and I scanned Arraenae as a Surgeon. Add to that fact that it's very much a possibility that the Diagrammist Elsecaller is a SoH, and things just don't seem right to me. Which is why I suspected Twei was an Edgedancer, and we'd made a mistake by lynching Clanky. Who knows? At this point, we don't have a whole lot of options. I dearly hope Clanky was the Diagrammist protection, and that Ada will actually get lynched this Cycle. It might not be a bad idea to get Bort to try and double tap Ada this Cycle, to make certain we kill a Diagrammist this Cycle. Because if we waste this cycle because Ada's lynch gets blocked, I'm not liking our chances. Especially with the amount of inactivity we've had.

 

Adavantos Wow. I almost did this whole post without voting on Ada. That would have been embarrassing! 

 

@Bort, if you get on before this Cycle ends, Tony Shark and Adavantos would be my two choices for poison!

 

Goodnight all! I'll definitely try to get some more analysis done if I survive to next Cycle!  And if I die, good luck and stay ACTIVE!!! Go Ghostbloods! 

 

Edit: Put the player list in spoilers 'cause my post was so long.

Edited January 4, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Kynedath]

 Would you mind telling us your Assassin findings?

Actually I don't have any. I completely forgot about my ability last cycle. I promise to have one for you guys after rollover though. Not quite sure yet who I should watch.

[Curious Anamaximder]

@Elkanah, Ripple and Phat are both dead. So we're down to 14 players now. I actually think there are still probably 3 or 4 Diagrammists left. More on each living player when I get a laptop.

 

@Venture(or should we call you Anamaximder?), No problem. Playing 2 games at once can be tough. What do you think we should do about Adavantos? Lynch him now, and test to see if their protection is gone? Or go with our other suspicions? I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

 

Edit: @Bort!!!, How's it going? Did you attack anyone last Cycle? How come you're not posting or anything?

A:Adavantos.

[little wilson]

Time!

[Kasimir]

Cycle Eleven: Running Over The Same Old Ground

It was the clatter of a boot against a loose stone that warned Agrigar Leiken. He rolled up the scroll he was examining--translated, of course, into glyphs--and looked up, calmly. “Again?” he asked, aloud. “You may as well come out, now. The wall’s not sufficient cover, and you’re making too much noise.”

The ragtag group of survivors had mostly not yet bothered to draw their weapons. Lopen and Kael led them; the wariness that existed between the Ghostblood and the Son of Honor was, by now, mostly gone. Torren flanked them, a hand going to the leather bandolier of throwing knives he wore, while Sheon Idris assumed an exotic fighting stance, and Maximilianos Sebarial had, at least, remembered to buckle on a sword before going off to confront a known enemy.

Of those who had been plotting their next move in this ongoing struggle, Deadeye was nowhere to be found.

“I’m getting tired of this,” Lopen muttered.

Agrigar cocked an eyebrow. “Do you think I’m not tired?” he wanted to know. “How many times are you going to try to kill me, before it’s enough for you?”

“Until it sticks,” Torren said, darkly. “That would be a good start.” With a flick of his wrist, almost too fast for the eye to follow, the hilt of a throwing knife was in his hand.

“No one needs to die, you know,” Agrigar said.

“Oh?” Sheon Idris asked. “Go on then, Diagrammist. Enlighten us. Are you going to give yourself and your colleagues up?”

“Hardly,” scoffed Agrigar. “It wouldn’t be very professional, for one. For another...as much as I would not enjoy slaughtering my way through the group of you--” his eyes flicked to Torren, “--and while we’re on that topic, you really shouldn’t hold your knife that way, Torren. You might put your own eye out.”

Abruptly, Torren cried out; his fingers flew open, and there was a muted clatter as the throwing knife he’d gripped fell to the floor.

“Better,” Agrigar said. He carried on as if nothing had happened. “As much as I would not enjoy slaughtering my way through the group of you, needs must. The Diagram is quite clear about this.”

“You speak of a Diagram,” Sheon Idris said. “What is it, precisely?”

Agrigar laughed, incredulous. “You know I am guided by the Diagram but you don’t know what it is? How have you even become a Ghostblood in the first place?”

Sheon said, “Skill.”

“Clearly not in information-gathering,” Agrigar mused. “The Diagram, loosely speaking, is a map of the future. Interpreted correctly, we believe it will tell us how to avert disaster. Have you not realised that we are currently facing a Desolation?”

“You tell us nothing we do not already know,” Kael spoke up. “The Desolation must happen, if the Heralds are to return to us.”

“And then what?” Agrigar asked.

“They lead us,” Kael said. “They guide us. Make us better than we are.”

Agrigar clucked his tongue, disapprovingly. “Sloppy,” he said. “You dice with all our lives on a slender, slender hope. I consider myself a Son of Honour, for all our differences, and I’ll tell you a secret: I was exactly like you. I simply found a better path.”

“The Diagram.” Kael did not bother to conceal his scepticism.

