Eye Colour of Surgebinders

[Colby Jack]

IIRC, in the previous version, Merin, who became Kaladin, took up the Shards and his life was too easy, so I don't think Amaram took them and made him a slave.  He might even have saved Dalinar, not Amaram, but I am even less certain about that. 

That reminds me of the Dresden Files. Whenever Harry's life got too comfortable, Mr. Butcher would always throw in a new element to make sure he suffers a bit/a ton.

[lookingglass]

FYI, no big deal and I personally don't care, but local custom prefers that we unify our posts and avoid double-posting. One can multi-quote to respond to multiple posts or edit the first post. 

So the current lighteyes are all descended from Radiants who didn't give up their blades?  I'm just trying to understand. 

 

IIRC, in the previous version, Merin, who became Kaladin, took up the Shards and his life was too easy, so I don't think Amaram took them and made him a slave.  He might even have saved Dalinar, not Amaram, but I am even less certain about that. 

 

No. I don't believe that they are all descendants. Were there even KR who didn't give up their blades? I just think the people assume that lighter eyes = more power but they don't know why they think that. The reason behind it is that in generations past they linked that to the KR having light eyes from stormlight.They knew it back then so it wasn't as important, or they thought it would help with being a surgebinder but they just forgot that part in later years cause of all the taboos associated with the KRs. Kind of like the legends about mistwraiths had a grain of truth to them with the skaa but they had no idea what they really were or how they became smart.

[Arook]

Szeth has a shardblade but his eyes arent constantly light only when he uses stormlight. Also I think that Amaram would have gotten the shards one way or another. I think Brandon said in an interview or somewhere else that in the first edition of WoK he had Kaladin accept the shards but Amaran took them anyway and made him a slave.

Szeth it an anomaly in general surgebinding without being bonded to a spren and the possibility that he has a honor blade makes him a hard example. As for early plans for kaladin that were not published, they shouldn't really have a bearing.  

[lookingglass]

Szeth it an anomaly in general surgebinding without being bonded to a spren and the possibility that he has a honor blade makes him a hard example. As for early plans for kaladin that were not published, they shouldn't really have a bearing.  

 

Just because Szeth us an abnormality we can't generalize that everyone else is not like him. Also we don't know if he does have an honor blade.

[Swimmingly]

Just because Szeth us an abnormality we can't generalize that everyone else is not like him. Also we don't know if he does have an honor blade.

We also can't assume that anyone else IS like him until reasonably demonstrated - whatever he is has the same effect as the Windrunners - mostly - but seems to have a totally different cause

[IllNsickly]

What if we are looking at the "Lighteyes" thing wrong.. Szeth and Kaladin have both shown LIGHTED eyes.. as in backlit or shining light. Im pretty sure "LIGHTEYES" should be taken as a quality of the eyes, not the colour of them...

So even the current "lighteyes" are darkeyed.. as in, their eyes have no illumination...

Which would, of course, mean that Roshar as a whole has got the wrong interpretation as well..

Edited to add the last bit.

Edited January 2, 2014 by IllNsickly

[Daishi5]

That might be a good little twist on their weird racism.

[morningwing]

Each order is assosiated with a gemstone. I always assumed that the knight would eventually "bleach" their eyes that color use. The eyes are the windows into the soul. Perhaps as they grow to represent the ideals of their orders the eye color changes accordingly to reflect the changing of the soul?

[Shaggai]

What if we are looking at the "Lighteyes" thing wrong.. Szeth and Kaladin have both shown LIGHTED eyes.. as in backlit or shining light. Im pretty sure "LIGHTEYES" should be taken as a quality of the eyes, not the colour of them...

So even the current "lighteyes" are darkeyed.. as in, their eyes have no illumination...

Which would, of course, mean that Roshar as a whole has got the wrong interpretation as well..

Edited to add the last bit.

Unlikely. The word "lighteyes" would have been unnecessary when the Radiants ruled, so it probably came into usage later. Also, there's no guarantee that "light" has all of the same meanings in Alethi. "Light" in "lighteyes" seems to mean something more like "pale", and there's no reason for it to also mean "illumination".

[maxal]

Each order is assosiated with a gemstone. I always assumed that the knight would eventually "bleach" their eyes that color use. The eyes are the windows into the soul. Perhaps as they grow to represent the ideals of their orders the eye color changes accordingly to reflect the changing of the soul?

 

If that is the case, then how come there are no lighteyes harboring red eyes? Radiants' eye colors are not limited to blue, green, purple and tan: red was also a color. Where are the red eyed people of Roshar?

