Eye Colour of Surgebinders

[KevHotRod]

This will probably sound stupid but I just finished a re-read of WoK and I was wondering if you started using stormlight would your eye colour change to a set colour or just become lighter? Szeth's eyes glow sapphire even though his eyes are green and Kaladin's glow amber but the Knights Radiants of each order have plates that glow a different colour (i.e. Blue, red and whatever) so does a similar thing happen to their eyes?

I'm pretty sure that kaladins eyes glow blue. Not Amber.

I also believe that each radiants order's randiants have there own color.

Windrunners- blue

Lightweavers- blood red

dustbringers- Crismon red

That's all I'm for sure of. I could be wrong on Dustbringers though.

[Oudeis]

This has always bothered me. Shallan, who should be exhibiting the eyes of her Order by now, has blue eyes. The one time in all the books i've been able to see where they mention the color of a garnet, it's azure. Technically, azure is a very rare but possible natural color for something chemically a garnet to be. yet, the surgebinding chart has the lightweaver order in the color we'd expect a typical earth garnet to be. And garnet spheres are called "bloodmarks" which could just refer to their soulcasting property. Skymarks make air. Firemarks make fire. Clearmarks make quartz. These are also all the color of those things. What's coincidence, and what's underlying principle? Was the azure garnet a typo, a rarity, or the color all garnets are?

 

So... what color are garnets on Roshar? What color are Shallan's eyes? Are they the right color, should they change, will they change?

[RawToast225]

This has always bothered me. Shallan, who should be exhibiting the eyes of her Order by now, has blue eyes. The one time in all the books i've been able to see where they mention the color of a garnet, it's azure. Technically, azure is a very rare but possible natural color for something chemically a garnet to be. yet, the surgebinding chart has the lightweaver order in the color we'd expect a typical earth garnet to be. And garnet spheres are called "bloodmarks" which could just refer to their soulcasting property. Skymarks make air. Firemarks make fire. Clearmarks make quartz. These are also all the color of those things. What's coincidence, and what's underlying principle? Was the azure garnet a typo, a rarity, or the color all garnets are?

So... what color are garnets on Roshar? What color are Shallan's eyes? Are they the right color, should they change, will they change?

They are actually a deep orange.

JK, I have no idea.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Arthur Dent

[Pestis the Spider]

The one time in all the books i've been able to see where they mention the color of a garnet, it's azure. Technically, azure is a very rare but possible natural color for something chemically a garnet to be. yet, the surgebinding chart has the lightweaver order in the color we'd expect a typical earth garnet to be.

So, I've made some research, and I couldn't find any mention of azure garnets in the book. I've found one description of sapphires being azure, but that's nothing surprising. However in Chapter 5 of TWoK we have a mention of deep violet garnets:

Like the grand cavern outside, this hallway was cut from the rock, but it was more richly furbished, with ornate hanging chandeliers made with Stormlit gemstones. Most were deep violet garnets, which were among the less valuable stones.

Also the books over and over again mention that 'something is garnet colour' (for example the Patternblade was this colour), so I dare to assume that all garnets on Roshar are indeed the same colour, but I may be wrong.

And garnet spheres are called "bloodmarks" which could just refer to their soulcasting property. Skymarks make air. Firemarks make fire. Clearmarks make quartz. These are also all the color of those things. What's coincidence, and what's underlying principle?

As for that, it is kind of interesting. Because human blood is described as red or crimson (although Shallan once says her blood is purple in WoR, weird), so if 'bloodmark' would describe the colour of the garnet, then garnet's should be red, but the previous quote says they're violet. It is mentioned in WoR that axehounds' blood is violet, but I don't think anyone would actually call a gemstone after the colour of the blood of an axehound. So these 'bloodmark, clearmark, etc.' seem to refer more to their properties.

So... what color are garnets on Roshar? What color are Shallan's eyes? Are they the right color, should they change, will they change?

Well, currently Shallan's eyes are blue. WoB states that each Order gest a different eye colour, so her eyes should change, as blue is the colour of Windrunners, and we all know Shallan is not a Windrunner. But what colour they should change into that is a good question. Should they be violet, red, orange (for Parshendi blood, because why not), or other colour? I don't know. I also have no idea, why her eyes did not change by now, as she said more of her Truths, than Kaladin sworn his oaths.

I do see several possible explanations, though. Maybe she is subconsciously lightweaving her eyes to be blue.

Or it may actually be a general trait of Lightweavers. Lightweavers are already different from other Orders by having 'Truths' instead of 'Oaths', so maybe they are different also in other areas. Maybe they just simply have to say more Truths to get their eye colour. What I mean, is that how vague the Truths are as opposed to Oaths. The Oath you make and either you stick with it, or you break it, and you're not a Surgebinder anymore. The Truths can be either always true (like that when Shallan says 'I killed my father', because she can't change it in any way), or can be true at the moment (like when she says 'I'm afraid'). But if previously spoken Truth suddenly is not true anymore (for example if Shallan stops being afraid) is it like breaking an Oath? I don't think so. For me it looks like Lightweavers cannot break their Oaths, because they don't really have any. Maybe they just regress in their abilities when their Truth becomes untrue, and they have to say more? Well, maybe what I'm saying doesn't make a lot of sense to anyone, but what I mean is that having Truths instead of Oaths makes Lightweavers different from other Orders, and have to affect them in some way, and maybe (just maybe) it is somehow connected (in very complicated way) to their eye colour staying the same as it was.

Another explanation is that it may be just the 'state of mind' thing. I mean, at the end of WoR, Kaladin finally fully embraced his abilities and really started to recognise himself as a Windrunner, and maybe that's what caused the change of his eye colour. Shallan uses her powers, says her Truths, but even Mraize states at the end of WoR that Shallan still doesn't know who she is and she wants to be, so her eyes stay normal.

