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Will Dalinar learn how Kaladin became a slave, in WOR?


eveorjoy

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Ever since Kaladin won his freedom in book one, I have fantasized about how he might get justice, or vengeance, against Amaram. Some members on other threads have suggested Dalinar will help Kaladin punish Amaram.

 

Dalinar, if he survives long enough, will learn what happened, but when and how? Will it even be in WOR, or a later book? What do you think? 

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I am not sure Kaladin will ever get vengeance on Amaram...

 

I think that Kaladin will have to let his hatred and lust for vengeance go as part of his journey to Radianthood.

 

I think Amaram will get some comeuppance, just not necessarily from Kaladin.

 

If I had to speculate, I would say that Amaram dies in battle saving someone's life and is redeemed, or is killed by his own hubris, or something.

 

As for Dalinar, the only way he could find out is by Amaram or Kaladin telling him and I can't see that happening.

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The information is definitely going to come out. I'm interested in Dalinar's reaction to it; from the flashbacks, I got the impression Amaram was basically a decent guy who had a moment of weakness.

I'm not excusing his behaviour, but I don't subscribe to the Amaram hate. I can see him being redeemed at some point in the series.

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I see no reason why Amaram has to be redeemed! Sucks to be Kaladin, but the Ghostbloods were trying to kill Amaram and Amaram and Dalinar are actually allies (or are going to be). I imagine he had very good reasons for doing what he did.

 

He was guilty enough that he had to have decent reasons for doing what he did. He really didn't strike me as a terrible person, and I think his reputation for honor was not undeserved. If nothing else, he didn't kill Kaladin when it would have been safer to do so.

Edited by Moogle
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I see no reason why Amaram has to be redeemed! Sucks to be Kaladin, but the Ghostbloods were trying to kill Amaram and Amaram and Dalinar are actually allies (or are going to be). I imagine he had very good reasons for doing what he did.

 

He was guilty enough that he had to have decent reasons for doing what he did. He really didn't strike me as a terrible person, and I think his reputation for honor was not undeserved. If nothing else, he didn't kill Kaladin when it would have been safer to do so.

 

Good point about not killing Kalalin. But sell him as a slave,what in the great majority of the cases end in dead or slavery for a life isn't really that better.

 

His have a conscious, but this didn't absolve him, to me make everthing worse. If you really knew that you ar doing are a evil thing, and even so you do it this say a lot about your principles.

 

I don't see revenge here, Kaladin have all the right, and in my oppinion, also the duty to see justice made. What must considered is only the metod he will use, two evils don't make one right (don't know the right saying in english,sorry =))

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I see no reason why Amaram has to be redeemed! Sucks to be Kaladin, but the Ghostbloods were trying to kill Amaram and Amaram and Dalinar are actually allies (or are going to be). I imagine he had very good reasons for doing what he did.

 

He was guilty enough that he had to have decent reasons for doing what he did. He really didn't strike me as a terrible person, and I think his reputation for honor was not undeserved. If nothing else, he didn't kill Kaladin when it would have been safer to do so.

Amaram's actions are completely counter to the first ideal of the KR. Amaram believes that his actions serve the greater good and that people will be saved as a result of his actions.

But as the book itself says: (paraphrasing) All men die, it is not justified to kill 1 innocent to save 10 others.

Therefore Amaram's actions (killing Kaladin's men and branding Kaladin himself for some perceived greater good) are not justified and not honourable.

Also remember however, that Amaram was 'convinced' of his course of action by Restares who we still have not encountered.

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Amaram's actions are completely counter to the first ideal of the KR. Amaram believes that his actions serve the greater good and that people will be saved as a result of his actions.

 

And how do you know this isn't true? I'm not trying to argue that Amaram's betrayal of Kaladin wasn't terrible for Kaladin, but Amaram has the Shards now. He may very well have saved hundreds of lives. I am withholding judgement of Amaram until we learn what he has been doing for the past 2 years and why he did what he did.

 

 

But as the book itself says: (paraphrasing) All men die, it is not justified to kill 1 innocent to save 10 others.

Therefore Amaram's actions (killing Kaladin's men and branding Kaladin himself for some perceived greater good) are not justified and not honourable.

