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Why can't you sense Feruchemy with Bronze?


WayneSpren

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I was wondering, if Bronze senses Investiture, why did it never sense anyone's Feruchemy? Is the Seeking specific to its own magic system?

If the Seeking can only sense Allomancy, does that mean Allomancers can't Seek Inquisitors? Then you really wouldn't be able to expect the Steel Inquisition.

If anybody can help me with this, please tell me below.

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Actually, I think it can sense Feruchemy, it's just a lot harder to do and takes practice.  Bronze, when trained to savant levels, should be able to sense any sort of Shardic investiture.  This is a popular theory to explain why Vin spooked out on Hoid.

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It has been hinted through WoB that Bronze Allomancy can sense other forms of Investiture including Feruchemy. However, no one on Scadrial knows how to do it. Think about it. Sensing Allomancy involves listening for strange pulses. Sensing Feruchemy or other magic systems likely involves its own strange sensory experience that Seekers simply don't know to look for.

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It's harder to sense because it's mainly an internal magic:

Q: Is the reason why Allomancy creates allomantic pulses visible to Seekers because it is an external magic drawing upon Preservation's power? In other words, is the reason why Feruchemy is much, much harder to detect by burning bronze because it is an internal magic?
A: Yes.
(source)

 

My speculation based on this would be because the amount of power used in Feruchemy is relatively low. (We know, for example, that Feruchemy is much more precise due to being low-power.)

 

It is, however, possible to sense. Bronze can detect any Kinetic Investiture (though what that is is up to debate - my assumption is an active use, as compared to something passive like holding Stormlight or Breath):

Someone asked Brandon about Allomantic bronze detecting Feruchemy. Brandon responded with yes, but no one on Scadrial knows how to do this (at least now). The interesting thing is that Brandon said that Allomantic bronze could theoretically detect any "Kinetic Investiture". Note that I am capitalizing Kinetic there, as Innate Investiture was. Pretty awesome to get that new term. I am assuming it is the difference between a metalmind being Invested and actually using Feruchemy, or a person having a lot of Breath and someone actually Awakening.
(source)

Edited by Moogle
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Considering that investiture is usually not closed-shard (i.e. Nightblood can use Stormlight), Bronze should be able to sense other types of investiture. Holding Stormlight, though, should be considered Kinetic because the Stormlight is always moving as it leaks out of its container. I am not sure if a sphere holing it would count, but definitely a person, as they are strengthened and the need to breathe is removed.

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Like I said, I don't think its a question of whether or not Bronze can sense other Investitures. We have a confirmation that it can. I think it is simply a question of it being communicated through some other strange sensory input that seekers simply don't know to look for. I mean, think about the pulses. These are not something you would think much of if you didn't know they meant anything.

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  • 3 years later...

Big necro here, but I felt the need to chime in.

Although I have only on the second book of era 1, so I cannot comment on anything beyond those, there is a case where a allomancer could sense the investure of a metalmind, and that was when Vin offered to try and burn one of Sazed's.

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9 hours ago, Stalin_McRally said:

Big necro here, but I felt the need to chime in.

Although I have only on the second book of era 1, so I cannot comment on anything beyond those, there is a case where a allomancer could sense the investure of a metalmind, and that was when Vin offered to try and burn one of Sazed's.

Welcome to the forum! This thread was about using bronze to sense investiture. Vin was just sensing a metal that she couldn't burn, not using bronze.

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On 11/18/2015 at 5:59 PM, Kaymyth said:

Actually, I think it can sense Feruchemy, it's just a lot harder to do and takes practice.  Bronze, when trained to savant levels, should be able to sense any sort of Shardic investiture.  This is a popular theory to explain why Vin spooked out on Hoid.

Vin spooked out on Hoid because of Kell, actually. Otherwise, I believe you are correct.

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1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Vin spooked out on Hoid because of Kell, actually. Otherwise, I believe you are correct.

Well, yes, we know that now. I wrote that comment about two months before Secret History was released. ;)

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3 hours ago, Kaymyth said:

Well, yes, we know that now. I wrote that comment about two months before Secret History was released. ;)

Ah. I didn’t realize; I guess someone necroed this thread... Not the longest one - someone on Cosmere theories resurrected a four year old thread by quoting a five year old post.. this one was about 3.5 years dead...

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57 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Ah. I didn’t realize; I guess someone necroed this thread... Not the longest one - someone on Cosmere theories resurrected a four year old thread by quoting a five year old post.. this one was about 3.5 years dead...

My pathological need to point out that I'm not an idjit saves the day!

In all seriousness, we're not terribly bothered by thread necro'ing as a general rule; sometimes new discussion on old topics is warranted. Situations like this are usually easily cleared up.

