Elkohar has an honor blade?

[Chlehrma]

“Elhokar, the king’s son and heir, sat at the high table, ruling the feast in his father’s absence. He was in conversation with two men, a dark-skinned Azish man who had an odd patch of pale skin on his cheek and a thinner, Alethi-looking man who kept glancing over his shoulder.”

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“I don’t like this. What we’ve done is wrong. That creature carries my lord’s own Blade. We shouldn’t have let him keep it. He—” From Jasnah's prologue reading. Same two characters (Heralds?) from above. (Darkness from Lift's Interlude)

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“Kalak frowned as he stepped up to the base of the spire. Seven magnificent swords stood proudly here, driven point-first into the stone ground. Each was a masterly work of art, flowing in design, inscribed with glyphs and patterns. He recognized each one. If their masters had died, the Blades would have vanished.”

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“Make it angry!” Elhokar bellowed, his Shardblade—Sunraiser—springing from mist into his hand. It was long and thin with a large crossguard, and was etched up the sides with the ten fundamental glyphs.

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Is it just me, or does it seem like Elkohar possesses one of the Honorblades (Dawnshards?) that were abandoned by the nine fallen Heralds? If so, then it is possible that when we see shard blades that have glyphs and patterns we are actually seeing one of the Heralds' abandoned blades.

Just a theory. How far off the mark am I?

[dj26792]

Points for novelty if nothing else, I can't think of a reason why not...

 

Except Honourblades are supposed to be weapons of huge power, far in excess of a normal shardblade and I feel like someone should have noticed, they're also less vanishy than normal shardblades from what we've seen, although that is by no means certain.

 

I like it better than the theory that Szeth has an honourblade although I don't think either is more likely than the other.

 

In summary I think that this theory is definitely plausible and can think of no real reasons it has to be wrong, or even is wrong but I currently find it unlikely.

[hoser]

I guess it's possible, as dj says. 

 

The differences we know between Shardblades (presumed former radiantblades and Szethblades) and Honorblades:

1. greater power (as dj said), but we don't know how they are more powerful
2. when bearer dies Honorblades are supposed to disappear, whereas Radiantblades appear
3. Taln has dark eyes when carrying his presumed Honorblade, whereas Radiantblades supposedly lighten ones eyes permanently and the Szethblade lightens his eyes temporarily

The history of the king's blade is presumably well known.  I guess it comes down to what you believe the differences are and whether you believe that the differences would have been noticed. 

[Bloodfalcon]

Hahaha, there is almost  more evidence for this scenario than any other Honorblade scenario I have seen. 

[The Count]

I like this actually...

Many have speculated that the WoR prologue comment is with regards to Szeth but we KNOW that the two men have been talking to Elokhar from TWoK prologue...

The mention of Glyphs on the blade is also quite suggestive.

Nice catch.

[The Rooster]

No wonder he's seeing Crypics.  They're like "Listen you dummy, we're here to give you superpowers!  Quit ignoring us!"

[Oudeis]

Perhaps each Honorblade ended up going to one of the Silver Kingdoms? Szeth could be carrying Shin Kak Nish's Blade, and Sunraiser might be the one given to Alethela, passed down via the royal line? (though there's a flaw in that, didn't Gavilar have a different Blade? Maybe they added a second, and grandfathers pass their Blades to grandsons, so it staggers). Maybe either Natanatan or Aimia was the only places not to get a Blade (there were only nine), hence why one of them fell? And then the other fell for some other reason.

 

If it's an honorblade, which one do we think it is?

[18th Shard]

Who better to be a king than one with the Herald's own Blade? Passed down through the family. Plus, maybe Gavilar didn't bond with the Honorblade. Dalinar "bonded" with Oathbringer, didn't he? Do you have to bond with every Shardblade and how does this work?

[Daishi5]

My only biggest issue with this is that I believe Elkohar loans out his blade for duels.  If Honorblades are different from shardblades, then loaning it out seems to make it likely to be noticed.  If only Elkohar used his blade, it would be possible he didn't notice any difference because he never had a shardblade to compare it to.  However, during the duels, you would have someone who had trained with a normal shardblade using an honorblade against another shardbearer in an arena that was carefully watched.  (I am assuming that a high ranked lighteyes with no blade could receive training with a real shardblade, because otherwise dueling with shardblades when you have never held one before seems silly.)  I would expect either the duelist to notice that the kings blade is different, or the crowd to notice something.  

 

I still like Szeth has an honorblade theory (even without evidence, I just like it).  Anyone who may have noticed any differences either died, or was probably so terrified that they didn't take time to compare it to the behavior of other blades.  

 

Edit: there are probably other things, but the fact that the king loans out his blade seems to be a problem with this theory.  Unless Honorblades are really close to normal shardblades most of the time, or in normal mortal hands.  

