Oudeis

Red and Gold

46 posts in this topic

First, what is the metallic symbol at the top of the epilogue? I can't find it anywhere.

From Miles's execution:

One day, the men of gold and red, bearers of the final metal, will come to you."

And earlier, upon finding a box of Miles's favorite cigars:

She looked over the box. The top was painted gold and red, with the brand splayed across in large letters.

Clearly, he was going mad and was just asking for one last cigar, in a crazy and convoluted way. =D

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I don't have a copy :( I really need to get one.

 

Are you able to post an image of said symbol?

 

Also, yes, clearly a cigar XD

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Erm... visiting my parents, on their 13-year-old CPU. And Christmas is big in our house, so time is limited between all the traditions, activities, responsibilities and children to play with. I will post it as soon as I can, but if anyone else can that'd be swell.

Also can anyone link me to that numbers discussion people were using? Though I can prolly just search for "big-endian"...

Edit: did that work?

post-3132-0-93237900-1387709366_thumb.jp

Edited by Darnam
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Edited by Ete'ni
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It's very similar. Is it just a stylized difference? I can only find one picture of the symbol for lerasium, and it's not quite the same thing. Maybe it's like the difference betweeen "a" and "A"?

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Edited by Ete'ni
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I suspect it's simply a symbol that means something numerical, like "this is the end", the way the symbol for tin appears to mean "3", despite chapter 3 not specifically seeming to have anything to do with tin. But who knows?

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Edited by Ete'ni
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Harmony's metal, maybe.?

Also, the men in red and gold are obviously representatives of a cigar company on the southern continent. And that the southerners discovered a fourth metallic art that requires smoking cigars that have metal shavings in them.

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Edited by Ete'ni
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Thanks for posting the image.

 

Sorry to be a party pooper but that is definitely lerasium. In the alloy of law steel alphabet the symbol is practically identical, the only difference is that the spikes continue margnially further in the book version.

 

Here is an image of the lerasium symbols from the 4 different steel alphabets in chronological order

post-6879-0-72614700-1387745787_thumb.pn

The final one is the alloy of law one. Lerasium is 'a' in Steel alphabet.

 

Edit: Attached a png so it was easier to look at :)

lerasium evolution.bmp

Edited by lord Claincy Ffnord
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Oooo thank you. I went to IsaacStewart.com and looked at his various alphabets, but I checked the first three books, I didn't notice the one for Alloy of Law (and my copy of the book is an eBook, I didn't get it with the book). Cool!

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Edited by Ete'ni
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atium and lerasium weren't included in AoL steel alphabet tables.

What table are you using?

 

The one I use has the full 23 just like all the previous ones.

post-6879-0-25616300-1387833883_thumb.pn

It is relatively easy to see the evolution from the final empire alphabet's lerasium to alloy of law's lerasium. The only major difference other than the different style of writing used in AoL is that the outer curve was extended to surround the inner.

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So... What do those four other symbols represent? Are they Allomantic metals too, just undiscovered ones? Or are they just symbols in general. Too bad it's Lerasium... Kinda thought it might be the 'Final Metal' Miles talks about...  -_-

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So... What do those four other symbols represent? Are they Allomantic metals too, just undiscovered ones? Or are they just symbols in general. Too bad it's Lerasium... Kinda thought it might be the 'Final Metal' Miles talks about...  -_-

 

We don't know where they came from. It's a big mystery though Brandon has confirmed that there are no more base metals. There would be other shard metals if they came to Scadrial but I highly doubt that they are based off that. One theory is that they are for pther alloys which we don't know about yet.

 

[quoting my own observations here]

 

There has been some occasional speculation on what the last 4 symbols are. Brandon has stated that we know all of the base metals however there could possibly be alloys of the base metals that we are unaware of. That is very uncertain though. It is also possible that they represent alloys of Atium or Lerasium though personally I do not think this is the case because:

-They appear to be 2 pairs, with the dot locations indicating a pull/push pair.

-They bear almost no resemblance to atium or lerasium. Most of the alloys bear some resemblance to the symbol of the base metal.

 

So basically we are all fairly clueless. I would be interested to hear any theories you come up with :)

 

Edit:

I went and looked at the chart of symbols from Hero of ages. As the symbols from mistborn 1 era were derived from these I was hoping that the older symbols, being closer to the origins of the language, might hold more clues, and I actually found something interesting!