 

Just because the Radiants believed something doesn't make it true. The Radiants, mind you, sucked at their job. 9/10 people killed every Desolation. This might be pre-Radiants, but it doesn't sound like things improved after them. The Radiants proceeded to give their dangerous killing tools to common men and let them run amok, killing things. I'll wait for the reasons behind the Recreance, but I'm not terribly impressed with their track record.

 

I'm also not concerned with what's 'honorable'. Szeth certainly doesn't make me think highly of being honorable. I care about people being saved and people being happy, and if Amaram is saving lives, then I am not about to condemn him. We don't know enough!

 

 

Also remember however, that Amaram was 'convinced' of his course of action by Restares who we still have not encountered.

 

This is a good point. We don't have enough information here.

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And how do you know this isn't true? I'm not trying to argue that Amaram's betrayal of Kaladin wasn't terrible for Kaladin, but Amaram has the Shards now. He may very well have saved hundreds of lives. I am withholding judgement of Amaram until we learn what he has been doing for the past 2 years and why he did what he did.

 

 

Just because the Radiants believed something doesn't make it true. The Radiants, mind you, sucked at their job. 9/10 people killed every Desolation. This might be pre-Radiants, but it doesn't sound like things improved after them. The Radiants proceeded to give their dangerous killing tools to common men and let them run amok, killing things. I'll wait for the reasons behind the Recreance, but I'm not terribly impressed with their track record.

 

I'm also not concerned with what's 'honorable'. Szeth certainly doesn't make me think highly of being honorable. I care about people being saved and people being happy, and if Amaram is saving lives, then I am not about to condemn him. We don't know enough!

 

 

This is a good point. We don't have enough information here.

 

I agree we shouldn't hold Amaram to the standard of the Knights Radiant. Amaram maybe as honorable a man you will find among lighteyes in the Roshar's current state. Which makes Kaladin's hatred for lighteyes make sense. I wouldn't want a man who can kill so easily for what he considers the greater good as a leader. I certainly hope this isn't common among the worldleaders of our world.

 

However, Amaram is most likely a better man than Kaladin perceives. I'm sure he is much better than Sadeas and most of the High Princes.

 

Still the Standards of the Knights Radiant are going to become the standard to measure the heroes by as the story goes on. Amaram's way of thinking helps Odium win. Notice Kaladin became more powerful after he spoke the second ideal of the Knights Radiant. 

 

Amaram thinks his methods will save the world from the Voidbringers, but he will fail because of his methods, even if they were for the right reasons. 

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Amaram serves under Sadeas so most likely his presence in the warcamps will not have too much criendly interaction with anyone from Dalinar's camp including Kaladin. I think that Amaram will be given a chance to redeem himself if nobody from Kaladin's bridge crew or Adolin takes matters into their own hands after hearing Kaladin's story and just kills him themselves.

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The 9/10 dead is pre-Radiants.

 

A better piece of evidence to consider (regarding their track record) is that 9/10 of the Heralds survived with the Radiants present. I get the impression from the prologue that usually most, if not all, of the Heralds died in a desolation prior to the creation of the Knights Radiant.

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Amaram serves under Sadeas so most likely his presence in the warcamps will not have too much criendly interaction with anyone from Dalinar's camp including Kaladin. I think that Amaram will be given a chance to redeem himself if nobody from Kaladin's bridge crew or Adolin takes matters into their own hands after hearing Kaladin's story and just kills him themselves.

 

You assume Adolin would believe Kaladin. I got the impression from Dalinar's last conversation with Kaladin in WOK that Adolin is really annoyed with the new Darkeyed Captain.

 

Dalinar might believe Kaladin, but I'm not sure Adolin would believe his story.

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And how do you know this isn't true? ...

Just because the Radiants believed something doesn't make it true. The Radiants, mind you, sucked at their job. 9/10 people killed every Desolation. This might be pre-Radiants, but it doesn't sound like things improved after them. The Radiants proceeded to give their dangerous killing tools to common men and let them run amok, killing things. I'll wait for the reasons behind the Recreance, but I'm not terribly impressed with their track record.

 

... We don't know enough!

 

This is a good point. We don't have enough information here.

The fact that the Silver Kingdoms were stable is a pretty strong argument in favor of the Knights, as is the Starfalls interlude and Tanavast's approval.  Pre-Nohadon, the Desolation was preceded by a large conflict with some surgebinder named Alakavish that made it worse and entire countries were wiped out.  In the Radiant era, there were apparently 10 stable countries that didn't fight each other, protected by the Radiants. 