Edited December 17, 2013 by Daishi5

[Bloodfalcon]

My only biggest issue with this is that I believe Elkohar loans out his blade for duels.  If Honorblades are different from shardblades, then loaning it out seems to make it likely to be noticed.  If only Elkohar used his blade, it would be possible he didn't notice any difference because he never had a shardblade to compare it to.  However, during the duels, you would have someone who had trained with a normal shardblade using an honorblade against another shardbearer in an arena that was carefully watched.  (I am assuming that a high ranked lighteyes with no blade could receive training with a real shardblade, because otherwise dueling with shardblades when you have never held one before seems silly.)  I would expect either the duelist to notice that the kings blade is different, or the crowd to notice something.  

 

I still like Szeth has an honorblade theory (even without evidence, I just like it).  Anyone who may have noticed any differences either died, or was probably so terrified that they didn't take time to compare it to the behavior of other blades.  

 

Edit: there are probably other things, but the fact that the king loans out his blade seems to be a problem with this theory.  Unless Honorblades are really close to normal shardblades most of the time, or in normal mortal hands.  

Great counterpoint. Can't be sure whether or not an Honorblade bonds to a person in a special way that allows for this, but it certainly makes the scenario much less likely in my eyes. 

[Oudeis]

My only biggest issue with this is that I believe Elkohar loans out his blade for duels.

 

Hrm... first, I sorta agree with the idea that honorblades are mostly hidden in plain sight; that without knowing what you're doing, they wouldn't automatically look like not-normal shardblades.

 

Second... I'm going to look up that quote. Does it expressly say the King's own Blade? I remember thinking at the time that it meant the King himself had a few, three maybe four, Blades in an armory, to be kept to loan out for duels or in case someone does something that deserves a reward, so he doesn't have to wait around until he gets a new one. But I admit I didn't pay close attention at the time, and maybe I missed something that made it clear they meant Elhokar's own specific actual personal Blade. Dalinar's thoughts on the matter gave me the impression that simply "loaning out" your personal Shardblade, something literally bonded to your own very soul, would be like casually allowing another man to hold your junk. That personal, that intimate, that unthinkable.

[11thorderknight]

I'm pretty sure WoK did say the king loaned out his personal Blade for a fee. Sick bastard :-)

 

Also, when there are less than a hundred known Blades in the world, keeping a few just lying around in an armory is a ridiculous thing to do. They'd instantly be stolen, either by the guards guarding them, or other Shardbearers. The only way to keep one safe is in the hands of someone who knows how to use it, or in complete secrecy.

[Chlehrma]

I'm pretty sure WoK did say the king loaned out his personal Blade for a fee. Sick bastard :-)

 

Also, when there are less than a hundred known Blades in the world, keeping a few just lying around in an armory is a ridiculous thing to do. They'd instantly be stolen, either by the guards guarding them, or other Shardbearers. The only way to keep one safe is in the hands of someone who knows how to use it, or in complete secrecy.

Unless those spare blades are in an armory in Urithru, since no one can get to it. May also explain: “The figure was silent for a moment. Then he spoke in a clear, crisp voice. “Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. Speak again the ancient oaths and return to men the Shards they once bore.”

Excerpt From: Sanderson, Brandon. “The Way of Kings.” Tom Doherty Associates, 2010. iBooks.

[angryman13]

I'm pretty sure WoK did say the king loaned out his personal Blade for a fee. Sick bastard :-)

 

Also, when there are less than a hundred known Blades in the world, keeping a few just lying around in an armory is a ridiculous thing to do. They'd instantly be stolen, either by the guards guarding them, or other Shardbearers. The only way to keep one safe is in the hands of someone who knows how to use it, or in complete secrecy.

the kings plate and blade are available or a large fee to those who had both his favor and the wish to duel a shard-bearer

page 823 last paragraph

high princes also had to do this before kingship was restored.

i think it unlikely that Elkohar has an honor blade since only 2 are available in the world and one is held by the herald and the other is held by 'a monster' which doesn't seem to fit in with current descriptions of Elkohar.

Edited December 20, 2013 by angryman13

[Bloodfalcon]

the kings plate and blade are available or a large fee to those who had both his favor and the wish to duel a shard-bearer

page 823 last paragraph

high princes also had to do this before kingship was restored.

i think it unlikely that Elkohar has an honor blade since only 2 are available in the world and one is held by the herald and the other is held by 'a monster' which doesn't seem to fit in with current descriptions of Elkohar.

That is not necessarily how this works. One Herald went and took their Honorblade back. That does not mean the rest have not been taken by others. If that were the case, it would change the discussion quite a bit though.

