*Shadows of Self Spoilers* Anyone Else Think Harmony is Messed up?

[mattig89ch Cobalt Guard]

hidy ho all,

 

first and foremost, first post!

 

I just got through the audible sequel to the Allow of Law, Shadows of Self.

 

And, I have to say, of the thousands of ways Harmony could get wax to return to the city, he had him kill off lessie.  Then, instead of coming clean to wax about who was running around messing things up in the city, why they were causing trouble, and what he had done to cause it.  He waits till Lessie is dying in Wax's arms for the second time before owning up to putting her into his life, aproving of her falling in love with him, then forcing him to appear to kill her to convince him to return to the city.

 

Does anyone else feel this is really messed up, or is it just me?

[TwelfthOfSnackTime House Lord]

hidy ho all,

 

first and foremost, first post!

 

I just got through the audible sequel to the Allow of Law, Shadows of Self.

 

And, I have to say, of the thousands of ways Harmony could get wax to return to the city, he had him kill off lessie.  Then, instead of coming clean to wax about who was running around messing things up in the city, why they were causing trouble, and what he had done to cause it.  He waits till Lessie is dying in Wax's arms for the second time before owning up to putting her into his life, aproving of her falling in love with him, then forcing him to appear to kill her to convince him to return to the city.

 

Does anyone else feel this is really messed up, or is it just me?

 

 

Yes it is. But killing Lessie wasn't Sazeds first choice. Lessie was supposed to get him to come back but she rebelled against Harmony and so he took matters into his own hands.

So I wouldn't say he is totally messed up, but doing the best he could do with the circumstances he was given.

[natc Mistborn]

We have no evidence towards Harmony having actually done anything to cause her death, and one actual testimony against that notion.

[tobar14 Oldblood]

Plus harmony is all about balance.  In order for him to too good, some bad stuff has to happen...sort of.  He is holding Ruin & Preservation, so its hard for him to do anything that involves only one of the shards, the other shard will want to have some influence.

[mattig89ch Cobalt Guard]

I feel like I need to put a disclaimer here.  I've never read the other mistborn novels.  I'm not really into fanatasy all that much, ocassionally, sure, but not alot.  I am a fan of the steampunk aestetic, and thats what drew me to alloy of law.  And Alloy of Law led me to Shadows of self.

 

As such, I have a few questions of responces.  First, who is Sazed?  Second, what shards?  Third, Shards of what?

 

Those out of the way, Harmony could have admitted to wax what he'd done.  He could have spoken to wax from the earing he gave him on his way out to the ruffs to come back to the city.  he could have had the kandra (hope I spelled that right) show up again, and tell him to get his butt back to the city.  It seems like any other responce would have been less damaging then forcing Wax to shoot lessie a second time, and only then tell him "oh, by the way, I put her into your life to protect you and love you, then took her away from you.".

 

After that, I think I'd sell off my guns and duster clothes, hang up the law enforcment for good.  Anyone else?

[Landis963 Dakhor Monk]

I feel like I need to put a disclaimer here.  I've never read the other mistborn novels.  I'm not really into fanatasy all that much, ocassionally, sure, but not alot.  I am a fan of the steampunk aestetic, and thats what drew me to alloy of law.  And Alloy of Law led me to Shadows of self.

 

As such, I have a few questions of responces.  First, who is Sazed?  Second, what shards?  Third, Shards of what?

 

Ooh, you're new here.  I have an urge to post a Willy Wonka meme.  Anyway, Sazed is a character from the 1st Mistborn trilogy (which you really should read to get the full impact).  The Shards are... complicated to describe.  Suffice it to say that millennia ago there was only one God, then something Really Bad happened and He got split into a bunch of pieces.  The Shards are the largest of these pieces, and any one of them can turn a person into a lower-case god.  

 

Mistborn spoilers: (don't read until you've read the first Mistborn trilogy, or if you don't care about being spoiled)

After the big climactic battle between two opposing Shards, Sazed absorbed them both in order to fix the world.  The resultant entity is known as "Harmony" by the time of Alloy of Law.

[mattig89ch Cobalt Guard]

oh, that does explain the ending to Shadows of self then.  Why the kandra (I really hope I'm spelling that right) were all bent out of shape over that un-identified metal.  Thanks for that.

 

is it safe to say, that one shard is all about destruction (hence the swear rust and ruin) and the other is about preservation?

[The Ninja Yodeler Forescout]

oh, that does explain the ending to Shadows of self then.  Why the kandra (I really hope I'm spelling that right) were all bent out of shape over that un-identified metal.  Thanks for that.

 

is it safe to say, that one shard is all about destruction (hence the swear rust and ruin) and the other is about preservation?

I would suggest coppermind.net. It answered a lot of my questions starting off. And yea, I guess you could say Ruin is like entropy, and preservation is.. well, preservation. And YES! Read EVERYTHING Cosmere related you can. You'll have a great time with them. I wasnt a huge fantasy fan either. Now I cant stop thinking about all the connections and characters and where everything is going. Love it. Read it.

[mattig89ch Cobalt Guard]

My personal tastes roam more to nior mysteries, spy thrillers (though the jason bourne series hasn't aged well, let me tell you), and scifi. 

