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Kaladin vs. Wax and Wayne


Baine

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Yea. I'm going to give the win to W&W here. Kaladin has no idea what a gun does, so all Wax has to do is send Wayne to distract him and boom boom boom Kaladin is dead. Stormlight might be good at healing but 3 bullets to the head and Kaladin is dead.

Would Syl intuitively know? I think she would find it dishonorable don't you?   :o   She's also a pretty good distraction.

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Would Syl intuitively know? I think she would find it dishonorable don't you?   :o   She's also a pretty good distraction.

 

I don't think she would know, unless she has been to Scadrial's Cognitive Realm. I doubt W&W care about honour in the same way that Syl does. She is incorporeal and has limited effect on the Physical Realm, she would be less effective as a distraction than Wayne. 

 

Does Wax have an Aluminum gun?

Edited by SmurfAquamarineBodies
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Yea. I'm going to give the win to W&W here. Kaladin has no idea what a gun does, so all Wax has to do is send Wayne to distract him and boom boom boom Kaladin is dead. Stormlight might be good at healing but 3 bullets to the head and Kaladin is dead.

 

 

I think that with a healthy supply of Stormlight, Kaladin could, in fact, heal from the bullets to the head. It all depends on how much Stormlight it takes to heal from one.

 

I don't think that Kal can be killed at all until his Stormlight is depleted.

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As soon as Wayne comes close enough to use a Time Bubble, Wayne dies. Remember that the Bubble collapses if Wayne exits, so all Kaladin would have to do is lash Wayne straight upwards, thereby removing the bubble and sending Wayne up 300ft. Kaladin would then just need to distract Wax long enough for Wayne to impact the ground. (Roughly 15 seconds? Maybe a bit less?)

300 feet is 90 meters. On Scadrial, which has the same gravity as on Earth, it would take about 7.7 seconds to fall that distance. On Roshar, which has about .7G, it would take about 9 seconds for Wayne to hit the ground. So, not that long even.

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I think that with a healthy supply of Stormlight, Kaladin could, in fact, heal from the bullets to the head. It all depends on how much Stormlight it takes to heal from one.

 

I don't think that Kal can be killed at all until his Stormlight is depleted.

 

He could easily heal it. But he still just got shot in the face. So he would be severely confused and in a lot of pain. Which would make him very easy to hit again. 

 

Ok. So assuming that the bullet stays lodged in his head, would Kaladin be able to Lash whilst the bullet is inside his brain?

How much of the damage would he need to heal before he can actively use his Stormlight.

 

Still gonna give the win to W&W. Guns are very powerful.

Edited by SmurfAquamarineBodies
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300 feet is 90 meters. On Scadrial, which has the same gravity as on Earth, it would take about 7.7 seconds to fall that distance. On Roshar, which has about .7G, it would take about 9 seconds for Wayne to hit the ground. So, not that long even.

 

Except the full trip physics are screwy. You have to calculate his acceleration upwards, then his deceleration upwards (ending at ~300 feet), then his acceleration downwards.  It's simple enough to do, just didn't (and still don't) feel like plugging in numbers

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Except the full trip physics are screwy. You have to calculate his acceleration upwards, then his deceleration upwards (ending at ~300 feet), then his acceleration downwards.  It's simple enough to do, just didn't (and still don't) feel like plugging in numbers

Well in that case, just double the numbers. The times I gave above are the times it would take an object to free-fall from 300 feet on the respective planets. I used G=10 for Scadrial, G=7 for Roshar, ignored air resistance, and assumed that 300 feet is the maximum height achieved. I've also found the initial upward velocity in each case. On Scadrial, it would be about 77 meters per second, and on Roshar it would be about 63 meters per second. That's slightly less than 8 lashings upward on Scadrial, and 9 lashings on Roshar.

I've made a couple assumptions here. First, I assume that a Lashing's strength is equal to whatever planet the surgebinder is on, which I'm pretty sure is how it works. Second, I've made the incorrect assumption that Kaladin's lashing acts instantaneously. The lashing would keep accelerating the object upward until the stormlight ran out, but here, I've assumed that the lashing acts instantaneously, giving the object an initial upwards velocity, then not effecting it for the rest of its trajectory. I could give you a more exact number if I knew exactly how long it takes the stormlight to dissipate. In actuality, it would require less lashings to reach 300 feet. The times, as you say LabRat, are much more complicated.