Agrigar nodded. “Will you not hear a former brother out?”

Kael said, “I have. I don’t trust you. You’ve talked yourself out of death more than once; as far as I can see, the best way to be sure of you is after you’re dead.”

Abruptly, he staggered, and fell. Blood began pouring out of the corners of his eyes, painting his features in a grotesque mask.

“Pity,” Agrigar said. “I did have the antidote for the Red Death. It is, as you can tell, a fast-acting poison, but a most unpleasant way to go.” Carelessly, he produced a glass vial from his pocket, and dashed it against the wall.

Shards of broken glass crumbled to the ground. A line of blood trickled down Agrigar’s hand.

“How?” Lopen demanded, tersely.

Agrigar’s smile was ice. “You didn’t think the food you had for lunch came from Bort, did you?”

“Bort would rather die than allow someone else into his personal kitchen,” Sheon stated.

“Funny you say that,” Agrigar replied. “That’s exactly what he’s done. Well, then. Are we still doing this?”

It was his turn to stagger and fall, a crossbow bolt protruding from just above his collarbone. A second one embedded itself in his hand.

Lopen inspected the fletching. “Deadeye,” he identified. “He didn’t trust us to get the job done.” He looked distastefully at Agrigar. “Goodbye, then. And good riddance.”

But Agrigar was laughing. “Not...this soon,” he ground out. “I’ll be seeing you, once again.”

“Stop him!” Sheon Idris shouted.

But he was too late. With inhuman endurance, Agrigar Leiken lurched to his feet, charged towards the open window, leaped from it, and was gone.

“I’m getting really tired of this,” said Lopen, aloud, to no one in particular.
 

---

Agrigar Leiken (6) : Kael of the Forge, Torren, Sheon Idris, Lopen, Deadeye, Maximilianos Sebarial

Agrigar Leiken (Adavantos) was lynched and saved!
Bort (Bort) was killed by the Diagrammists!
Kael of the Forge (Elkanah) was poisoned!



Player List

 

1. Seixa (Phattemer): A man who believes he's a Skybreaker Squire
2. John Doe (Stink): A man who thinks he's a fish
3. Locke Tekiel (Orlok)
4. Agrigar Leiken (Adavantos)
5. Aleral (Araris)
6. Kholak Bagar (Honey Badger)
7. Alycia Kavdar (RippleGylf)
8. Walter Kysley (polking): an Azish soldier
9. Krippe (Kipper): a Urithiru postmaster
10. Malarn (Maill): a man who stinks
11. Sheon Idris (Seonid): the late King of Arelon, seeking vengeance on Mr T and his adherents.
12. Baheal Edr (Hael): son of the late Ableah
13. Yallah (Tony Shark)
14. Arran Faenel (Aonar)
15. Hellscythe (Hellscythe)
16. Deadeye (Kynedath)
17. Slalassalas (Paranoid King): swordfighter who's "defeated" many Horneaters
18. Kael of the Forge (Elkanah): an eager emigrant
19. Frank "Gold Frank" Au Faliu (Feligon): a pirate with an nonflying(?) pirate ship, looking for his brother
20. Starri (Starry Smite): an overlooked brightlady
21. Citona Vinid (Shallan)
22. Arina (Arraenae)
23. Torren (Twei): an ex-Skybreaker Radiant, ditched by his spren
24. Inor Haze (Creccio)
25. Maximilianos Sebarial (Venture)
26. Lopen (The Mighty Lopen)
27. Jain (Lightsworn Panda): a walking, talking panda
28. Moros (DeathClutch)
29. Edurams (Sart)
30. Bort (Bort)
31. Mace (Mace Windu): a strange man who wields a purple sword-thing
32. Ashei Ghetti (Burnt Spaghetti)
33. Cla (Clanky)
34. Elba (Elbereth)
35. Zas (Zas): a creative shoemaker seeking flesh for new shoes
36. Lorna (Alvron): a huntress

Edited November 2, 2016 by Alvron

[Curious Anamaximder]

Adavantoswas saved. That raises a lot of suspicions. Edited January 4, 2016 by Anamaximder

[Paranoid King]

The result from scanning Clanky was:

 

Son of Honor Surgeon

[Amanuensis]

Just read the tags, Kas. Laughed far too much for my own good <3

Edited January 4, 2016 by Adavantos

[Seonid]

Twei. It was a choice between her and Clanky. I don't know why we'd bother with Ada again until the protection is dealt with.

[Amanuensis]

Seonid, I'm curious. What's your role?

[Seonid]

Ada, I'm curious. Why do you think I'd tell you? It's either important, and therefore worth keeping secret on its own merits, or not important, and worth keeping secret to provide a hiding space for the few remaining roles that are both important and unknown.

[Amanuensis]

It's actually the only living role I don't know, and I'm just curious if it's the one that could actually get me killed or not.

 

No worries though I respect your decision to keep it a secret

Edited January 4, 2016 by Adavantos

[Elbereth]

(I just wrote up this whole post and deleted it by mistake, so if I seem to skip over something, ask and I'll clarify).