 

Perhaps he will be dueled by a non-Shard bearer?  remember BS does not drop a hint unless he tends to use it.  From WoK he says the Kings shards are available for dueling....

Welcome! Good catch! Upvote! 

Wildly speculating, Kaladin could borrow the King's Shards to fight Amaram.  Adolin could help him practice and they might start to get along (after doing some unnecessary roughness). 

 

The 9/10 dead is pre-Radiants.

 

A better piece of evidence to consider (regarding their track record) is that 9/10 of the Heralds survived with the Radiants present. I get the impression from the prologue that usually most, if not all, of the Heralds died in a desolation prior to the creation of the Knights Radiant.

What Cortez said.  Although, Kelek was surprised at the survival rate, so it may not have been "lucky", there might have been shananigans going on behind the scenes.  Maybe Odium realized the Heralds were about to crack and increased their survival chances. 

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The fact that the Silver Kingdoms were stable is a pretty strong argument in favor of the Knights, as is the Starfalls interlude and Tanavast's approval.  Pre-Nohadon, the Desolation was preceded by a large conflict with some surgebinder named Alakavish that made it worse and entire countries were wiped out.  In the Radiant era, there were apparently 10 stable countries that didn't fight each other, protected by the Radiants. 

 

Welcome! Good catch! Upvote! 

Wildly speculating, Kaladin could borrow the King's Shards to fight Amaram.  Adolin could help him practice and they might start to get along (after doing some unnecessary roughness). 

 

What Cortez said.  Although, Kelek was surprised at the survival rate, so it may not have been "lucky", there might have been shananigans going on behind the scenes.  Maybe Odium realized the Heralds were about to crack and increased their survival chances. 

 

Kaladin wouldn't like use a shardplate or blade, this was the root of the problem fist place, and Sly wound't like either. So I kind disagree with the Duel theory (but I would love see Kaladin fighting Amaram, I dream that Kaladin taked Amaram in secret in a one-one fight, with only his man as witness and in the fight he use his power that would be awesome, but unlikely).

 

 

Odium taking easy to prepare the situation for the heralds desertion, well that would be very crafty I liked upvote for you=)

Edited by Natans
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The information is definitely going to come out. I'm interested in Dalinar's reaction to it; from the flashbacks, I got the impression Amaram was basically a decent guy who had a moment of weakness.

I'm not excusing his behaviour, but I don't subscribe to the Amaram hate. I can see him being redeemed at some point in the series.

 

I don't know if I agree that Amaram is a decent guy who had a moment of weakness, but I do understand the situation was more complex than people are giving it credit for. Amaram offered Kaladin the Shards as was proper and Kaladin refused them. I believe that Amaram was at a loss and sought the council of Restares. Restares advised Amaram on the course of action he should follow. Amaram was still conflicted about following that course and offered Kaladin another chance to claim the Shards. When Kaladin refused once more, and then tried to have them given to one of his men, it helped Amaram internally justify using the methods suggested by Restares. This doesn't exonerate Amaram, but in context, I wouldn't say he was evil, just another human who, at the suggestion of another, put his own selfish desires above what he knew was right.

 

On the other hand, if Kaladin continued to serve under Amaram as a Shardbearer and became a Radiant, I'm fairly certain that due to Kaladins honor code, Sadeas would have had him killed eventually.

 

And how do you know this isn't true? I'm not trying to argue that Amaram's betrayal of Kaladin wasn't terrible for Kaladin, but Amaram has the Shards now. He may very well have saved hundreds of lives. I am withholding judgement of Amaram until we learn what he has been doing for the past 2 years and why he did what he did.

 

I don't believe that Amarams actions since taking the Shards have any bearing at all in regards to the first ideal. His actions in claiming the Shards were counter to the first ideal irregardless of actions that may have occurred as a result of taking the Shards. Why he did what he did may have some impact, but it is fairly clear that he chose to take a path that was not honorable in accordance with The Way of Kings or the first ideal of the Knights Radiant. Your personal opinion on the value of those ideals is not relevant when comparing actions against a written established honor code as the first ideal, and The Way of Kings establishes.

 

You assume Adolin would believe Kaladin. I got the impression from Dalinar's last conversation with Kaladin in WOK that Adolin is really annoyed with the new Darkeyed Captain.