 

There are some fantasy books I'm interested in, but it tends not to be strait fantasy, but the other genres with some fantasy mixed in.  The dresden files comes to mind.  I enjoy the noir style of those books then I do the magic portions.

 

bringing this topic back on track, does anyone else have anything else to add on harmonies actions towards our hero Wax?  I would have thought that got some more ground then not.

 

That said, I am very new around here.  Litterally, first day of being registered.

[Charononus Forescout]

My personal tastes roam more to nior mysteries, spy thrillers (though the jason bourne series hasn't aged well, let me tell you), and scifi. 

 

There are some fantasy books I'm interested in, but it tends not to be strait fantasy, but the other genres with some fantasy mixed in.  The dresden files comes to mind.  I enjoy the noir style of those books then I do the magic portions.

 

bringing this topic back on track, does anyone else have anything else to add on harmonies actions towards our hero Wax?  I would have thought that got some more ground then not.

 

That said, I am very new around here.  Litterally, first day of being registered.

 

Nothing concrete to add,  just a gut feeling that there is something else that we don't know yet.  There is a quote from the first trilogy,  "There's always another secret."

Edited November 23, 2015 by Charononus

[mattig89ch Cobalt Guard]

For what its worth, I'm hoping for 2 things to come out of this book.

 

First, a sequel.  I would love some more of Wax, Wayne, and Merrisie.  Even better seeing Wayne actually get somewhere with their gunmaker friend (who's name is escaping me atm).

 

Second, in this next book, Harmony basically crawling to wax on bended knee apologizing for handling that so very badly.  Not litterally mind you, I don't expect a godlike being to actually get down on its knees and beg forgiveness from a mortal.  But some serious gestures to by way of an apology.  No idea what they might be exactly, but something, and something big.

Edited November 23, 2015 by mattig89ch

[Moogle Voidbringer]

Harmony foresaw a disaster if Wax was told who Paalm was, so I find it difficult to really hold that against him.

I'm moving this to the SoS board.

[PeterAhlstrom Sliver]

This is an interesting question.

[mattig89ch Cobalt Guard]

Oh, my apologies.  I didn't see the Shadows of self board when I posted this.

 

Do we know who much/little harmony can see of the future?  Is it generalizations, or a very specific amount?

[Landis963 Dakhor Monk]

For what its worth, I'm hoping for 2 things to come out of this book.

 

First, a sequel.  I would love some more of Wax, Wayne, and Merrisie.  Even better seeing Wayne actually get somewhere with their gunmaker friend (who's name is escaping me atm).

 

Second, in this next book, Harmony basically crawling to wax on bended knee apologizing for handling that so very badly.  Not litterally mind you, I don't expect a godlike being to actually get down on its knees and beg forgiveness from a mortal.  But some serious gestures to by way of an apology.  No idea what they might be exactly, but something, and something big.

 

Yeah, I'm certain that Harmony would be more than willing to apologize personally, but that requires that Wax put his earring back in.  And I don't see that happening for 90% of Bands of Mourning. In the meantime, Harmony'll probably try and keep things out of Wax's way as best he can.  

 

As for Harmony's future sight, this is sort of how it works: Harmony sees every path going forward, and their consequences.  However, I don't believe it's been stated whether he can see the choices that stem from those consequences.  Once he makes a move, the paths change to match.  

[DreamEternal Kandra]

For what its worth, I'm hoping for 2 things to come out of this book.

First, a sequel. I would love some more of Wax, Wayne, and Merrisie. Even better seeing Wayne actually get somewhere with their gunmaker friend (who's name is escaping me atm).

Unfortunately for Wayne, Brandon told us Ranette is homosexual. Not that he had any chance anyway

Second, in this next book, Harmony basically crawling to wax on bended knee apologizing for handling that so very badly. Not litterally mind you, I don't expect a godlike being to actually get down on its knees and beg forgiveness from a mortal. But some serious gestures to by way of an apology. No idea what they might be exactly, but something, and something big.

He already told Wax he makes mistakes, and the nature of his powers makes it hard for him to act. Plus, we don't know the whole story.

We can blame Sazed for being over-secretive, or for choosing agents without considering how much knowledge he can share, perhaps even say he is an incompetent god(he only had a few centuries to learn), but it is too soon to assume he isn't a good person like he was before Ascending.

[Galavantes Forescout]

Removed my previous post as it was potentially too spoilery. 

 

Some shards are better at future-sight than others. Harmony hasn't shown much skill in that regard as of yet, but he is rather young as gods go. Another shard described it as trying to look through layers of shattered glass. The further ahead you look the more fragmented it becomes.

 

There are some intricacies to the power that Harmony holds. Without giving away too much, he is not as free to act as you would traditionally expect from a god, and he is....influenced, in a way. I think that what he did here is indeed "messed up" in a literal sense, meaning that despite Harmony being overall a benign force, he can't be entirely trusted to accomplish things in the most gentle ways.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Galavantes

[mattig89ch Cobalt Guard]

Don't worry about spoiling the first three books.  If you've ever been simply not interested in a piece of media (book, movie, tv show, video game) that describes the first three novels from my point of view pretty well.