[Oudeis]

Unlikely. The word "lighteyes" would have been unnecessary when the Radiants ruled, ...

 

I do not believe the Radiants ever did "rule"...

[Twenty@20]

Lighteyes are often called Brightlords and Brightness. Wonder if these names are remnants of the earlier age of Radiants with actual glowing bright eyes rather than just a lighter shade of eye colour.

[Fallen Rope]

I think any one with red eyes would of been though as a voidbringer after the recrence. Thats why there are none left. Do Shallens eyes turn red when she uses her shard blade?

Edited November 23, 2014 by Fallen Rope

[maxal]

I think any one with red eyes would of been though as a voidbringer after the recrence. Thats why thereo are none left. Do Shallens eyes turn red when she uses her shard blade?

 

Not yet... There never were any mention of her eyes turning red, even after she used all this stormlight to open the Oathgate. It has been confirmed each order has a specific eye color, but we do not know if it is permanent. The mechanism as to when a Radiant is considered advanced enough to have its eyes change color is unclear to me. Shallan is more advanced then Kaladin and has sure used up a great amount of stormlight at the end of WoR and yet her eyes seemed to have remained green.

 

The red eyes would have been passed through the generations, even if badly think upon, there would still have mention of individual with red eyes.... I think, unless Vorinism has purposely removed all mention of such individual ever existing. Two orders were harboring red eyes... that is a lot of people to hide and/or kill.

[Fallen Rope]

My guess is that the red eyed descendants would have been killed or gone into hiding, for a country that thinks eye colour is very important, having red eyes is possibly illegal.

Maybe Shallen could have been lightweaving her eyes subconsciously, the lightweaving could take a long time to run out since the eyes natural attract investiture? 

[Kurkistan]

Source:

ARGENT

Will a Surgebinder's eye color change when they Surgebind or have a Blade... Is the color of their eyes corresponding to their Order? So Windrunners would do blue, and...

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes.

 

ARGENT

So each Order does a different eye color?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Each Order does indeed get a different eye color.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Kurkistan

[sun tzaro]

Not yet... There never were any mention of her eyes turning red, even after she used all this stormlight to open the Oathgate. It has been confirmed each order has a specific eye color, but we do not know if it is permanent. 

 

 

SA3 spoilers:

In the Kaladin preview chapter, Kaladin mentions that his eyes turn blue after stormlight usage, and the change wears off hours later. That doesn't mean it can't become permanent, but as of now, for Kaladin it is not.

 

 

 The mechanism as to when a Radiant is considered advanced enough to have its eyes change color is unclear to me. Shallan is more advanced then Kaladin and has sure used up a great amount of stormlight at the end of WoR and yet her eyes seemed to have remained green.

 

 

I assume that the eye color change is linked to Oath level. 

 

Teft mentions that Kaladin's eyes have changed color after Kaladin had spoken the third Oath and used surgebinding against Szeth.

 

Shallan doesn't do any surgebinding after speaking her second Truth (third Oath) at the end of WoR, so it makes sense that we haven't seen her eye color change.

Edited November 24, 2014 by sun tzaro

[maxal]

SA3 spoilers:

In the Kaladin preview chapter, Kaladin mentions that his eyes turn blue after stormlight usage, and the change wears off hours later. That doesn't mean it can't become permanent, but as of now, for Kaladin it is not.

 

 

As I said, we do not know if it will be permanent or simply linked to stormlight absorption. We do not have sufficient clues, but Kaladin's experience makes me think it isn't. That's my gut feeling I would say.

 

 

I assume that the eye color change is linked to Oath level. 

 

Teft mentions that Kaladin's eyes have changed color after Kaladin had spoken the third Oath and used surgebinding against Szeth.

 

Shallan doesn't do any surgebinding after speaking her second Truth (third Oath) at the end of WoR, so it makes sense that we haven't seen her eye color change.

 

Shallan is one oath ahead of Kaladin, so it cannot be linked to the oath level. She has said three truths, not two (I am afraid, I killed my father, I killed my mother). At the time when she tried to open the oathgate, she adsorbed a huge amount of stormlight, she was a level 3 Radiant and yet her eyes did not change.

 

Shallan has had her shardblade for years, so it cannot be linked to acquiring one.

 

The only other I can thing of is perception. Kaladin accepts he is a Radiant at the end of WoR: he embraces it while Shallan still is reluctant. It could be it.

[Moogle]

Shallan is already a lighteyes (with permanently brightened eyes). It could be that's the reason her eyes haven't changed - the Stormlight isn't quite strong enough to override her genetics. I doubt we'll see anything before her fourth truth (fifth? if the First Ideal doesn't count?).