 

Dalinar might believe Kaladin, but I'm not sure Adolin would believe his story.

 

I can be annoyed at someone and still respect their capabilities. Regardless of how Adolin feels about Kaladin on a personal level, Adolin isn't a fool. He also knows for a fact that this very same darkeyed captain saved his life and the lives of his men from certain death.

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Kaladin wouldn't like use a shardplate or blade, this as the root of the problem fist place, and Sly wound't like either. So I kind disagree with the Duel theory (but I would love see Kaladin fighting Amaram, I dream would Kaladin take Amaram in secret in a one-one fight, with only his man as witness and in the fight he use his power that would be awesome, but unlikely).

 

 

Odium taking easy to prepare the situation for the heralds desertion, well that would be very crafty I liked upvote for you=)

Not even a theory.  Just a wild speculation.  A fantasy, if you will.  Kaladin had a problem with that specific blade, which had just been used to kill his men, not all Shardblades.  Syl wouldn't like it, but if it was temporary, she might deal or at least we might learn what her problem is with them.  It doesn't seem impossible to me, but it doesn't seem likely either. 

 

The important thing to me was Scrutiny's catch on the dueling thing.  I feel sure that it will come up somehow.  

 

And thanks :) .

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I can be annoyed at someone and still respect their capabilities. Regardless of how Adolin feels about Kaladin on a personal level, Adolin isn't a fool. He also knows for a fact that this very same darkeyed captain saved his life and the lives of his men from certain death.

 

I'm sure he respects his capabilities, that is the reason he let Kaladin go after Dalinar in the first place. He, however, was still annoyed that Kaladin stood above his station and ordered him to retreat.

 

page 983 Dalinar speaking to Kaladin

 

"My son still feels bitter about the way your... conversation went with him."

 

He resents Kaladin's actions and often other characters describe Kaladin carrying himself like a brightlord. Until he gets to know Kaladin better, he may assume Kaladin claiming he won shards is all boast. Now after he gets to know Kaladin he might believe him. But Adolin is bash and quick to judgement. I like him and his judgements are not always wrong. He had Sadeas pegged. Still, he can hold a grudge and I think it will take sometime before he trusts Kaladin.

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I'm sure he respects his capabilities, that is the reason he let Kaladin go after Dalinar in the first place. He, however, was still annoyed that Kaladin stood above his station and ordered him to retreat.

 

page 983 Dalinar speaking to Kaladin

 

He resents Kaladin's actions and often other characters describe Kaladin carrying himself like a brightlord. Until he gets to know Kaladin better, he may assume Kaladin claiming he won shards is all boast. Now after he gets to know Kaladin he might believe him. But Adolin is bash and quick to judgement. I like him and his judgements are not always wrong. He had Sadeas pegged. Still, he can hold a grudge and I think it will take sometime before he trusts Kaladin.

 

I think that Adolin antagonism of Kaladin will be used to make Kal aware of the Kholin in WOR, Kaladin mistrust much be feed, I like the theory that they will rough up which other until their become friends, kind like breaked Moash, but until them I see a conflict here.

and

 

In WOR chapter 2 he stinged Adolin, "If Dalinar died you wanna bet how much time would take to his sucessor - aka Adolin- to sell us back do Sadeas. Sure Kaladin don't know Adolin but in even Wok the cortesean case kind putting both at odds with other

 

I don't have anything against Adolin but some conflict must occur for the good of plot. Something tell me that Renarin will bond with Kaladin he kind remember Tien =)

Edited by Natans
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I think that Adolin antagonism of Kaladin will be used to make Kal aware of the Kholin in WOR, Kaladin mistrust much be feed, I like the theory that they will rough up which other until their become friends, kind like breaked Moash, but until them I see a conflict here.

and

 

In WOR chapter 2 he stinged Adolin, "If Dalinar died you wanna bet how much time would take to his sucessor - aka Adolin- to sell us back do Sadeas. Sure Kaladin don't know Adolin but in even Wok the cortesean case kind putting both at odds with other

 

I don't have nothing against Adolin but some conflict must occur for the good of plot. Something tell that Renarin will bond witj Kaladin he kind remember Tien =)

 

I agree. In fact much of how Kaladin reacts in that spoiler tells me how little he trusts anyone, including Dalinar. Of course his thoughts and actions at the end of WOK suggest the same thing. It's the reason I don't think he will tell Dalinar about Amaram's betrayal, unless they become really close. He hasn't even told Teft and that is the only person he as come close to opening up to.