 

I may wind up going through them at some future point, but I'm honestly not going to be doing it any time soon as there are other books I am very interested in.  I could recommend a few novel series to folks around here, but thats a bit off topic.

 

That said, I had no idea the writer actually announced the next book in the series already!  I just looked up morning bands, and i'm pratically jumping up and down in excitement because I devoured Shadows of self over the weekend (bought it friday, finished it last night).  No need to wait years for the next book, as I am currently doing with some other series.

 

I'd only call Harmony a bad god if he did that on purpose, for fun and giggles.  Or if he started acting like Q from the Next Generation.  But knowing what was coming, and not prepping Wax for it in some way, or coming clean about what he'd face is...well, its a no no.

 

Though, I freely admit, that this is an ants perspective relative to a human.

[luminos Noble-Blooded]

My take on Harmony is that he's just a dude.  In the original trilogy, he was a Terrisman (Sazed) who gained the powers of Harmony towards the end, when the world was being destroyed, and he was able to use the ridiculous amounts of power he gained to stop that from happening.  He is a nice, intelligent guy.  But he isn't God, and is not equipped to handle the power he has appropriately.  Furthermore, the fact that his power makes him seem godlike to normal folk means that he doesn't really have any peers, doesn't have anyone that can give him candid feedback or speak to him like an equal.  So he has a real issue with both being isolated and having a degree of power that goes beyond what even a very moral person should be entrusted with.

 

Also, upvotes for being new and posting an interesting topic.

[mattig89ch Cobalt Guard]

Even still though, you'd think someone would recognize that messing with someones emotions like that, then not coming clean, then sending that person up against their loved one, and only then owning up to the mistake would just be a common sense sort of no no.  It may have been nessisary, but it could have been handled so much better.

 

Unless all those powers he gained made him unable to understand others emotions and empathize with them (I belive thats autistic?) or something.

Edited November 24, 2015 by mattig89ch

[natc Mistborn]

It does happen to Shards eventually, depending on what Shard they are and how long they've possessed the power. For example, Ruin was reportedly a very nice and generous human, but Ruin as we knew him was singlemindedly driven towards the destruction of the world as we knew it. Sometimes their personality already fits, and the changes aren't as serious, but they always happen.

Harmony is being slowly driven in two opposite directions, hence his general uselessness. It's unknown what the end result will be. But he, well . . . he was never really the type that actually had to make plans. Spontaneous acts of bravery and generally being nice and encouraging, maybe. But the group had much better people to do planning. Without knowing what other avenues he has tried and how far his future sight goes (his two powers varied drastically in this department) he might have run out of sure-fire options for success. He has millions to worry about, it's probably already starting to go from "people" to a statistic.

[TwelfthOfSnackTime House Lord]

Basically Harmony had to choose between emotionally scarring Wax and a bloody revolution/civil war. Plus we have no way of knowing what will happen when the Northern Scadrians meet the Southern. A world war after a revolution/civil war would not end well for our Northern friends. If I was given that choice I'd screw Wax over too. 

[Kaymyth Sliver]

That said, I had no idea the writer actually announced the next book in the series already!  I just looked up morning bands, and i'm pratically jumping up and down in excitement because I devoured Shadows of self over the weekend (bought it friday, finished it last night).  No need to wait years for the next book, as I am currently doing with some other series.

 

He actually wrote the two books concurrently and then told us about it afterwards.  As the esteemable Mr. Sanderson put it, "I was having trouble getting back into writing Shadows of Self, so I wrote its sequel to get me warmed up." 

[mattig89ch Cobalt Guard]

Basically Harmony had to choose between emotionally scarring Wax and a bloody revolution/civil war. Plus we have no way of knowing what will happen when the Northern Scadrians meet the Southern. A world war after a revolution/civil war would not end well for our Northern friends. If I was given that choice I'd screw Wax over too. 

See I have no idea what your talking about there.  Theres a war coming?  Also, the city is considered in the north somewhere?

 

With that knowledge....I guess I can see why Harmony would screw over a single guy to save a city.  Though I felt like it was heavily implied that Harmony would be attempting to use Wax more then once.  After this, do we think he'd actually help Harmony again?

 

In his shoes, I think i'd try to act against Harmony.

[TwelfthOfSnackTime House Lord]

See I have no idea what your talking about there.  Theres a war coming?  Also, the city is considered in the north somewhere?

 

With that knowledge....I guess I can see why Harmony would screw over a single guy to save a city.  Though I felt like it was heavily implied that Harmony would be attempting to use Wax more then once.  After this, do we think he'd actually help Harmony again?

 

In his shoes, I think i'd try to act against Harmony.

 

 

We don't know if there is a war coming. But we do know that another group survived the Catecendre (sp?) from the southern pole. In the original trilogy life can only be found on the poles of the planet and there were two separate groups. We know absolutely nothing about the southern group except that they don't really have allomancers but figured out how to use allomancy in machines.

The war I referred too was just a theory that I have that when they finally come into contact there will be a war between them.