Edited November 24, 2014 by Moogle

[sun tzaro]

 

Shallan is one oath ahead of Kaladin, so it cannot be linked to the oath level. She has said three truths, not two (I am afraid, I killed my father, I killed my mother). At the time when she tried to open the oathgate, she adsorbed a huge amount of stormlight, she was a level 3 Radiant and yet her eyes did not change.

 

 

Can you elaborate on that first Truth? I don't remember anything about "I am afraid".

 

As far as I can remember, she used her first Truth (I killed my father) when she was soulcasted the goblet into blood. 

 

I'd be surprised if Shallan spent the entirety of WoR as a third Oath Radiant, because Kaladin got a massive power-up after speaking his third oath, while Shallan's powers seemed rather underwhelming.

 

I'm having a hard time accepting the idea that Shallan is one level away from being a fully powered Radiant when she hasn't touched the sound aspect of Illumination and has barely skimmed the surface of Soulcasting. 

Edited November 25, 2014 by sun tzaro

[Arondell]

Can you elaborate on that first Truth? I don't remember anything about "I am afraid".

 

As far as I can remember, she used her first Truth (I killed my father) when she was soulcasted the goblet into blood. 

 

 

Ta da!  I also vaguely recall there being a Word of Brandon that at the end of Words of Radiance Shallan is one oath ahead of Kaladin but I'm too lazy to look for it.

 

 

What are you?

She clutched her hand to her chest, losing her balance on the soft bed, falling to her knees on the rumpled blanket. She put one hand to the side, steadying herself on the nightstand, fingers brushing the large glass goblet that sat there.

“What am I?” she whispered. “I’m terrified.”

This is true.

The bedroom transformed around her.

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive) (p. 643). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

[RawToast225]

Let's assume that the pink eyed Radiants are the most sickly of the lot.

[sun tzaro]

Ta da!  I also vaguely recall there being a Word of Brandon that at the end of Words of Radiance Shallan is one oath ahead of Kaladin but I'm too lazy to look for it.

 

Huh, I could have sworn that not long after, the Cryptics said that they needed a stronger Truth. I'll have to find my copy of WoK and look up the passage.

 

But, if it's WoB, I can hardly argue with that.

 

Still, wouldn't that mean she had spoken two Truths in the span of minutes? That seems a little... rushed.

[Arondell]

Huh, I could have sworn that not long after, the Cryptics said that they needed a stronger Truth. I'll have to find my copy of WoK and look up the passage.

 

But, if it's WoB, I can hardly argue with that.

 

Still, wouldn't that mean she had spoken two Truths in the span of minutes? That seems a little... rushed.

 

What your thinking of is the second truth she spoke a couple of days later when Shallan confronted Jasnah.

 

 

Creatures, she said in her head. Can you hear me?

Yes, always, a whisper came in response. Though she’d hoped to hear it, she still jumped.

Can you return me to that place? she asked.

You need to tell me something true, it replied. The more true, the stronger our bond.

Jasnah is using a fake Soulcaster, Shallan thought. I’m sure that’s a truth.

That’s not enough, the voice whispered. I must know something true about you. Tell me. The stronger the truth, the more hidden it is, the more powerful the bond. Tell me. Tell me. What are you?

“What am I?” Shallan whispered. “Truthfully?” It was a day for confrontation. She felt strangely strong, steady. Time to speak it. “I’m a murderer. I killed my father.”

Ah, the voice whispered. A powerful truth indeed…. And the alcove vanished.

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive) (pp. 968-969). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

[Moogle]

I'm having a hard time accepting the idea that Shallan is one level away from being a fully powered Radiant when she hasn't touched the sound aspect of Illumination and has barely skimmed the surface of Soulcasting. 

 

Shallan was apparently extremely talented with Illumination as a child, for reference, and apparently said enough truths to get Pattern as a Shardblade. When Kaladin lost his bond to Syl, he didn't 'lose' the fact that he said the First and Second Ideals, so when Shallan (almost) broke hers, she didn't either (or, well, didn't lose them all - which would explain how she's a step above Kaladin).

 

As to the WoB:

Q:  How many oaths can a Radiant swear?

A:  There is an upper-limit/threshold to the number of oaths a Radiant may make. By the end of WoR, Shallan is a step higher than Kaladin.

 

Not completely sure on this one: He said that at one point Shallan may have said all the oaths for her order (or may have been capable of saying all of the oaths by the end of the book) but has since regressed due to "memory loss/repression."

(source)

Edited November 25, 2014 by Moogle