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Amaram's actions are completely counter to the first ideal of the KR. Amaram believes that his actions serve the greater good and that people will be saved as a result of his actions.

But as the book itself says: (paraphrasing) All men die, it is not justified to kill 1 innocent to save 10 others.

Therefore Amaram's actions (killing Kaladin's men and branding Kaladin himself for some perceived greater good) are not justified and not honourable.

Also remember however, that Amaram was 'convinced' of his course of action by Restares who we still have not encountered.

Honor is what you want in a friend, someone you can confine in and know that they can be trusted. A leader is someone entirely different, a person who won't let sentimentals affect his decisions and can be trusted to make the hard decisions when necessary. An honorable person cares about the one, while a true leader's ultimate priority is the whole. You don't have to like a leader, but you can trust him with the fate of the world, and still sleep soundly at night and know that there will be a tomorrow.

The Ideals of the KR is noble creed and ought to be respected, but sometimes, that won't work. If you cannot sacrificed one innocent to save ten, then could you sacrifice one to save a hundred? A thousand? A million? Most people will choose to sacrifice the one for the million at least, KR or not. But what of a hundred to a thousand? A million to a billion?

Here's another example. Would you sacrifice an entire army just for the slim chance that everyone on your side can survive? Or would you splinter off a thousand to hold off the enemy and buy precious time for the rest of the nine to reach safety? Know this. This is your only army. If you lose it, you lose the war. What is your decision?

I don't like Amaram, but that's mainly because I know that his decision is wrong.  He killed Kaladin's squad and doomed Kaladin himself to slavery to keep his thief of the shards a secret. He justify that their sacrifice will help him save the greater whole, but I know that's not true. Kaladin is a KR, which means he would be more likely to save more people than Amaram ever would, who is just a shardbearer. In fact, in WoK alone, he saved over a thousand lives, over three thousand if you count Dalinar's army. In one way or another, the truth that Amaram tried so hard to cover up will be revealed, which would render the sacrifice of Kaladin's men ultimately meaingless. Things would have likely been better if Amaram never stole the shards in the first place and accepted Kaladin's decision.

I have no problem Amaram as a character. I think I am the type of person who would kill an innocent man to save ten, but Amaram here killed innocents in hopes that he would go on to save a thousand later, which I know won't happen. I also know that no matter how many people Amaram saves, Kaladin will always have him beat by a large margin. That's where all my hate comes from. You could say I have some innate prejudice against him as a reader. But if Amaram is revealed to be the true protagonist of the story and the ultimate savior of the world, if it turns out that his thief of the shards aided him to that task, then his actions would make sense and all my hate will just... disappear.

 

My point is this, if it came down to a choice between Amaram's leadership and someone who blindly follows the ideals of KR, I'm with Amaram all the way.

Edited by mrwerd
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@mrwerd, on the grand scheme of things, Amaram's choice was the good one. If Kaladin would have kept the shards, he would have saved as many lives as Amaram did. Soldier with shards, in Amaram's army. He would have done what Amaram ordered. What Amaram did these 2 years, Kaladon would have done. Same shards, different person.

With Kaladon a shardbearer - with a Blade - Syl would not have bonded him (she stays away from Blades). He would not be now on the path of becoming a KR. He would not have saved all those lives.

Thus, you see, Amaram's choice was the best. Amaram IS responsible for all those Kaladin saved. Without him, Kaladin would not have saved them. Add those that Amaram himself saves with the shards, minus those he killed, and per total Amaram I think ends up saving more people than Kaladin.

Edited by marianmi
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My point is this, if it came down to a choice between Amaram's leadership and someone who blindly follows the ideals of KR, I'm with Amaram all the way.

 

So you prefer Amaram over Dalinar?

 

Also, where did Amaram fail, aside from killing men who just saved him? He didn't trust his men.Had he asked Kaladin, he would have given him the shards.

 

Yes there are times where there is no other choice, however this was not one of them. 

 

on the grand scheme of things, Amaram's choice was the good one. If Kaladin would have kept the shards, he would have saved as many lives as Amaram did. Soldier with shards, in Amaram's army. He would have done what Amaram ordered. What Amaram did these 2 years, Kaladon would have done. Same shards, different person.