First of all, I wasn't suspicious of you because of your activity levels. You've been one of the more active players. My suspicion of you is because a few of your posts seemed like you were protecting Mail, and maybe Ada a little too. I'd have to go back and check exactly why I got that impression, but it's nothing that can't be explained really. I think I do believe your claim of Assassin. With yours and Kynedaths scan of polking targeting players(Mail on Cycle 1 and me on Cycle 4, I think?), and Mail being saved, and me not dying, I'm inclined to believe he's either a Surgeon or Edgedancer. Also, if we're believing Ada's claim that Clanky was a Diagrammist, I'd say that most likely clears polking because of the way Clanky was kinda trying to lynch him(as well as Ada seemingly trying to frame him by not killing him). As well as his protection on me, and even on Mail, since I think the general consensus was that Mail needed to survive for at least a couple Cycles, and a protection is the only way to insure that. Even though Mail turned out to be a Diagrammist, we know Clanky most likely protected Venture on the 1st cycle, and I doubt the diagrammists started with 2 lynch protecting roles.

Yeah, I know my activity levels aren't suspicious. But I have been less active recently, and I want to get back to normal, so I'm choosing to believe that the more I pos the less suspicious I'll be. And hey, maybe it's true! The more I say, the more you can tell about my opinions and stuff, and so you can tell if I seem Village or not more accurately.

I know that polking isn't a Cook now, since Twei's scan. But originally I thought he might be a Cook, and even after I found out he wasn't, there was probably still some residutal suspicion.

I was going to suggest that Stink and PK are suspect for having been protected by Clanky, but I don't know if that's true or not any more. I'm inclined to trust Lopen's scan, actually, given that 1) he's probably innocent in my book, and 2) PK and Stink seem like reasonable protects for a Village Surgeon/Edgedancer. C2 we were still discussing Stink's reveal and how it was dangerous to have a revealed Runner, and C3 was when PK came under heavy suspicion and then claimed Scholar. So I'm more willing to believe Clanky was good.

Plus Adavantos is still alive, of course. Hmph. We need to find that Edgedancer/Surgeon if we're going to get anywhere. Alternatively, the Diagrammists have a Lightweaver and they know of a Surgeon (since Adavantos apparently knows everyone, this is plausible), and they're just redirecting the Surgeon's protects.

...That's not a comfortable thought. I would suggest that the Surgeons not protect anyone and we try to lynch Adavantos again, but that just leaves the Diagrammists free reign, with the possibility of still not killing Adavantos. I don't know what to do about that.

Oh, sorry, I forgot to scan anyone last night. I've already put in an order for today, so that even if I don't change it to anyone better later on in the cycle, I still get a result.

[Kynedath]

Going back to Twei's post, I see that she/he claimed that either dead or inactive or diagrammist people were the ones who were targeting her targets. None of the people would have said anything unless they were inactive and then came back on.

 

We don't even know if Clanky targeted Ada in the first place since Twei was the one to say that they did. It seems odd that someone who was currently inactive would be protecting Ada.

 

Sorry I didn't kill him guys. My aim was just a little bit off.

Also thanks for making Deadeye an crossbowman Wilson/Kas.

 

Edit: Also, I tracked myself last night since I didn't know who else to target and nobody targeted me.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Kynedath

[TheMightyLopen]

Adavantos. He's already stated in thread that there's a way to do it. I say we should try it.

 

Assassins, as much as I'd like for you to follow Ada this time and we might be able to catch his protection, I strongly advise you to not do that. Elbereth, I suggest following me, Kynedath, or polking. Kynedath, I suggest following Seonid or Elbereth. If we are able to follow someone who is murdered by the Diagrammist kill, we will be able to catch an eliminator through that. I want you to have separate lists of people to follow so you don't somehow end up following the same player. And if we are able to lynch Ada, and the following Cycle, lynch Twei, the Diagrammist protection will be gone, and we'll be able to lynch the Diagrammist we found through your Assassin findings, allowing us to have somewhat of a chance. I want to kill Ada this Cycle because we have to put a stop to 2 Diagrammist kills each Cycle, otherwise all hope is lost. We have too few active players to play it safe. Please listen to me. Or not, I'm not sure it matters much anymore.

 

Also, Asssassins. You shouldn't track yourself because if you're murdered by the Diagrammists, you can't exactly reveal that later on. 

 

@GM's, An Assassin is able to see the Diagrammist kill right?

 

Edit: removed vote

Edited January 5, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[little wilson]

@GM's, An Assassin is able to see the Diagrammist kill right?

 

Absolutely.

[Kynedath]

 

Adavantos. He's already stated in thread that there's a way to do it. I say we should try it.