 

It may be nothing, but in this older script each of the unknown symbols correlates very closely to one of the other metals.

 

(I'm going to call the parts that jut out spikes for now, as they are what became the spikes in the more modern texts.)

 

19 Add an extra "spike" to 19 and you have Zinc.

20 Add an extra "spike" to 20 and remove a small one and you get Aluminium.

21 This is the most uncertain. You can get Zinc with 1 remove and 1 add or Duralumin if you add 3.

22 Add an extra "spike"/curve/thing to get Gold.

 

It could be nothing, but there is more similarity than I expected.

 

Here's the chart for reference.

attachicon.gifmb3 symbols.jpg

From this thread: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/1905-translation-of-the-cover-page-of-the-treatise-metallurgic/page-4

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It's possible that the symbols aren't related to any metal at all; these symbols represent the metals but unless I'm mistaken, they're also used for sounds (letters) and numbers. It's possible they needed more sounds, didn't have any more metals to correlate, so they're just symbols without an associated metal.

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It's possible that the symbols aren't related to any metal at all; these symbols represent the metals but unless I'm mistaken, they're also used for sounds (letters) and numbers. It's possible they needed more sounds, didn't have any more metals to correlate, so they're just symbols without an associated metal.

That is certainly possible and the easiest explanation. It's just boring :( Although even in that case there pretty much has to be some form of inspiration for the letters so they would probably mean something however unimportant.

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I suppose that makes sense. They could be alloys where you combine two base metals, as unlikely as that may seem...

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I suppose that makes sense. They could be alloys where you combine two base metals, as unlikely as that may seem...

 

A lot of the alloys are "alloys where you combine two base metals". Duralumin is aluminum and copper. Brass is zinc and copper. Pewter is tin and copper. Bronze is copper and tin. Steel is iron with carbon, which isn't a metal, and electrum is gold with silver, which isn't allomantically active on its own and, you guessed it, copper. Nicrosil is chromium with nickel. Bendalloy is bismuth, cadmium, tin, and lead; it's own base metal, another base metal, and two non-allomantically active metals.

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A lot of the alloys are "alloys where you combine two base metals". Duralumin is aluminum and copper. Brass is zinc and copper. Pewter is tin and copper. Bronze is copper and tin. Steel is iron with carbon, which isn't a metal, and electrum is gold with silver, which isn't allomantically active on its own and, you guessed it, copper. Nicrosil is chromium with nickel. Bendalloy is bismuth, cadmium, tin, and lead; it's own base metal, another base metal, and two non-allomantically active metals.

You are wrong on some metals, Darnam:

Pewter has no copper in it (allomantic alloy):

 

Allomancer’s pewter, however, is an alloy of ninety-one percent tin, nine percent lead.

Electrum is pure gold+silver:

 

My researchers have discovered that mixing an alloy of forty-five percent gold and fifty-five percent silver creates a new Allomantic metal

Nicrosil has Silicon in it: it is in the name (Nickel-cromium-silicon):

 

Nicrosil is a nickel alloy containing 14.4% chromium, 1.4% silicon, and 0.1% magnesium.

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Curse you, wikipedia...

 

My point remains that there are metals that are mixes of base metals.

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Haha, I suppose you are right. I'm definitely no metallurgist, and have a tendency to say what I think as I think it. :P

 

Which brings me to another idea!! Perhaps those symbols are the 'Final Metal' and it's alloys. Haha, fact is, I have no clue.  :angry:

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If they actually are metals, then they've got to be alloys of either lerasium, atium, or both. I doubt Sanderson is going to pull the "allomantic table is entirely wrong as you know it" card again, and adding more basic metals would ruin all the symmetry and order in the system. That said, my hunch is that they're just numbers, with no actual connection to a metal.

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You're probably right on that. 16 is a consistent number in the Cosmere- that's how many basic metals we have. It'll stay that way. I think it would be odd to have allomantic symbols unconnected to metal... It's possible they are symbols to metals that are allomantically worthless, like Silver, or Platinum, etc. As a slight sidetrack, is it possible that those metals have Hemalurgic/Feruchemical abilities?

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