What I also want to say is that I know that WoB states that each Order has different eye colour. But was it mentioned that it is specifically the colour of the gemstone associated with the Order? Because if so, isn't it contradictory with the statement that all Knights Radiant had light eyes? Because the gemstone for Skybreakers seems to be Smokestone, which is described as black (definitely not light colour). Garnets being deep violet also don't sound like particularly light colour, because light violet is the colour of the Amethyst. And diamonds are completely clear. So what? White eyes for Edgedancers?

Edited December 28, 2014 by Pestis the Spider

[Oudeis]

There's a scene where Kabsal bring Shallan a lantern in Way of Kings just before she draws his picture, and the light is described as azure. I don't think it's in the same paragraph, which threw me off at first, but at two different points in the scene, I believe it's expressly said "the lantern gave azure light" and I know for sure that the gem inside was garnet, because that's the same stone she later uses to Soulcast the goblet into blood, then gave to Jasnah when Jasnah was screaming that she needed a garnet to save Shallan's life in the hospital, at the poisoning.

 

I will try to get page numbers when I'm home from the holidays and have my books.

 

I didn't recall the garnets in the chandelier in chap. 5 of Way of Kings, but I will check again.

 

EDIT and update:

 

Now it all confuses me. i don't know how I missed your reference, but I see it there plain as day now. Garnets are violet. Yet I found my reference, from chapter 45.

 

Just before she arrived, someone stepped up to the doorway, holding aloft a garnet lantern.

 

"Kabsal?" Shallan asked, surprised to see his youthful face, painted blue by the light.

 

In real life, the baseline for garnet is burgundy. In Way of Kings, they are described as violet or blue. What. The. What.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Ooklalhoo'Elin

[Pestis the Spider]

Well, I've got an ebook version and I just typed in "azure" in the search engine, and I've got just one result and it was about sapphires. But maybe I still missed something, because it sometimes can be faulty. 

 

Although I did find the description now (in chapter 45) that the lanter you're talking about (or at least I think it's this one) was 'deep blue', and the light from it was blue. And it is clearly stated it's a garnet lantern. I'm confused. 

[KevinTheHerdazian]

Well there is a WoB that the hardback cover depicts the color of the associated knight. The first one was blue and kaladin is a windrunner and their gemstone is sapphire. The second one is a dark red and shallan is a lightweaver the gemstone for those is the garnet. If someone could find the quote I'm talking about that would really help

[Kurkistan]

Challenge accepted!

 

*Takes a bit to fine the root citation. People need to link to things more...*

 

Source:

Q:  Are the rest of the books in the Stormlight Archive going to be different colors?

A:  They are, and you can actually match the color to the order of the Knights Radiant.  That's the Windrunners[WoK], that's the symbol of the Windrunners, that's the color. That's the Lightweavers[WoR], and that's the symbol of the Lightweavers, which is the same, and the color.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Kurkistan

[KevinTheHerdazian]

Thank you Kurdistan! Very helpful

[Kurkistan]

You're welcome, though the name's Kurkistan: I'm not a geo-cultural region.

[KevinTheHerdazian]

Sorry, spell check did that. Lol

[gjustice99]

Not yet... There never were any mention of her eyes turning red, even after she used all this stormlight to open the Oathgate. It has been confirmed each order has a specific eye color, but we do not know if it is permanent. The mechanism as to when a Radiant is considered advanced enough to have its eyes change color is unclear to me. Shallan is more advanced then Kaladin and has sure used up a great amount of stormlight at the end of WoR and yet her eyes seemed to have remained green.

 

The red eyes would have been passed through the generations, even if badly think upon, there would still have mention of individual with red eyes.... I think, unless Vorinism has purposely removed all mention of such individual ever existing. Two orders were harboring red eyes... that is a lot of people to hide and/or kill.

I thought Shallan's eyes were normally blue.

[Kurkistan]

@Kevin

 

Figured it was something like that.

[AerionBFII]

Wasn't there a dark eyes in the slave cage with Kal with dark dark green eyes?

Edited January 4, 2015 by WEZ313

[The Mad Reader]

 

What I also want to say is that I know that WoB states that each Order has different eye colour. But was it mentioned that it is specifically the colour of the gemstone associated with the Order? Because if so, isn't it contradictory with the statement that all Knights Radiant had light eyes? Because the gemstone for Skybreakers seems to be Smokestone, which is described as black (definitely not light colour). Garnets being deep violet also don't sound like particularly light colour, because light violet is the colour of the Amethyst. And diamonds are completely clear. So what? White eyes for Edgedancers?

 

Maybe Radiants have the same color as the gemstone, but lighter, so a Skybreaker would have grey eyes for a black stone. 

 

Wasn't there a dark eyes in the slave cage with Kal with dark dark green eyes?

 

I think that they looked at the actual lightness of the eyes to determine rank, so there are darkeyes with green eyes, and lighteyes with green eyes, but the lighteyes's eyes would be a lighter shade of green. Its the same as tan eyes = lighteyes, but brown eyes = darkeyes. 

 I wonder how they determine what shade exactly is considered lighteyed. I guess they'd go by what your parents are, but what if your mother was lighteyed and your father was darkeyed, and you had medium green eyes? 

[Oudeis]

I assume that no one on Roshar has medium eyes. Another quirk of genetics like the hair or the frequent heterochromia.

[AerionBFII]

I have been wondering that the lighteyes on Roshar have like supernaturally light eyes..whats interesting as well about the genetics as well is how the Heralds dont exactly fit into simply one class i.e. Makabaki, Shin, Alethi ect.

Edited January 7, 2015 by WEZ313