 

Assassins, as much as I'd like for you to follow Ada this time and we might be able to catch his protection, I strongly advise you to not do that. Elbereth, I suggest following me, Kynedath, or polking. Kynedath, I suggest following Seonid or Elbereth. If we are able to follow someone who is murdered by the Diagrammist kill, we will be able to catch an eliminator through that. I want you to have separate lists of people to follow so you don't somehow end up following the same player. And if we are able to lynch Ada, and the following Cycle, lynch Twei, the Diagrammist protection will be gone, and we'll be able to lynch the Diagrammist we found through your Assassin findings, allowing us to have somewhat of a chance. I want to kill Ada this Cycle because we have to put a stop to 2 Diagrammist kills each Cycle, otherwise all hope is lost. We have too few active players to play it safe. Please listen to me. Or not, I'm not sure it matters much anymore.

 

Also, Asssassins. You shouldn't track yourself because if you're murdered by the Diagrammists, you can't exactly reveal that later on. 

 

@GM's, An Assassin is able to see the Diagrammist kill right?

The only reason that I tracked myself is because I didn't know who else to track.

 

If we try to take out Ada at this point, then he will just be protected again like the last two times we tried. We need to take out his protection, and since there is five claimed assassins, extremely unlikely, one of them is lying. My bet is on Twei. They were probably trying to avoid suspicion since elbereth hadn't claimed yet and there was still a spot open. We need to take out the protection before we go for Ada.

[TheMightyLopen]

Okay, might as well reveal this now. I was hesitant to earlier because I'm struggling to understand why PK would do what he did, but I figure I better just reveal it so we can discuss things. I scanned Clanky as a Diagrammist Surgeon. I don't believe that scan though, especially now that Ada has been protected again, and PK just lied about his scan of Clanky. I don't know why PK lied about it, maybe he's trying to draw a lynch on himself or something? Or try to mess with our heads so we don't lynch Twei for some reason? I have no idea, but in my mind, it's pretty damning evidence against him. PK, anything to say in your defense?

 

Kynedath, I'll try to get back with you very soon on lynching Ada.

[Kynedath]

Lopen, I want to explore the possibilities presented by your alleged reveal.

 

If you are telling the truth, then Twei is probably telling the truth about being an assassin, and since we know that Ada has at least two protection roles, then Clanky was one and there is another protection role out there working for the diagrammists. If Twei is telling the truth, then I believe that Elbereth would not be as he is the only other living player who has claimed assassin, and they are instead another surgeon. Being Ghostblood, Elbereth would fit the bill, and would be diagrammist if he still protected Ada. I feel that Elbereth wouldn't claim when there were already four assassin roles claimed unless he is the real deal, or else he got his info from another source and only claimed assassin to cover the other source, be it another player or another ability.

 

If PK is telling the truth, then Twei is lying and Clanky was just a surgeon that was easy to take out due to his inactivity and inability to respond. In that case, it would seem that you were lying and trying to support a diagrammist. The only conceivable reason to help a diagrammist would be to get info ( none gained) or else you are a diagrammist. If that is the case, then Elbereth is telling the truth about being an assassin.

 

The diagrammists seem to be trying to take out our protective roles. They took out Elkanah, an edgedancer, Ripple and Arraenae, both surgeons, they seem to have killed Clanky by manipulating us into lynching him. There should be two to three protection roles left out there, one being a ghostblood surgeon, the other(s) being edgedancer(s). I believe that either Elbereth or Twei are one of these roles and the other is an assassin. If you are one of these roles and are not Twei or Elbereth, then please try to keep your ability to yourself. Do not let the diagrammists find you.

 

I think that Twei is the liar in this situation, due mostly to the logic of what he/she did. They posted a list of either dead, diagrammist or inactive players as proof of them being an assassin. Elbereth also posted that list, but he also put Seonid on his list, who is more active and never opposed the action. Twei turned our attention towards Clanky, a claimed surgeon, just like the trend that has been occuring and I pointed out in the above paragraph. Other than a few defense and reveal posts, Twei hasn't posted anything. Elbereth on the other hand, has been posting fairly consistently and helpfully. Elbereth would have almost no reason to be believed as the final assassin unless he was the real assassin and he knew he could prove it. (sorry if you're a she Elbereth but you just seem like a guy I guess? It's a lot easier to write you like you're a guy)

 

 

Okay, might as well reveal this now. I was hesitant to earlier because I'm struggling to understand why PK would do what he did, but I figure I better just reveal it so we can discuss things. I scanned Clanky as a Diagrammist Surgeon. I don't believe that scan though, especially now that Ada has been protected again, and PK just lied about his scan of Clanky. I don't know why PK lied about it, maybe he's trying to draw a lynch on himself or something? Or try to mess with our heads so we don't lynch Twei for some reason? I have no idea, but in my mind, it's pretty damning evidence against him. PK, anything to say in your defense?

 

Kynedath, I'll try to get back with you very soon on lynching Ada.

Hate to say it, since you are one of the people that I trust, but that post seems to me to be teeming with suspicion. My distrust of you is growing.

 

First of all, you seem to be taking for granted that we will believe you over PK. After the deal with Twei, I don't want to trust anybody too quickly. I want to get as much info as possible.