Despite all this stuff about lashings, it would still take the times I listed above for the object to fall from its highest point.

If anyone can understand all this physics technobabble, would you please check my numbers? Thanks.

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If I'm reading you correctly, you're using the physics for if he was shot out of a cannon. That's not how Lashing's work, they provide a continuous upward gravitational pull not an ititial momentum.

 

So I did the numbers, and here's the simple calculation I use when playing RPG's and someone jumps off a building... the number just get used for upwards acceleration, then for slowing, then for downwards like normal in this situation.

In second 1, they accelerate from 0 to 32ft/s, meaning they traveled 16ft. In s2, they go from 32-64ft/s, so they travel 48ft (64ft total distance), then s3 is 80ft more (144ft total). At the end of s3 he would be moving at 96ft/s, the Lashing would wear off and he would begin to lose upward momentum due to gravity so that at the send of s4 he would be moving at 64ft/s again (80ft travel in s4, 224ft total), then 32ft/s (272ft total) and then finally 16ft for a total of 288ft in 6 seconds.

 

He then falls like a rock, hitting the ground 4.2(ish) seconds later. Total travel 288ft up, 10 seconds

 

in 0.7 gravity, I get 4 seconds of upwards acceleration, 4 seconds of deceleration, 358.4 total height, and 5-6 seconds to hit the ground. If i did the mental math right, 3.5s upwards acceleration, 3.5s upwards slowing, and 5 seconds of falling gives almost exactly 300ft.

 

This is what I'm basing my numbers on. Mental math may have slipped somewhere so feel free to check it.

Time      Distance   Total Distance
Sec 0-1     16             16
Sec 1-2     48             64
Sec 2-3     80            144
Sec 3-4    112           256
Sec 4-5    144           400
 
Sec 0-1      11.2        11.2
Sec 1-2      33.6        44.8
Sec 2-3       56         100.8
Sec 3-4      78.4        179.2
Sec 4-5     100.8       280
 
Don't know how to put in a proper chart, hopefully that makes sense.
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Wax pushes Kaladin's spear away.  Kaladin thinks "Oh, yeah?" and lashes Wax's guns away.  Kaladin turns around and walks away cause he's not a bully.

I'm not sure why all the rules were put in place to take away Kaladin's advantages.  That just means that you already think Kaladin would win.  Why not blindfold him and tie him up as well?

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If I'm reading you correctly, you're using the physics for if he was shot out of a cannon. That's not how Lashing's work, they provide a continuous upward gravitational pull not an ititial momentum.

 

So I did the numbers, and here's the simple calculation I use when playing RPG's and someone jumps off a building... the number just get used for upwards acceleration, then for slowing, then for downwards like normal in this situation.

In second 1, they accelerate from 0 to 32ft/s, meaning they traveled 16ft. In s2, they go from 32-64ft/s, so they travel 48ft (64ft total distance), then s3 is 80ft more (144ft total). At the end of s3 he would be moving at 96ft/s, the Lashing would wear off and he would begin to lose upward momentum due to gravity so that at the send of s4 he would be moving at 64ft/s again (80ft travel in s4, 224ft total), then 32ft/s (272ft total) and then finally 16ft for a total of 288ft in 6 seconds.

 

He then falls like a rock, hitting the ground 4.2(ish) seconds later. Total travel 288ft up, 10 seconds

 

in 0.7 gravity, I get 4 seconds of upwards acceleration, 4 seconds of deceleration, 358.4 total height, and 5-6 seconds to hit the ground. If i did the mental math right, 3.5s upwards acceleration, 3.5s upwards slowing, and 5 seconds of falling gives almost exactly 300ft.

 

This is what I'm basing my numbers on. Mental math may have slipped somewhere so feel free to check it.