It says a lot about my recent activity that it's been months since a post of mine was quoted. I am rather looking forward to being active again; I just have to get through con season to get some daily spoons back. I let myself get talked into chairing a major milestone convention this year and thus PRESSURE. <_<

Await, good Sharders, for soon the magical unicorn mod will be roaming the Mistborn threads once again, lamenting the lack of Lost Metal to read.

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2 minutes ago, Kaymyth said:

My pathological need to point out that I'm not an idjit saves the day!

In all seriousness, we're not terribly bothered by thread necro'ing as a general rule; sometimes new discussion on old topics is warranted. Situations like this are usually easily cleared up.

It says a lot about my recent activity that it's been months since a post of mine was quoted. I am rather looking forward to being active again; I just have to get through con season to get some daily spoons back. I let myself get talked into chairing a major milestone convention this year and thus PRESSURE. <_<

Await, good Sharders, for soon the magical unicorn mod will be roaming the Mistborn threads once again, lamenting the lack of Lost Metal to read.

I’m with you - I am so desperate for the book... or any book... I’m not picky...

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Just now, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I’m with you - I am so desperate for the book... or any book... I’m not picky...

The OTHER thing I want to do this spring/summer - finally finish the final revision draft of my dang Era II fanfic. >.>

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21 minutes ago, Slowswift said:

:o

I know, I know. I swear, getting promoted to management was the worst thing ever for my writing; it's hard to make myself sit down at write when I get home when I'm just emotionally exhausted from being all supervisory all day.

But! That is also at an end! I should...probably catch up with Random Stuff and give y'all an update post, because boy howdy have things gone crazy the last 6 months.

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36 minutes ago, Kaymyth said:

I know, I know. I swear, getting promoted to management was the worst thing ever for my writing; it's hard to make myself sit down at write when I get home when I'm just emotionally exhausted from being all supervisory all day.

But! That is also at an end! I should...probably catch up with Random Stuff and give y'all an update post, because boy howdy have things gone crazy the last 6 months.

Understandable. :P 

Looking forward to it, though!

Edited by Slowswift
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/18/2015 at 4:11 PM, Moogle said:

It's harder to sense because it's mainly an internal magic:

 

My speculation based on this would be because the amount of power used in Feruchemy is relatively low. (We know, for example, that Feruchemy is much more precise due to being low-power.)

 

It is, however, possible to sense. Bronze can detect any Kinetic Investiture (though what that is is up to debate - my assumption is an active use, as compared to something passive like holding Stormlight or Breath):

Oathbringer:

Spoiler

Like how the screamers can detect kaladins use of stormlight and not shalons lightweaving , a seeker could probably do the same .

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

A friend of mine has a hypothesis that there needs to be a Connection to the magic system to sense it. So a purely Allomantic Seeker/Mistborn can only sense Allomancy but if they are a twinborn with a Feruchemy Connection then they would be able to sense Feruchemy. I personally like that idea myself.

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13 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

A friend of mine has a hypothesis that there needs to be a Connection to the magic system to sense it. So a purely Allomantic Seeker/Mistborn can only sense Allomancy but if they are a twinborn with a Feruchemy Connection then they would be able to sense Feruchemy. I personally like that idea myself.

Unfortunately, we've been told that it's because of the internal nature of Feruchemy. 

Quote

drughat

Is the reason why Allomancy creates allomantic pulses visible to Seekers because it is an external magic drawing upon Preservation's power? In other words, is the reason why Feruchemy is much, much harder to detect by burning bronze because it is an internal magic?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

/r/books AMA 2015 (May 25, 2015)

Feruchemy is just quieter because of its nature. Whereas allomancy has that power pouring into someone from somewhere else. 

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On 5/11/2019 at 1:46 PM, BookishOcelot said:

My thought is that Feruchemy can't be sensed because it is an end-neutral magic, meaning energy is neither gained nor lost. With allomancy, energy is gained through burning metals. With hemalurgy, energy is lost in the process of spiking. 

Despite being classified as an end-neutral system, there actually is some loss associated with Feruchemy when you tap at higher rates.  

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On 5/10/2019 at 5:20 PM, StanLemon said:

A friend of mine has a hypothesis that there needs to be a Connection to the magic system to sense it. So a purely Allomantic Seeker/Mistborn can only sense Allomancy but if they are a twinborn with a Feruchemy Connection then they would be able to sense Feruchemy. I personally like that idea myself.

Aside from what @Calderis posted, we also know that A-Bronze can sense other magic systems so that idea doesn't really hold up. Also, Inquisitors with spikes granting feruchemical powers and thus having a connection to that magic system (and according to Sazed all of them had F-Gold) would notice very quickly that they could sense feruchemy and would have figured out the trick to why they could sense it but a normal Seeker couldn't.

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