[angryman13]

That is not necessarily how this works. One Herald went and took their Honorblade back. That does not mean the rest have not been taken by others. If that were the case, it would change the discussion quite a bit though.

true forgive my thoughtlessness (new to the site and have been trying to read as much as possible including theory land pages which have kind of blurred together think i mistook 1 reply as a definitive there has only been one blade taken) this was just my way of interpreting it.

or one person could have taken several that is the other option i see as being possible if one is going to say that multiple blades have been taken.

[Bloodfalcon]

true forgive my thoughtlessness (new to the site and have been trying to read as much as possible including theory land pages which have kind of blurred together think i mistook 1 reply as a definitive there has only been one blade taken) this was just my way of interpreting it.

or one person could have taken several that is the other option i see as being possible if one is going to say that multiple blades have been taken.

 

Haha, no problem, that happens a lot on this site. There are going to be a few things that just go completely against what we know in the next book and we are going to turn around and find that we convinced ourselves of things that aren't true. You should go look at hoser's I Told You So posts on all the people on both sides of some crazy theories they/we have convinced ourselves of. I feel like I only joined last week, but welcome to the site!!

[Rade]

You know, if the Honorblades are all unique, then A: they would seem pretty distinctive compared to other Shardblades, and B: Just because the Herald went back and took their Honorblade doesn't mean they kept it. For all we know, (s)he took it, got tired of the reminders of responsibility they once carried, and decided to give it to someone. (Although personally I think that the 10 kingdoms idea is better.)

[Gloom]

You know, if the Honorblades are all unique, then A: they would seem pretty distinctive compared to other Shardblades, and B: Just because the Herald went back and took their Honorblade doesn't mean they kept it. For all we know, (s)he took it, got tired of the reminders of responsibility they once carried, and decided to give it to someone. (Although personally I think that the 10 kingdoms idea is better.)

 

Actually, since all Shardblades are distinctive and somewhat unique, I think an Honorblade would be pretty well camouflaged.

[marianmi]

Actually, since all Shardblades are distinctive and somewhat unique, I think an Honorblade would be pretty well camouflaged.

 

Except that I think somebody wielding an honorblade would be more powerful than someone with a normal shardblade.

[edgedancermd]

Except that I think somebody wielding an honorblade would be more powerful than someone with a normal shardblade.

 

Perhaps not, depending on how the Honorblades are more powerful.  Until we know more about them, it's possible that someone would use it and it would behave just like a normal Shardblade, unless they know how to harness its power.

 

First post!  Excited for WoR to be out soon...

Edited December 28, 2013 by edgedancermd

[flyingtoastr]

Except that I think somebody wielding an honorblade would be more powerful than someone with a normal shardblade.

 

Not necessarily.

 

It can pretty well be assumed that Shardplate is behaving differently in modern Roshar than it did under the Knights Radiant (less awesome glowing, for one). It's also implied that this is probably a result of modern Rosharians being unaware of how to use it as originally intended, not that the Plate itself has become weaker. It would make sense that if a modern Rosharian like Elkohar got his hands on an Honorblade, he wouldn't be able to innately make use of all of it's abilities and might assume that it is simply just another Shardblade - and use it like just another Shardblade despite it being capable of much more.

Edited December 29, 2013 by flyingtoastr

[Rade]

I've got one problem: When Elhokar is using his Honorblade, why aren't his eyes brown? (Or dark, just not light-eyed.) This might just be a characteristic of one Herald's Honorblade, but still...you would think that it would do something different.

Edit: Different from normal Shardblades. Also, I realized another problem: Honorblades only disappear when their owner is dead, yes? So, how come Elhokar's can disappear?

Edited December 30, 2013 by Rade

[Aether]

I've got one problem: When Elhokar is using his Honorblade, why aren't his eyes brown? (Or dark, just not light-eyed.) This might just be a characteristic of one Herald's Honorblade, but still...you would think that it would do something different.

Edit: Different from normal Shardblades. Also, I realized another problem: Honorblades only disappear when their owner is dead, yes? So, how come Elhokar's can disappear?

All we know is that Honourblades disappear when the Herald it is linked to dies. It would be reasonable to assume that it might behave like a normal Shardblade when a non-Herald dies.

[IllNsickly]

I've got one problem: When Elhokar is using his Honorblade, why aren't his eyes brown? (Or dark, just not light-eyed.) This might just be a characteristic of one Herald's Honorblade, but still...you would think that it would do something different.

Edit: Different from normal Shardblades. Also, I realized another problem: Honorblades only disappear when their owner is dead, yes? So, how come Elhokar's can disappear?

My pennies on the pile..

Why shouldnt an Honourblade be dismissible? It seems like a terribly encumbering and awkward thing to simply pack about.

And i think that the difference between the standard Shardblades Power and Honourblades More Power would be a Nahael bond (sp?). It takes a Spren to unlock the potential of the respective Blade. Or do we know if the Heralds even had spren bonds.

The Radiant Plate behaved differently than the modern Shardplate does because of the bond, am i correct?