Time      Distance   Total Distance

Sec 0-1     16             16

Sec 1-2     48             64

Sec 2-3     80            144

Sec 3-4    112           256

Sec 4-5    144           400

 

Sec 0-1      11.2        11.2

Sec 1-2      33.6        44.8

Sec 2-3       56         100.8

Sec 3-4      78.4        179.2

Sec 4-5     100.8       280

 

Don't know how to put in a proper chart, hopefully that makes sense.

Yes, I was treating it like projectile motion, because I didn't know how long the lashing is in effect. You are going with 5 seconds then? That should work pretty well. I will be back in a few when I've worked out the math.

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Okay. Here are the numbers. Sorry for the double post.

 

Assume the Lashing lasts for 5 seconds. A Lashing dissolves the spiritual connection of the object with the planet, and reorients it in the direction of the Surgebinder's choosing. Assuming Scadrial has a surface gravity of 9.8 m/s/s, like Earth, then lashing someone straight up will cause them to accelerate upwards at 9.8 meters per second per second. After 5 seconds, the object would have a velocity of 49 m/s upwards. (I am using meters because the math is cleaner) By law of averages, the object would travel 122.5 meters during this time. As soon as the stormlight runs out, the object will be in free-fall. It took 5 seconds for the object to go from 0 (on the ground) to 49m/s. It will take the same amount of time for said object to decelerate to 0, over which time he will cover another 122.5 meters. At the top of his trajectory (when velocity = 0) the object will be 245 meters, or about 803 feet up. All of this occurred in 10 seconds. It will take another 7 seconds for the object to reach the ground. When it hits the ground, it will be going 69.2 meters/second, or about 154 miles per hour. Round trip takes 17 seconds. All this was done ignoring air resistance, so the the numbers would be a little smaller in reality.

 

On Roshar, during the 5 seconds on which the Lashing is in effect, the object would be given an upwards velocity of 35 meters per second. Once again, by law of averages, the total distance traveled would be 87.5 meters. It would take another 5 seconds for the object to reach the top of its arc, and it would cover another 87.5 meters, for a max height of 175 meters, or 574 feet. Again, it takes 10 seconds for the object to reach maximum. Also, it takes another 7 seconds for the object to fall back down. It's interesting to note that regardless of surface gravity, for an object given a single upwards lashing lasting 5 seconds, it will take 17 seconds to come back down. On Roshar, the object would have a final velocity of 49 m/s, or 109 miles per hour. Very lethal in both cases.

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Wax pushes Kaladin's spear away. Kaladin thinks "Oh, yeah?" and lashes Wax's guns away. Kaladin turns around and walks away cause he's not a bully.

I'm not sure why all the rules were put in place to take away Kaladin's advantages. That just means that you already think Kaladin would win. Why not blindfold him and tie him up as well?

We've never seen long ranged lashing achieved, so he basically has to grab the gun.

At which point he's probably won the fight anyhow.

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  • 3 weeks later...

We've never seen long ranged lashing achieved, so he basically has to grab the gun.

At which point he's probably won the fight anyhow.

Haven't we seen Sezth use a long ranged lashing in the Way of Kings?

 

I-9:  Death Wears White:  "Another group came at Seth from the side, and he drew Starlight into his hand and flung it in a Full Lashing across the floor at their feet."

 

I know this isn't Kaladin, but it is in the realm of possibility that he can use ranged lashings.

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Haven't we seen Sezth use a long ranged lashing in the Way of Kings?

 

I-9:  Death Wears White:  "Another group came at Seth from the side, and he drew Starlight into his hand and flung it in a Full Lashing across the floor at their feet."

 

I know this isn't Kaladin, but it is in the realm of possibility that he can use ranged lashings.

That's only the Full Lashing, pretty sure it explicitly states for the other two that it needs contact.

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But he could do a full lashing on a gun, jamming it so it did not work properly.

Maybe? He'd still have to be pretty close though, the Full Lashing seems to just be some kind of Stormlight-superglue so throwing it through the air is inaccurate at best.

Plus he'd get shot several times before he managed to do so.

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not weighing in one way or the other, but there have been times where Szeth put a full lashing on an object, and then lashed it down in the direction of his foe resulting it in hitting and sticking to the enemy or in one of the cases, sticking the enemy to the object, and the object to the wall. 

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