 

You seem to be trying to either side-track or mislead the rest of the players by accusing PK while still trying to seem like you are helping the rest of us. You also seem to be avoiding other discussions altogether. I don't mean the last line, but for the last little while, you have been sort-of skirting around the Ada conflict and almost trying to direct the rest of the players to do what you suggest. I don't have enough experience to tell if that is manipulation or simply trying to coordinate the elimination of the eliminators. I have seen an abundance of opinion posts and a significant lack of situation posts like this one. That might be your way of explaining yourself, but I find that this is the best way to lay everything out and look at it in the correct fashion. I may be completely wrong but this helps me think through it.

 

Withstanding that, your posts have been helpful and I do see the wisdom in much (not all) of your suggestions.

 

 

Everybody, I would like to apologize and say that I'm sorry for giving Twei an out by mentionaing the possibility of them being an assassin.

 

Right now, I think that Lopen, PK and Elbereth are suspicious, and that Twei, Tony and obviously Ada are diagrammists.

 

I would love to hear from Twei, Lopen, Elbereth and PK

PS (PK you really need to contribute more than just your scans)

 

EDIT: Kas I think that you set the count-down to the wrong time. It's already done.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Kynedath

[Seonid]

That explains some things, especially why PK would vote Ada when we know that there's a healer running around protecting him. That's more than a little suspicious. After we get Ada out of the way, I think we ought to send a couple of lynch votes his way.

 

I'll answer a couple of questions here, in light of this new information.

 

First, Elbereth, last cycle you asked why I had targeted Ada earlier. I am a Lightweaver, and was redirecting an action from Bort to him. Unfortunately, they killed someone else that cycle, which was frustrating. The cycle before, I redirected Ada's kill from Bort to Jain - that was the one where everyone assumed he had tried to attack polking. It was Bort.

 

The option that Ada is talking about, and that Lopen is likely referencing, is probably me redirecting Ada's kill to himself, getting through his protection. Either that or redirecting the protection away. And honestly, I've thought of doing that. But after some consideration, I think that getting rid of Twei is the best option we have right now. Too much risk in using my power to try and get Ada. We'll take him down after Twei's gone.

[Elbereth]

Adavantos. He's already stated in thread that there's a way to do it. I say we should try it.

And you believed him. You believed a Diagrammist about what he said in thread.

Um... No.

Assassins, as much as I'd like for you to follow Ada this time and we might be able to catch his protection, I strongly advise you to not do that. Elbereth, I suggest following me, Kynedath, or polking. Kynedath, I suggest following Seonid or Elbereth. If we are able to follow someone who is murdered by the Diagrammist kill, we will be able to catch an eliminator through that. I want you to have separate lists of people to follow so you don't somehow end up following the same player. And if we are able to lynch Ada, and the following Cycle, lynch Twei, the Diagrammist protection will be gone, and we'll be able to lynch the Diagrammist we found through your Assassin findings, allowing us to have somewhat of a chance. I want to kill Ada this Cycle because we have to put a stop to 2 Diagrammist kills each Cycle, otherwise all hope is lost.

Okay. While I don't really object your specific suggestions, I don't think that it's good to suggest targets for Assassins in general. It kind of defeats the point. No Diagrammist will target someone if an Assassin is likely to be watching. Thus I'll target whoever I want, without paying too much attention to what anyone says. Also, I'm curious why you would want me to target polking. I mean, if he's a Surgeon (which seems likely, although it occurs to me that he could also be a sixth Assassin, which would be interesting but unlikely), he might get targets, but it's likely to be Ada anyway, especially now that you've suggested him for an Assassin target.

I'm also not sure why you put a vote on Ada again, after he was just saved. It's not that he's an Explorer who can only save himself every other cycle. It would have looked different in the writeup. Of course, we'll have the same problem if we go after any other Diagrammist (except the Surgeon/Edgedancer (assuming they have one), which is a bonus), but if they're protected we'll know the identity of another possible Diagrammist, or they could let that Diagrammist die. Win either way, basically.

First, Elbereth, last cycle you asked why I had targeted Ada earlier. I am a Lightweaver, and was redirecting an action from Bort to him. Unfortunately, they killed someone else that cycle, which was frustrating. The cycle before, I redirected Ada's kill from Bort to Jain - that was the one where everyone assumed he had tried to attack polking. It was Bort.

The option that Ada is talking about, and that Lopen is likely referencing, is probably me redirecting Ada's kill to himself, getting through his protection. Either that or redirecting the protection away. And honestly, I've thought of doing that. But after some consideration, I think that getting rid of Twei is the best option we have right now. Too much risk in using my power to try and get Ada. We'll take him down after Twei's gone.

I see. That does explain it adequately, and it seems we owe you our thanks for keeping Bort alive, though he wasn't actually helpful during that time, unfortunately. And that second bit is something I haven't thought of, and is at least a possibility for double-tapping Diagrammists even without any cooks left.