With Kaladon a shardbearer - with a Blade - Syl would not have bonded him (she stays away from Blades). He would not be now on the path of becoming a KR. He would not have saved all those lives.

Thus, you see, Amaram's choice was the best. Amaram IS responsible for all those Kaladin saved. Without him, Kaladin would not have saved them. Add those that Amaram himself saves with the shards, minus those he killed, and per total Amaram I think ends up saving more people than Kaladin.

 

This is the very line of thinking from some of my favorite villains. Kaladin did his heroic acts in spite of what Amaram did to him, not because of what he did.

 

Also, Kaladin would have given him the shards. I don't believe Amaram is completely evil, and he was correct that he could used the shards better than Kaladin or any of his men. However, he pursued his logical choice the worst way possible.

Edited by eveorjoy
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@mrwerd, on the grand scheme of things, Amaram's choice was the good one. If Kaladin would have kept the shards, he would have saved as many lives as Amaram did. Soldier with shards, in Amaram's army. He would have done what Amaram ordered. What Amaram did these 2 years, Kaladon would have done. Same shards, different person.

With Kaladon a shardbearer - with a Blade - Syl would not have bonded him (she stays away from Blades). He would not be now on the path of becoming a KR. He would not have saved all those lives.

Thus, you see, Amaram's choice was the best. Amaram IS responsible for all those Kaladin saved. Without him, Kaladin would not have saved them. Add those that Amaram himself saves with the shards, minus those he killed, and per total Amaram I think ends up saving more people than Kaladin.

Nah, Kaladin didn't want the shards. When he had an opportunity to pick it up, he walked away, which attracted Sly's interest/favor. Whether Amaram betrayed Kaladin or not, it seems he was destined to be a KR. I suppose his time as a slave have humbled him a bit, but it also made him prejudice against lighteyes. I would call him a racist now... only in this case, it's not skin color, but eye color.

 

So you prefer Amaram over Dalinar?

 

Also, where did Amaram fail, aside from killing men who just saved him? He didn't trust his men.Had he asked Kaladin, he would have given him the shards.

 

Yes there are times where there is no other choice, however this was not one of them. 

I initially stated if the decision was between Amaram and Kaladin, but when I thought more about it, Kaladin also does not follow the Ideas completely. Neither does Dalinar, the Blackthorn. They've both deviated from them on occasions, so I decided to change the wording a bit.

 

As I said, the Ideals of the KR is nice, but if you try to apply it to every situation, then that would make you a zealot, and the ideals no more than just another set of dogma.

 

EDIT:

 

A leader cannot afford to trust too easily.

 

Look at Dalinar, and what happened when he trusted Sadeas. Or in a more relatable event, not even Kaladin trust his own men when he told Sly to spy on them after they have stolen some spheres. He just want to make it appear as if he trust them completely, but he has a sound mind in his head. He knows that loyalty is a fickle, it can change as suddenly as the wind.

Edited by mrwerd
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@mrwerd, on the grand scheme of things, Amaram's choice was the good one. If Kaladin would have kept the shards, he would have saved as many lives as Amaram did. Soldier with shards, in Amaram's army. He would have done what Amaram ordered. What Amaram did these 2 years, Kaladon would have done. Same shards, different person.

With Kaladon a shardbearer - with a Blade - Syl would not have bonded him (she stays away from Blades). He would not be now on the path of becoming a KR. He would not have saved all those lives.

Thus, you see, Amaram's choice was the best. Amaram IS responsible for all those Kaladin saved. Without him, Kaladin would not have saved them. Add those that Amaram himself saves with the shards, minus those he killed, and per total Amaram I think ends up saving more people than Kaladin.

 

Well, don't wanna fault your logic, but his kind of argument is a litle forced. Amaram didn't save anyone, Kaladin did, and we don't know what would have happened if Kaladin wasn't betrayed. He could have taked the blade and did good with it, or he could have bonded with Sly even without the brigde 4 and helped other people with his power without the need of his squad die who knows ? 

 

It's very cynical thought put in Amaram count all good things that Kaladin did, Amaram didn't planned or foresaw what would happen. 

 

In this king of logic every evil deed could be justified if something good come of it, even if the person that did the evil thing didn't know that something good would come of it. 

 

But, hey, this is my opinion and I don't believe in the ticking bomb theory and even worse in machiavelic philosophy. Journey before destination to me =)

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