Okay, might as well reveal this now. I was hesitant to earlier because I'm struggling to understand why PK would do what he did, but I figure I better just reveal it so we can discuss things. I scanned Clanky as a Diagrammist Surgeon. I don't believe that scan though, especially now that Ada has been protected again, and PK just lied about his scan of Clanky. I don't know why PK lied about it, maybe he's trying to draw a lynch on himself or something? Or try to mess with our heads so we don't lynch Twei for some reason? I have no idea, but in my mind, it's pretty damning evidence against him. PK, anything to say in your defense?

Kynedath, I'll try to get back with you very soon on lynching Ada.

I don't really know what to say to this. It does strike me as a little bit rushed, like Hellscythe's attempt to convince us to lynch you in LG15, but I'm not really sure. What's irritating me is that we can't even go back to old cycles and try to tell what side Clanky was on, because the scan could be Elsecalled anyway. I'm more inclined to believe you, however, since Ada said last cycle that Clanky was a Diagrammist, and regardless of whether that's true (he did say that his scans were affected by the traitor Elsecaller), it does match up with your scan.

Doesn't mean I'm not suspicious, though.

The diagrammists seem to be trying to take out our protective roles. They took out Elkanah, an edgedancer, Ripple and Arraenae, both surgeons, they seem to have killed Clanky by manipulating us into lynching him. There should be two to three protection roles left out there, one being a ghostblood surgeon, the other(s) being edgedancer(s). I believe that either Elbereth or Twei are one of these roles and the other is an assassin. If you are one of these roles and are not Twei or Elbereth, then please try to keep your ability to yourself. Do not let the diagrammists find you.

I think that Twei is the liar in this situation, due mostly to the logic of what he/she did. They posted a list of either dead, diagrammist or inactive players as proof of them being an assassin. Elbereth also posted that list, but he also put Seonid on his list, who is more active and never opposed the action. Twei turned our attention towards Clanky, a claimed surgeon, just like the trend that has been occuring and I pointed out in the above paragraph. Other than a few defense and reveal posts, Twei hasn't posted anything. Elbereth on the other hand, has been posting fairly consistently and helpfully. Elbereth would have almost no reason to be believed as the final assassin unless he was the real assassin and he knew he could prove it. (sorry if you're a she Elbereth but you just seem like a guy I guess? It's a lot easier to write you like you're a guy)

(emphasis mine)

Well, Adavantos has stated that he knows everybody's roles. However, I still agree. Don't claim, and don't discuss who you're going to protect with anyone. Protections, like Assassin scans, are the kind of thing that can't be discussed in thread.

And yes, I'm female. Don't worry, though. I have the opposite problem with Creccio, who I always write as a girl. Don't sweat it!

EDIT: Just realized I forgot to vote. I think I'll place a vote on Twei for now, since I'm the only one who knows for certain she's lying (or there are six assassins). May put it on Lopen (EDIT 2: Or PK) later, or Adavantos (if anyone actually figures out a way to kill him successfully [i'm really going to enjoy reading the evil doc when this is done...]).

EDIT 2: Added PK to list of people I may vote for later.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Elbereth

[TheMightyLopen]

Lopen, I want to explore the possibilities presented by your alleged reveal.

 

1. If you are telling the truth, then Twei is probably telling the truth about being an assassin, and since we know that Ada has at least two protection roles, then Clanky was one and there is another protection role out there working for the diagrammists. If Twei is telling the truth, then I believe that Elbereth would not be as he is the only other living player who has claimed assassin, and they are instead another surgeon. Being Ghostblood, Elbereth would fit the bill, and would be diagrammist if he still protected Ada. I feel that Elbereth wouldn't claim when there were already four assassin roles claimed unless he is the real deal, or else he got his info from another source and only claimed assassin to cover the other source, be it another player or another ability.

 

2. If PK is telling the truth, then Twei is lying and Clanky was just a surgeon that was easy to take out due to his inactivity and inability to respond. In that case, it would seem that you were lying and trying to support a diagrammist. The only conceivable reason to help a diagrammist would be to get info ( none gained) or else you are a diagrammist. If that is the case, then Elbereth is telling the truth about being an assassin.

 

3. The diagrammists seem to be trying to take out our protective roles. They took out Elkanah, an edgedancer, Ripple and Arraenae, both surgeons, they seem to have killed Clanky by manipulating us into lynching him. There should be two to three protection roles left out there, one being a ghostblood surgeon, the other(s) being edgedancer(s). I believe that either Elbereth or Twei are one of these roles and the other is an assassin. If you are one of these roles and are not Twei or Elbereth, then please try to keep your ability to yourself. Do not let the diagrammists find you.

 

4. I think that Twei is the liar in this situation, due mostly to the logic of what he/she did. They posted a list of either dead, diagrammist or inactive players as proof of them being an assassin. Elbereth also posted that list, but he also put Seonid on his list, who is more active and never opposed the action. Twei turned our attention towards Clanky, a claimed surgeon, just like the trend that has been occuring and I pointed out in the above paragraph. Other than a few defense and reveal posts, Twei hasn't posted anything. Elbereth on the other hand, has been posting fairly consistently and helpfully. Elbereth would have almost no reason to be believed as the final assassin unless he was the real assassin and he knew he could prove it. (sorry if you're a she Elbereth but you just seem like a guy I guess? It's a lot easier to write you like you're a guy)

 

 

Hate to say it, since you are one of the people that I trust, but that post seems to me to be teeming with suspicion. My distrust of you is growing.

 

5. First of all, you seem to be taking for granted that we will believe you over PK. After the deal with Twei, I don't want to trust anybody too quickly. I want to get as much info as possible.

 

6. You seem to be trying to either side-track or mislead the rest of the players by accusing PK while still trying to seem like you are helping the rest of us. You also seem to be avoiding other discussions altogether. I don't mean the last line, but for the last little while, you have been sort-of skirting around the Ada conflict and almost trying to direct the rest of the players to do what you suggest. I don't have enough experience to tell if that is manipulation or simply trying to coordinate the elimination of the eliminators. I have seen an abundance of opinion posts and a significant lack of situation posts like this one. That might be your way of explaining yourself, but I find that this is the best way to lay everything out and look at it in the correct fashion. I may be completely wrong but this helps me think through it.

 

7. Withstanding that, your posts have been helpful and I do see the wisdom in much (not all) of your suggestions.

 

 

 Everybody, I would like to apologize and say that I'm sorry for giving Twei an out by mentionaing the possibility of them being an assassin.

 

8. Right now, I think that Lopen, PK and Elbereth are suspicious, and that Twei, Tony and obviously Ada are diagrammists.

 

I would love to hear from Twei, Lopen, Elbereth and PK

PS (PK you really need to contribute more than just your scans)

 

EDIT: Kas I think that you set the count-down to the wrong time. It's already done.

 

I numbered your paragraphs so I could reply clearly to each point.

 

1. I still believe that Twei is evil. My scan of Clanky as a Diagrammist does nothing to change my mind of that fact. I don't believe that the Diagrammists started with 2 lynch protective abilities because that would break the game(and I pretty sure Wilson would go to great lengths to insure that that would not happen), since we wouldn't be able to lynch anyone unless we had a surviving Cook on our side. Which would mean that all the Diagrammists would have to do is kill 3 players(Cooks) in the entire game without losing one of their protective abilities, and they would have a guaranteed victory. So, seeing as Ada was still protected, Twei is the obvious Diagrammist protection. It's been put forth that the Diagrammists may have a Lightweaver and they're moving protection to Ada. This is practically impossible. I really don't want to go into the logic to prove this, but if I must, fine. Protection roles we know of. SoH: Arraenae(Surgeon), Clanky(Surgeon), Elkanah(Edgedancer). The only way for them to have another protect is for their extra Radiant to be an Edgedancer. I highly doubt this, unless it's one of the dead SoH's because we know of all the roles/claimed roles for the remaining SoH's. Venture(Runner, most likely true because that would be the single worst role to claim on Cycle 1 if you're lying. Also, if Clanky was good, that means he is most likely good because of the attack on Cycle 1.) Adavantos(Cook. Proven) Kynedath(Assassin, proven), Tony Shark(Artifabrian, at least proven that he's not an Edgedancer or Elsecaller because he has not been online since December 28th) Aonar(Diagrammist Elsecaller. Or at least, most likely the Dia Elsecaller. I don't think he can even be anything else.) That brings us to Ghostbloods: Ripple(Surgeon), polking(Surgeon/Edgedancer, proven by Elbereths scan of Mail on Cycle 1, since Mail was protected and we know who the Cooks were), ???(Diagrammist protection, most likely Edgedancer for balancing out the Elsecaller on the SoH faction). So, it's almost 100% that the Diagrammist is on the Ghostblood faction. Who could it be? Feligon(I know his role, and others' most likely do as well. Not a protection role.) Elbereth(Assassin. Basically proven since she saw Seonid target Ada with his Lightweaving.) PK(Scholar, could be lying if he's an eliminator and they have an Elsecaller, but since Kynedath saw Twei targeting Ada, I believe Twei is the protection. But I'm getting ahead of myself) Seonid(Lightweaver, proven by Elbereths scan and that he moved an attack from Bort to Jain.) Lopen(Scholar. Same reasoning as PK's I suppose.) Twei(???, claimed Assassin as that was the only thing she could claim to keep herself from dying because Kynedath saw her target Ada when he was protected. Since I don't believe her scans, and I do believe Elbereths, she is almost positively the Diagrammist protection.) 

 

2. No, I am not supporting a Diagrammist(by which you mean my proposing we lynch Ada instead of Twei, correct? I only did that because it is a legitimate option, and it would allow us to keep one more of us alive by killing Ada this Cycle instead of next Cycle because he wouldn't be able to use his ability next Cycle if he's dead!). I just listed the reasoning for why I firmly believe Twei is their protection, so I don't think I need to explain myself any further on this point. I'm fine with killing Twei.

 

3. Agreed. Arraenae was taken out by Zas, but these last couple Cycles both Ripple and Elkanah were killed directly by them(and Clanky in a slightly indirect way), so yes, I agree with you there.

 

4. Agreed.

 

5. Sorry if I sound presumptuous or anything, but I'm just stating it like I see it. I'm fine with explaining anything that you want to know, and I've given all the information that I can.

 

6. I didn't mean to sidetrack anyone or anything like that. What could I say? My scan came up different than what PK just revealed. I have to release that info, and I was just trying to dig into what it meant. Anyways, we're going to lynch Twei this Cycle, and Ada next Cycle. It's basically set in stone that those are the 2 we're lynching first. So we have a ton of time to discuss who we should lynch 2 Cycles from now. Which is why I stated my suspicion of PK in the manner that I did. If I die, I want all of you to know how I feel about each and every player because I want to do everything I can to help us all win. As for my suggestions, I'm just trying to propose things that seem like a good idea to me. If I ever do make a suggestion, I try to add all of my reasoning for why I think it should be done. Even then, I won't be upset or anything if you guys do whatever you want. I certainly do!! 

 

7. Thanks! 

 

8. I disagree with some of those obviously. I do believe that PK, Twei and Adavantos are evil, but I also believe that me, Elbereth(probably), and, as much as I hate to say it, Tony Shark are all innocent. Some of that depends on the fact that I do think the eliminators were balanced factionwise. So, with my theory that the Diagrammist Elsecaller is on the SoH faction, and by way of me believing my scan of Clanky to be messed with by said Elsecaller, and the fact that Tony Shark is definitely not the Elsecaller by way of his inactivity, and that Venture is most likely innocent because of stuff said earlier in this post, I believe Aonar is the Diagrammist Elsecaller. That's really the only role available to him. So, since Mail was a Diagrammist(most likely), and Ada is(I wish I could say was ) a Diagrammist, that means that if Aonar is a Diagrammist, he's the last SoH Diagrammist(since I also believe that the Diagrammists started with 6 players, and that there was 3 on each side). Now for my guesses at the Ghostblood side of things. This is assuming that all GB Diagrammists are still alive(which I think is possible). There are 7 Ghostblood players alive: Lopen, PK, Seonid, Twei, polking, Feligon and Elbereth. Out of that group, I am most suspicious of: PK(because he lied about his scan this Cycle), Twei(because of Kynedaths Assassin abilities and her most likely lying about her role), and Feligon(who is the one who I think is innocent if we have already killed a GB Diagrammist).

 

tl;dr Lynching Twei is fine. I think I know who the remaining Diagrammists are. Maybe. The above paragraph is where I discuss my suspicions.

 

Sorry if that's all a bit muddled. I tend to go off-track when I post these longer posts. I got ninja'd by Elbereth, but I can't respond right now. Hopefully later tonight.

 

Edit: Response to Elbereths previous post.

 

I was referring to the Lightweavers abilities as the "way" to lynch him. So I wasn't exactly believing him, since I knew what he was referring to.

 

Since I was suggesting the Lightweaver to try to get Ada killed, I wanted to leave the option for him to move the protection away from Ada. The only way to make sure that happens is to make sure that no other abilities target Ada, so that the Lightweaver doesn't accidentally move one of their actions instead of the protection. Seeing as Seonid is saying he just wants to lynch Twei, we can just scrap this plan. I was trying to give multiple options so that the Diagrammists would have a harder time guessing who was being followed by Assassins. You can pick whoever you want though.

 

See above for reasons why I voted on Ada. Also, if we get another mislynch or blocked lynch, we're most likely sunk. There's 12 players left, and it seems most likely that only Villagers have been killed lately(since we've had 2 blocked lynches, 1 seemingly mislynch on Clanky, and only Ada and the Diagrammists have been killing anyone since Zas died, because of Borts inactiviy). So, if Mail is the only Diagrammist who's been killed, or even if we've killed 2, the numbers are most likely 7:5 or 8:4. If we have even one mislynch or no lynch, and the Diagrammists get 2 kills, coupled with the inactivity of a few players, it's over. If the Diagrammists only started with 4 players, then we're in a good position, but I doubt that, since we started with 36 players. 6/36 is about 16.8%, which along with their abilities and the nature of this game with the lack of information I'd say sounds about right.

 

I don't really know what to say in response to that. I'm not sure what you mean when you say it feels rushed. Like I said in my response to Kynedath, I'm not suggesting we lynch PK this Cycle or anything. I do believe that Clanky was innocent. Mostly because I believe that polking is a protective role, and since he couldn't have sent in a protection because he's not been online recently enough, it has to be someone else. Twei is the obvious answer.

 

I think that's about it. If I missed anything, just tell me.

Edited January 5, 2016 by TheMightyLopen